hackish 8 #1 June 21, 2009 This evening my car was stolen from SkyVenture Montreal. It had all my equipment in the back. That`s all stuff and hopefully I can get my house insurance to cover it. The real question now is that I had all my criteria for my B license completed. How do I prove that? How do I prove the 286 jumps I`ve accumulated so far? Not like you happen to keep a backup copy of your logbook anywhere... Hell I think my rigger seal might even have been there. I will know for sure when I can get back to Ottawa. I`ve been working very hard toward getting my B & C licenses so in a year or two I could do my tandem rating. What now? Do all those jumps just go in the garbage? -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #2 June 21, 2009 You can usually rebuild a large part of a log through manifest records...the rest is kind of a honor thing. I know people that didn't claim the numbers in a lost log but of course retained the experience and ratings. You seem like a honorable guy, do what YOU think is right. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedude325 0 #3 June 21, 2009 Buy a new one... I thought Canada was safe?! WTF?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #4 June 21, 2009 I keep a paper logbook *and* an electronic log. And backups of the electronic log. (Maybe I should keep the paper log in the car against the possibility of a fire, actually.) Losing anything sucks, though.Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #5 June 21, 2009 QuoteBuy a new one... I thought Canada was safe?! WTF?! He said Skyventure Montreal... Florida is closer to Canada ;) -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lippy 775 #6 June 21, 2009 QuoteBuy a new one... I thought Canada was safe?! WTF?!The English-speaking parts are safe. Once you start hearing nasal accents and smelling cheese, wine and BO everywhere you go, you gotta start watching your back!I got nuthin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zen_mtn_climber 0 #7 June 21, 2009 Electronic backup is an excellent suggestion! Starting to transcribe my logbook into a spreadsheet up at Google Docs right now. Thanks for the suggestion! Cheers, K ---------- No electrons were harmed in the creation of this post Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #8 June 21, 2009 Having had a day to reflect on things, even though the paper record was lost, my experience remains intact. It's just "stuff" and can be replaced - life goes on and I can still jump. The difficult point is that I was nearly 200 jumps away from being able to meet the minimum jump requirements for a tandem rating. If this means starting over and having to do 300 more jumps on top of the 200 remaining, I don't know if it's something I will continue to pursue. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #9 June 21, 2009 A ProTrack or Neptune, with software, make this a lot easier .. but Google Docs has the advantage of being backed up without your having to arrange for that yourself. Do they do versioning? Otherwise you might still lose everything to user error.Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #10 June 21, 2009 Have you asked your favourite instructor if he would sign your new logbook with "jump 1-286" as the first entry?Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shredder 0 #11 June 21, 2009 QuoteYou can usually rebuild a large part of a log through manifest records...the rest is kind of a honor thing. Definitely ask manifest to print out your account for you. We used to print out records from JumpRun all the time - one or two for lost log books - more for "I just don't have time to log every jump so I wait for a rainy day to do it!"Learn from the past - don't live in it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hackish 8 #12 June 22, 2009 Unfortunately the altitrack went missing with the car. I suppose anyone at my DZ would be more than happy to sign such an entry but fast forward another 1-2 years when I do 200 more jumps I might have some trouble convincing a tandem examiner that I have the proper number of prerequisite jumps. This is my main concern. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wayneflorida 0 #13 June 22, 2009 This won't help you but might give someone an idea. I just scan the log book pages into my computer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites likestojump 3 #14 June 22, 2009 QuoteHaving had a day to reflect on things, even though the paper record was lost, my experience remains intact. It's just "stuff" and can be replaced - life goes on and I can still jump. The difficult point is that I was nearly 200 jumps away from being able to meet the minimum jump requirements for a tandem rating. If this means starting over and having to do 300 more jumps on top of the 200 remaining, I don't know if it's something I will continue to pursue. -Michael that's a rather interesting statement to make. Do you feel that getting a Tandem rating with the minimal amount of jumps is better than with more experience, or do you simply feel that continuing skydiving is not worth or not affordable without getting a Tandem rating at 500 vs 800+ skydives ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JPWoerner 0 #15 June 22, 2009 QuoteThe real question now is that I had all my criteria for my B license completed. How do I prove that? How do I prove the 286 jumps I`ve accumulated so far? Not like you happen to keep a backup copy of your logbook anywhere... Hell I think my rigger seal might even have been there. I will know for sure when I can get back to Ottawa. I`ve been working very hard toward getting my B & C licenses so in a year or two I could do my tandem rating. What now? Do all those jumps just go in the garbage? -Michael Sorry to inform you, new USPA rules state that you have to start all over again. You have to go through your tandems, ground school, aff... Sucks for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #16 June 22, 2009 >Sorry to inform you, new USPA rules state that you have to start all over again. Funny guy! Just get a logbook, start logging again at jump 287, and fill it up. When it comes time to get your tandem rating give them that logbook (with all the appropriate signatures etc.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hackish 8 #17 June 22, 2009 QuoteDo you feel that getting a Tandem rating with the minimal amount of jumps is better than with more experience, or do you simply feel that continuing skydiving is not worth or not affordable without getting a Tandem rating at 500 vs 800+ skydives ? It was actually carefully worded to express exactly the meaning I wanted. Meeting the minimum jump requirements is only one of the criteria. From talking to enough tandem examiners I know they definitely don't give those ratings away. Pick a goal and work hard for it - that's my way. It's discouraging if you end up back at the starting line through no fault of your own. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,426 #18 June 22, 2009 >From talking to enough tandem examiners I know they definitely don't >give those ratings away. While that may well be true, from what I have seen it is very, very hard to fail a tandem course. It's doable, of course, but you have to be basically incompetent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brettski74 0 #19 June 22, 2009 Quote How do I prove the 286 jumps I`ve accumulated so far? Dropzone.com says you've only done 99 jumps! This advice probably comes too late, now, but keep a copy of your logbook if you value it. I scan mine and keep a backup copy in case of hard drive failure. Once you go for your C licence, you will have to send it in to CSPA and they will verify your requirements there. Start keeping a copy now and you won't have so much to copy when you have to trust it to Canada Post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sdctlc 0 #20 June 22, 2009 First of all get a new log book and start where you left off. But to "Fill in" the gaps ask for a print out or some sort of DZ record of the jumps you made. Most operations run a manifest program and can pull your records with them if you need. The number of DZ's that you have jumped at will dictate what you can get and maybe how easily you can. If most of your jumps are from your Home DZ then I am guessing you can get a good chunk back.. Good Luck... Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mdrejhon 8 #21 June 22, 2009 Copy of my reply on CSPA forums: ____ For the logbook, if it is any consolation, I have heard of ways to resolve the problem. It won't solve 100% (missing logbooked proof towards B license), but will solve a lot of other problems: 1. Ask all dropzones you've recently been to, to print out all the jumps you've ever made there. Many dropzones use a computer based system. Some even attach the time of the jump made to each of the date, if they were using a computerized manifest system. Other dropzones, may only use a paper system, but ask them to do their best (may need to pay them a 'paperwork' fee to give them incentive to go through this.) 2. Fill a new logbook (from jump 286 back to 201, at least -- you can for now skip jumps #1-200 until later, depending on how successfully you were able to go back to jump #200), based on the dates of the jumps that you made. 3. Talk to people you've jumped with, and have them re-sign the same jumps they signed last time. Often, they will also have a corresponding logbook entry in their logbook if they jumped with you, which is proof. These are useful for Coach/Instructor jumps. Now you've got a logbook that re-documents your jump #201 to #286 (Logbook Volume #2) .... It's not many, but should be pretty accurate if all the dropzones you have been to, had computer records, and you are able to track down all the coaches/instructors you jumped with. Most dropzones only ask for the most recent logbook volume (I have two logbooks - #1-250 and #251 to #500 - and often only need to show the latter volume). Now, that won't help your B license (Unless you were able to go far back enough).... but at least, you won't need to do much re-jumps to get your B. #201 - #286 is still 50 jumps, so as long as you manage to meet or repeat some jump requirements (accuracy landings, RW jumps, etc). For the B license I am sure the logbook examiner will understand with the explanation of stolen logbooks, and evaluate you based only on jump #201 onwards... (whether #201 is really #201 to them, or it's really #1 to them) __________ EDIT: If you manage to get dropzone printouts for all jumps, blank comment fields will be fine for many requirements -- i.e. 500 jump minimums for D license and tandem instructor ratings -- if you can supply the manifest evidence, and get the jumps signed by that dropzone, so at least you do have proof that the jumps were indeed, made, even if details are lost. Re-jumps will be needed for forgotten accuracy / RW / coach / etc jump details... (i.e. to meet B license) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mdrejhon 8 #22 June 22, 2009 BTW -- a fast way to back up your logbook is to take a digital camera photograph of every page spread. Useful if you don't have a scanner, or your scanner is a slow/older model. Do it outdoors in bright light, so the camera is fast and sharp. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybill 19 #23 June 22, 2009 Hi Hack, Sorry to hear about the thievery! As someone mentioned about getting a new log and picking up from the last jump. When I log jumps I go into good detail, names, dates places, discriptions of the formations etc. Lots of my slower-to log friends come to me to borrow my books to play "Catchup!!" Go to yiour friends and ask to pick thru their logs to get your back jumps. You can probably document a good many this way. Good luck and....SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites futuredivot 0 #24 June 22, 2009 Quote You seem like a honorable guy, do what YOU think is right. you mean sit down with a good friend and a bottle of scotch one night----kinda like I filled out the last oneYou are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cashmanimal 0 #25 June 22, 2009 I stopped filling out my logbook at jump 140, assuming all my electronics would be enough to fill it all in later. Of course over a couple years, all those electronics went missing. Fortunately for me, I've done my 450 jumps since then all at the same dropzone, so the ol' "Jumps 140-600" followed by an S&TA signature wasn't such a big deal, since he obviously has seen me every weekend and knows what I've been up to..It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
hackish 8 #12 June 22, 2009 Unfortunately the altitrack went missing with the car. I suppose anyone at my DZ would be more than happy to sign such an entry but fast forward another 1-2 years when I do 200 more jumps I might have some trouble convincing a tandem examiner that I have the proper number of prerequisite jumps. This is my main concern. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayneflorida 0 #13 June 22, 2009 This won't help you but might give someone an idea. I just scan the log book pages into my computer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #14 June 22, 2009 QuoteHaving had a day to reflect on things, even though the paper record was lost, my experience remains intact. It's just "stuff" and can be replaced - life goes on and I can still jump. The difficult point is that I was nearly 200 jumps away from being able to meet the minimum jump requirements for a tandem rating. If this means starting over and having to do 300 more jumps on top of the 200 remaining, I don't know if it's something I will continue to pursue. -Michael that's a rather interesting statement to make. Do you feel that getting a Tandem rating with the minimal amount of jumps is better than with more experience, or do you simply feel that continuing skydiving is not worth or not affordable without getting a Tandem rating at 500 vs 800+ skydives ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JPWoerner 0 #15 June 22, 2009 QuoteThe real question now is that I had all my criteria for my B license completed. How do I prove that? How do I prove the 286 jumps I`ve accumulated so far? Not like you happen to keep a backup copy of your logbook anywhere... Hell I think my rigger seal might even have been there. I will know for sure when I can get back to Ottawa. I`ve been working very hard toward getting my B & C licenses so in a year or two I could do my tandem rating. What now? Do all those jumps just go in the garbage? -Michael Sorry to inform you, new USPA rules state that you have to start all over again. You have to go through your tandems, ground school, aff... Sucks for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #16 June 22, 2009 >Sorry to inform you, new USPA rules state that you have to start all over again. Funny guy! Just get a logbook, start logging again at jump 287, and fill it up. When it comes time to get your tandem rating give them that logbook (with all the appropriate signatures etc.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #17 June 22, 2009 QuoteDo you feel that getting a Tandem rating with the minimal amount of jumps is better than with more experience, or do you simply feel that continuing skydiving is not worth or not affordable without getting a Tandem rating at 500 vs 800+ skydives ? It was actually carefully worded to express exactly the meaning I wanted. Meeting the minimum jump requirements is only one of the criteria. From talking to enough tandem examiners I know they definitely don't give those ratings away. Pick a goal and work hard for it - that's my way. It's discouraging if you end up back at the starting line through no fault of your own. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #18 June 22, 2009 >From talking to enough tandem examiners I know they definitely don't >give those ratings away. While that may well be true, from what I have seen it is very, very hard to fail a tandem course. It's doable, of course, but you have to be basically incompetent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #19 June 22, 2009 Quote How do I prove the 286 jumps I`ve accumulated so far? Dropzone.com says you've only done 99 jumps! This advice probably comes too late, now, but keep a copy of your logbook if you value it. I scan mine and keep a backup copy in case of hard drive failure. Once you go for your C licence, you will have to send it in to CSPA and they will verify your requirements there. Start keeping a copy now and you won't have so much to copy when you have to trust it to Canada Post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #20 June 22, 2009 First of all get a new log book and start where you left off. But to "Fill in" the gaps ask for a print out or some sort of DZ record of the jumps you made. Most operations run a manifest program and can pull your records with them if you need. The number of DZ's that you have jumped at will dictate what you can get and maybe how easily you can. If most of your jumps are from your Home DZ then I am guessing you can get a good chunk back.. Good Luck... Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #21 June 22, 2009 Copy of my reply on CSPA forums: ____ For the logbook, if it is any consolation, I have heard of ways to resolve the problem. It won't solve 100% (missing logbooked proof towards B license), but will solve a lot of other problems: 1. Ask all dropzones you've recently been to, to print out all the jumps you've ever made there. Many dropzones use a computer based system. Some even attach the time of the jump made to each of the date, if they were using a computerized manifest system. Other dropzones, may only use a paper system, but ask them to do their best (may need to pay them a 'paperwork' fee to give them incentive to go through this.) 2. Fill a new logbook (from jump 286 back to 201, at least -- you can for now skip jumps #1-200 until later, depending on how successfully you were able to go back to jump #200), based on the dates of the jumps that you made. 3. Talk to people you've jumped with, and have them re-sign the same jumps they signed last time. Often, they will also have a corresponding logbook entry in their logbook if they jumped with you, which is proof. These are useful for Coach/Instructor jumps. Now you've got a logbook that re-documents your jump #201 to #286 (Logbook Volume #2) .... It's not many, but should be pretty accurate if all the dropzones you have been to, had computer records, and you are able to track down all the coaches/instructors you jumped with. Most dropzones only ask for the most recent logbook volume (I have two logbooks - #1-250 and #251 to #500 - and often only need to show the latter volume). Now, that won't help your B license (Unless you were able to go far back enough).... but at least, you won't need to do much re-jumps to get your B. #201 - #286 is still 50 jumps, so as long as you manage to meet or repeat some jump requirements (accuracy landings, RW jumps, etc). For the B license I am sure the logbook examiner will understand with the explanation of stolen logbooks, and evaluate you based only on jump #201 onwards... (whether #201 is really #201 to them, or it's really #1 to them) __________ EDIT: If you manage to get dropzone printouts for all jumps, blank comment fields will be fine for many requirements -- i.e. 500 jump minimums for D license and tandem instructor ratings -- if you can supply the manifest evidence, and get the jumps signed by that dropzone, so at least you do have proof that the jumps were indeed, made, even if details are lost. Re-jumps will be needed for forgotten accuracy / RW / coach / etc jump details... (i.e. to meet B license) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #22 June 22, 2009 BTW -- a fast way to back up your logbook is to take a digital camera photograph of every page spread. Useful if you don't have a scanner, or your scanner is a slow/older model. Do it outdoors in bright light, so the camera is fast and sharp. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 19 #23 June 22, 2009 Hi Hack, Sorry to hear about the thievery! As someone mentioned about getting a new log and picking up from the last jump. When I log jumps I go into good detail, names, dates places, discriptions of the formations etc. Lots of my slower-to log friends come to me to borrow my books to play "Catchup!!" Go to yiour friends and ask to pick thru their logs to get your back jumps. You can probably document a good many this way. Good luck and....SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
futuredivot 0 #24 June 22, 2009 Quote You seem like a honorable guy, do what YOU think is right. you mean sit down with a good friend and a bottle of scotch one night----kinda like I filled out the last oneYou are only as strong as the prey you devour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cashmanimal 0 #25 June 22, 2009 I stopped filling out my logbook at jump 140, assuming all my electronics would be enough to fill it all in later. Of course over a couple years, all those electronics went missing. Fortunately for me, I've done my 450 jumps since then all at the same dropzone, so the ol' "Jumps 140-600" followed by an S&TA signature wasn't such a big deal, since he obviously has seen me every weekend and knows what I've been up to..It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
