Need a good instructor...

[RustyOats 0]

I need a good AFF instructor. I have 4 successful AFF jumps(last summer), 200 hours in C172’s, 30 or so aerobatic flights and a tail wheel endorsement for a Catabria from a few years ago and 35 minutes of tunnel time recently and a little paraglider time. Skydiving is my absolute favorite and I am committed to getting at least an A license in the near future.

After the first 4 AFF jumps I had to stop and save some money to continue and I read too much of this stupid website in the mean time and got freaked out enough to actually think about it and seek out top notch training. The DZ I was going to was really more about turning out numbers than remembering students names or actually training them outside of ‘put this on and jump out here, and arch.’

I know the risk. I know I could die with the best training and best gear available(just heading off a few posts I know would appear, see I do read this site too much ;). And I am OK with that. But it’s no reason to go half assed on training.

I’ll admit I have developed a bit of a phobia and obsession at the same time. That seems to be quite normal, I just want to go about it all the right way. The obsession came from the first 4 jumps and the phobia came from knowing too much too soon after reading this damn website too much while saving up the money. I’ll admit I am a little gun shy now but more than capable of jumping again when I find the suitable circumstances which are not available in my state. I have a bit over a grand set aside for my first few jumps back in the air and need to know where to go. Anyone want to help out a new guy with a huge enthusiasm for the sport and a major willingness to learn safely? Where are the great AFF instructors? I’ll pay extra for a little peace of mind. I’ll travel to wherever there is an experienced, safety conscience instructor willing to take a few extra minutes for my nerves at a DZ with a good airplane and good gear. I just don’t want sub par instruction to learn something as dangerous as it seems and as dangerous as you all say it is or some asshat tying a fucking windsock to my rig for laughs.

I started paragliding to get a fix and found out it’s a lame version of skydiving with more risk. It is just easier because I know less about it. OK yeah it’s easier because you jump off a hill instead of a plane hahaha but I have done both and would way rather spend my cash skydiving.

So, you have enough money and want the best possible Skydiving training without putting money or idiocy in front of safety, who or where do you go to?

PS, I’m sure reading all (well most) or your posts on this site will make me a much safer skydiver and I am very thankful for you time to write it all for me to read. BillVon, Davelepka, NickDG, Mojosparky, Brian Germain, Bodypilot, the SD Radio peeps are just a few that need thanking and many others have shaped the way I think about things already but I need an instructor in real life to show me how to not be a dumbass and learn the right way. Been there before? How did you resolve it and finally get in the air comfortably? WHERE SHOULD I GO??

Thank You All!!!

[RustyOats 0]

If you didn't want to read the long story I understand. Basically asking where to go if the insturction close to you sucks and you are going to fly somewhere for trainning, where would it be and why?

[thedude325 0]

There is a reason Gold Coast is number one in the dropzone section...

[Ketia0 0]

Skydive Spaceland has some of the best instructors.. Thier safety record is awesome, and they ahve thier own AFF progression program. You can get your license in a week, or spread it out.

"In this game you can't predict the future. You just have to play the odds. "-JohnMitchell

[tkhayes 126]

pick me pick me

[Andy9o8 0]

There's a cornucopia of outstanding AFF instructors throughout the US, at DZs of every size. If you want a meaningful recommendation, tell us where you live so we can narrow it down by region.

(tkhayes: )

[CazmoDee 3]

Zhills, Zhills

I'm behind the bar at Sloppy Joe's....See ya in the Keys!

Muff 4313

[BIGUN 1,055]

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The obsession came from the first 4 jumps and the phobia came from knowing too much too soon after reading this damn website too much while saving up the money.

Is this the oxymoron test?

Look, instead of requesting information for a safe and conscientious Instructor of which (as demonstrated) can send you to the four corners of planet Earth... Of which your saved up grand could easily be spent on fuel or airfare. Your profile has no information. If you could at least tell us the region you're in, perhaps we could then localize your search through an informal PM process and when you get a name that fills the bucket more than others, then go have a sitdown discussion with that Instructor and interview him/her.

Share with him/her this page, Treat the situation as if you were buying a new car and do external homework, treat it like a job interview and do some research on the company to see if it's where you want to work (play - spend your money). It's not only a financial investment, but an investment in your future. The fact that you're reaching out is a positive step, but the bottom line is you may find yourself in a popularity contest instead of making your own decisions based on face-time information.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[lippy 773]

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There's a cornucopia of outstanding AFF instructors throughout the US, at DZs of every size. If you want a meaningful recommendation, tell us where you live so we can narrow it down by region.

(tkhayes: )

cornucopia?!?!?! This here website ain't no place for book words!

I got nuthin

[RustyOats 0]

Here's the real story,

I had a bad experience the last time I went out to my local DZ (with my assigned instructor, didn't jump because of it) and don't want to repeat that experience, especially after traveling for it. After last time I am not going to be very trusting of the random guy that calls my name when I get there, bad things happen at good DZ's. I would like recommendations for a bad assed instructor that would be willing to train me and isn't a dumbass. I don't know anyone I trust to recommend one to me in real life because I am basically a wuffo so this is the best I got. Figured I'd give it a shot before I just picked some place at random.

I have read enough of your words to know a few instructors have been downright dangerous in the past and even half of you think the AFFI rating is too easy to get. I have to at least TRY to get at least the best training I can or at least avoid idiots. I have no way of knowing which I'll get if I just roll out to a DZ and jump with the first AFFI that talks to me. This is most likely the most dangerous thing I will ever do, so why skimp on the homework?

I am putting way too much thought into this aren't I?

Could anyone just tell me why a certain DZ kicks ass and I will be totally happy and as safe as possible?

I'll go there and if I die due to poor instruction it's on you



Thanks for replying to a kind of unanswerable question And I know this degree of caution is unusual, it is for me too. I want to jump but I want to feel good about it. If something happens after that then at least I know I did everything I could.

I wish you could pick just instructors instead of schools. I guess you just have to show up, go with who they give you and hope for the best!

Ya'll have a nice Sunday!!

[RustyOats 0]

-------Your profile has no information. If you could at least tell us the region you're in-----------

I would say where I am but I am going to fly to wherever I go anyway. I have already bagged on the DZ close to me and don't want to make it public which one it is. I fly for cheap so no biggie. I'll have to jump here after training elsewhere and don't want to be the guy that trashed their DZ online. PM me if you want to know where it is. I hope that makes sense. Thanks!

[JohnMitchell 14]

How does a student with a low knowledge base differentiate between the good and bad instructors prior to being taught by them and jumping with them? What qualities are they looking for? Is it patience, thoroughness, competence, ability to convey knowledge accurately? All of the above?

With the current shortage of skydiving instructors, I don't know of any employer that can be too picky, although most DZ's do have some standards. The good and bad instruction that I've seen cuts across all demographics of instructors, young, old, big DZ, little DZ. I think attitude is one of the biggest factors, and that tends to trickle down from the top. Talk to the chief instructors or DZ operators about their student program. See if you can read between the lines of how they treat their students. Good luck to you.

I know that when I started I had some good instructors and some poor ones. This realization started me down the path to getting my ratings. I wanted to repay the good ones and hopefully dilute the bad ones.

[4dbill 0]

One of my employees took the entire AFF course last week at the Parachute Center at Acampo / Lodi, CA. The entire course was $1100, which included a working tandem and 7 levels of AFF, INCLUDING video! He finished the course in just three days and did well. You can watch the entire video at,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYbpR7rwugQ

Not only did I give him three paid days off for the course, but I am now going to help him get his A license asap. Am I the world's greatest boss or what?
Enough about me, and seriously, I am rooting for Lodi because,
1. They have many high quality instructors.
2. Weather is almost always perfect, before the rainy season.
3. Very fast turn around to the altitude.
4. Lots of student rigs.
5. Bill Dause (DZO) - he gets it done.

Lodi, however, is not USPA affiliated, which does not make it unsafe. You can read all about Lodi and Bill Dause on forum, and almost nobody has anything bad to say about the DZ.
MAYBE Bill Dause will give you a discount since you already have a few jumps. Again, this is a MAYBE, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Even if you have to pay for the entire course, the price cannot be beat, especially since every jump includes a video, which I think is an absolute must for each level.
No matter what DZ you choose, good luck.
If you decide to try Lodi, PM me, and I can probably help you with transportation at least. Heck, I'll even volunteer to be on your first 3 way.

4DBill

[skyh2omedic 0]

Contact Rob Laidlaw at Skydive University at Skydive Deland. His team are specialist at challenging circumstances. They are professional, relaxed and low key. Good luck.

"You can't teach what you don't know and you can't lead where you won't go"

[Andy9o8 0]

Because, despite our suggestions, you won't tell us what region you live in, this thread already seems, as someone else has said, like it's becoming a popularity contest. I don't really think that does you much good.

[piisfish 135]

go at any DZ, most instructors will be able to teach you something

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[peregrinerose 0]

There are good DZs across the US, and everyone on here will tell you that their home DZ or the place they jump often or the place that they trained is
'the best'.

Exactly what was the scenario that you faced on your fourth jump that was the problem? Did you bring it up with the instructor or DZO? How was the problem resolved? Even once you get through AFF, where do you plan to jump? How do you plan to get from AFF to an A license if you are travelling to a distant dropzone for AFF?

You say that you want an instructor that will spend an extra few minutes dealing with your nerves... that tells me that you need a personality match with you and makes me wonder if a personality conflict was the issue at your previous DZ. You come across in your post as very high maintanence, so you might want to do a little introspection as well.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[skymama 35]

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Contact Rob Laidlaw at Skydive University at Skydive Deland. His team are specialist at challenging circumstances. They are professional, relaxed and low key. Good luck.

+1

Even if you don't go with Skydive U or Skydive Deland, I'll put a vote in for the dropzones in Fl in you're planning on starting this soon. Starting next weekend, the weather should start to be very pleasant for the next few months, planes will be back from traveling to northern dropzones and the dz's will be turning loads quickly. It's the best time of the year for skydiving in FL!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[skybytch 259]

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I'll go there and if I die due to poor instruction it's on you

Come to our dz. We're all really crappy instructors who only do the teaching thing so we can make money and log tail...err I mean jumps. As such, if you aren't a hot young thing or willing to give us lots of big tips, you'll spend most of your time on the ground while the instructors go do tandems. Most of us are drunk or high or both at all times. We don't bother with teaching canopy stuff like "patterns" cuz the sky is big and you'll probably never need to know any of that stuff. All of the student gear is from the early 1990s,except for that one rig. We encourage our newbies to buy the smallest gear possible cuz big rigs aren't nearly as sexy and one of the instructors is dating a local EMT who needs the practice. The aircraft (most of which were purchased with laundered drug money) are maintained according to no schedule at all by a guy who used to work on farm equipment until he found the dz - we pay him a lot better than the farmer did. But it's okay cuz the pilots are all former crop dusters who are real good at crash landings.

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I am putting way too much thought into this aren't I?

Yes. Keep it up and you'll talk yourself out of jumping completely. If you want to find "the best" instructor/dz, go visit a few actual dropzones, check out the facilities and aircraft, talk to the instructors and make your decision based on your own research instead of relying on the lies... err I mean opinions of people you don't know on an internet forum.

A few things to think/ask about -

Does the dz teach from the ISP or do they use the original AFF progression? Not saying one is better than the other, but from what I've seen, those who teach from the ISP end up with novice jumpers who don't scare the shit out of everyone else in the pattern.

How many AFF jumps has the instructor done and how long have they been instructing? Not saying more or longer is a guarantee of quality, but the guy with 1500 AFF jumps is more likely to be able to deal with shit happening in the air than the guy with 20 AFF jumps is (and this is coming from an AFFI with 20 AFF jumps).

Does the instructor also do tandems? Not saying that those who don't also do tandems are better instructors, but they will probably be more willing and able to spend however much time you need.

[Cutaway68 4]

If you have been lurking these forums, then you must have come across the following threads.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3667753;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3669098;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

The reason I am pointing these out is that they are proof that even the most experienced/liked instructor is very able to surprise you with random acts of ignorance/complacency. Also, realize that most of these types of incidents are covered over for the good ol' boy that "just made a mistake". I am not saying that either of these people are bad, just that anyone can surprise you when you least expect it.

An instructor that just got their rating may have the mind set that this isn't just another student and can fall back on a fresh set of training aids while they may not be prepared for the unusual circumstance that a seasoned instructor may have seen before or may be complacent and doing a free/paid student slot. Oh, and if you are female, your instructor may be distracted by trying to impress you.

I am aware that what I have just stated may piss some people off, but I am not posting to make friends. I am just pointing out the obvious.

As has been said before, perhaps you just need to find someone that you TRUST.

Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!!
The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can."
Be fun, have safe.

[NWFlyer 2]

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I guess you just have to show up, go with who they give you and hope for the best!

No you don't. Every instructor is going to have a different style, just as every student is going to have a different style. The best instructors can adapt their style to the student's style, but even then, sometimes it's just not ever going to click and the student is perhaps better off working with someone else. Have you talked to whoever's in charge of the student program to see if perhaps you could plan to work with someone else? Have you even tried to work it out or are you just ranting on the internet because of one bad day? Most DZs will be willing to work with you to get you through the student program comfortably - you did three jumps with (at least) two other instructors - perhaps if you're willing to be flexible on time, the DZ would be willing to work with you to get you with those (or other) instructors.

From what you've posted on here you had one bad jump with one instructor. You've given us absolutely zero detail as to why you felt it was so horrible, even though it could have been any number of things from a difference in personal style, to a communication barrier, to a good instructor having an absolutely shitty day, or a person who really shouldn't be instructing, or something else entirely.

At any rate, if you felt like a number at the DZ, it's perhaps not the right place for you. But with exceedingly vague information, none of us can tell you what's right for you. You feel like you knew enough at four jumps to know that your local DZ isn't right for you; if so, you probably know enough to go check out somewhere else and find something that's a better fit.

[RustyOats 0]

I think I may have made my question out to seem more serious than I meant. I just wanted to hear some debate about different DZ's and their training philosophies and maybe find an experienced and competent instructor that would be willing to train me. I came on here because I don't know one DZ or instructor from the next and had a shitty experience at the only DZ close to me so I did not want to go to the trouble of flying out of state for more of the same. That's why I asked. I might as well ask around if I'm going to go to the trouble, you know?

I guess I was wondering if anywhere offered training more like GA flight schools do, having a little ground school before each jump and working with the same instructor through the entire course. Just makes a bit more sense to me. But, I'd be just fine to get in student rotation at a good school with competent instructors that like to teach and provide good gear so I can feel good about managing the risk as well as I can and feel good about spending my money with them, that's all I was asking. I know everyone has their favorite DZ and there isn't one that is "the best" Really I just wanted to hear some debate about their training programs so I could make up my mind.

Nothing awful happened where I went. I just decided getting trained there wasn't worth what they charged and didn't feel good about it. The decision came after I showed up and asked to jump with the guy I did my first AFF jumps with. After 3 hours of sitting around I got assigned to someone else which wasn't a big deal. He gave me a 10 minute refresher which seemed a little brief for not having jumped in a full year during which I asked a few questions that were met with one word answers. Next he says we are on a 5 minute call and to put this on, holding up a rig. I ask about a gear check and he says he already did it and we didn't really have time to go over it. I tell him I'd like to at least check it with my own eyes, so he drops the rig, gives an exasperated sigh and stares at me to do a gear check that hasn't been explained to me in a year. At this point the whole load is staring at us waiting for the stupid noob to hurry up. At that point i would have felt pretty dumb jumping gear I didn't even know how to check and I hate making people wait on me so I said so, it was the last load (I showed up a like 1pm) so we shook hands, i said thanks but no thanks and then I drove home, defeated. The entire interaction was like 15 minutes so I don't think I was being high maintenance asking to go over a gear check, I was going to jump out of a fucking flying plane with it and I didn't even know this dudes name who checked it. I'll admit I knew basically how to do a gear check from reading about it on here but I wanted to at least be shown once by someone in real life with a real rating.

The next day I spoke with JM #2 from my first 4 jumps who happens to be a loose acquaintance from high school and doesn't really teach there anymore because he says the DZO treats his employees like shit, the place sucks and a few other thing that made me think twice about spending my money and risking my life there. Would you go back after that?

After that experience I figured it would be cool save up a little more money and make a trip out of state to finish up AFF and hopefully a little beyond. So I was asking for peoples opinions on where to go and why. I'm not concerned with getting a great deal. I just want a safe and friendly place to train, warm with a bar would be nice too.

Thanks if anyone has any thoughts on that. Have a good day!

[JohnMitchell 14]

Thanks for the clarification. Ten minutes is not a lot of review time after a year out. Five minutes is not a long call time to get an AFF student ready. Was this to be a level 3 with 2 JM's? Did you walk through and practice the dive flow during the 10 minute review?

I know I've been rushed more than once when working with students. It's one of the realities when you work at a commercial dropzone and it's something every instructor needs to learn to handle without compromising the student's safety, training, or peace of mind. I like to think that I would have shown you a quick gear check. Takes very little time if the aad is set.

I hope you can get your money back.