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What Can We Do About Skyride II

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I
If you do not service areas you don't have affiliates what is this?

http://www.1800skyride.com/Skydiving/Clarksville/

Totally fake and misleading and currently posted as of 10:28 am 17 NOV 2007.

Go ahead and call me a liar again, but the web page is yours.



Well, at this address, http://1800skyride.com/Skydiving/Sandy/ they have a site for skydiving in Sandy, Utah (one of the most populated suburbs of Salt Lake City) where there not only is no DZ, there isn't even an airstrip. And never will be due to the corridor for the international airport.
Or there's http://www.utahskydiving.com/ that looks an awful lot like another DZ's website in Utah. Skyride have no affilation with anyone in Utah. Worse, when I called to "book" a tandem, I couldn't find out where Skyride wanted to send me. A Skyride rep here on DZ.com said they'd send people to Las Vegas, 7 hours away. Ooops...Boise has an affiliate, and it's only 3 hours away. And people in SLC would pass within two miles of three DZ's on their way to Boise, or pass within fifty miles of five DZ's on their way to Las Vegas.

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Another thing that makes me angry is the fact that skyride has pretty much ruined the chance that a LEGITIMATE skydiving booking agency might have to get into the market.

A couple years ago i was researching business opportunities and had considered trying to start a skydiving booking agency. I found skyride as part of my research. And of course, all of the negatives that came with that discovery.

Say i started my own booking agency...how would i disassociate myself from skyride? not to mention, i'm SURE i'd have to deal with unscrupulous tactics on their part to drive me out of the market (or never let me in in the first place). So the effects of skyride are not only immedate.

Many people on here have said a real booking agency would be great, but in the current market, skyride has ruined any possibility of it being realistic.
Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

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IF there's an affiliate in Boise, where is it? There are several DZ's in the Boise area, although not in Boise itself, but none of the local places are listed on the list of DZ's that accept Skyride. It seems like such a shoddy business that I really hope neither of the DZ's in my area would be involved.
"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

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Tell you what, come to The Farm this weekend and you can meet Chris Martins widow and call her a liar to her face. Or call Mike Mullins, he knows about this. You can call him a liar too.



Me too. >:( I called when it was first discovered and somehow ended up at Skyride.

I think there is/was a "Spyder" involved in all this too.

j
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

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Here is the list that was sent to me by Skyride. The list just contained the Names of the DZ`s that accept skyride. I Looked up each DZ to get the actual Location (With help from Lauralisous). If I made any mistakes please let me know.

This is the List of Dropzones that accept Skyride. If you jump at one of these Dropzones, Please talk to your DZO.

PLEASE PM any correction that need to be made.


Alaska
Alaska Skydiving - Anchorage, AK

Alabama
Alabama Skydiving Center – Pratville, AL

Arkansas
Skydive Little Rock - Little Rock, AR
Skyranch Aviation Inc Siloam Springs AR
(They have Skyride Warning on their web page but are included on the Official Skyride vendors list. Is there another Skyranch Aviation? )

Arizona
Desert Skydiving – Buckeye, AZ
Phoenix Area Skydiving - Casa Grande, AZ


California
Adventure Center Skydiving, Inc – Hollister, CA
Bay Area Skydiving – Byron, CA
Madera Parachute Center – Madera, CA
Parachute Center - Lodi, CA
Perris Valley Skydiving – Perris, CA
Skydive California City - California City, CA
Skydive Lake Elsinore - Lake Elsinore, CA
Skydive Monterey Bay – Marina, CA
Skydive San Diego – Jamul. CA
Skydive Taft Inc. – Taft, CA


Colorado
Colorado Sky Sports – Brush, CO
High Sky Adventures - Canon City, CO
Skydive the Rockies - Colorado Springs, CO


Florida
Florida Skydiving Center - Lake Wales, FL
Skydive Jacksonville – Jacksonville, FL
Skydive Space Center – Titusville, FL
Skydive Tampa Bay – Mulberry, FL
Miami Skydive Center – Homestead, FL


Georgia
Atlanta Skydiving Center – Cedartown, GA

Hawaii
Pacific International Skydiving Center – Waialua, HI
Skydive Hawaii – Waialua, HI


Iowa
Paradise Skydivers – Vinton, IA

Idaho
Skydive Idaho – Meridian, ID
Skydown Sport Skydiving – Caldwell, ID


Illinois
Parachutes Over Carmi – Carmi, IL
Chicagoland Skydiving Center – Hinckley, IL


Indiana
Skydive Greensburg – Greensburg, IN
Skydive Wayne County – Richmond, IN


Kentucky
Skydive Kentucky – Elizabethtown, KY

Louisiana
Skydive N'Awlins – Slidell, LA

Massachusetts
Airborne Adventures – Northampton, MA

Maryland
Skydive Maryland – Ridgely, MD

Maine
Skydive New England – Lebanon, ME

Michigan
Capital City Skydiving – Fowlerville, MI
Skydive Harbor Springs - Harbor Springs, MI
Wild Wind Skydivers – Saginaw, MI


Minnesota
Skydive Adventure – Luverne, MN

Missouri
Freefall Express Skydiving - Missouri Nixa, MO
Missouri River Valley Skydivers – Henrietta, MO
Skydive Rolla – Rolla, MO
Skydive Lake of the Ozarks - Osage Beach, MO
Closed?

North Carolina
Carolina Sky Sports – Franklinton, NC
Skydive Walterboro – Walterboro, NC


Nevada
Sin City Skydiving – Jean, NV
Skydive Las Vegas - Boulder City, NV
Skydive Mesquite LLC – Mesquite, NV


New York
Duanesburg Skydiving – Duanesburg, NY

Ohio
Canton Air Sports – Alliance, OH
Cleveland Parachute Center – Garrettsville, OH


Oregon
Eugene Skydivers – Cresswell, OR
Skydive Beaver Oaks - Eagle Creek, OR (if same as Skydive Eagle Creek?)
Skydive Oregon, Inc. – Molalla, OR


Pennsylvania
Skydive Pennsylvania – Mercer, PA
Skydive Philadelphia – Perkasie, PA
Sky’s the Limit East – Stroudsburg, PA


Texas
Capitol Skydiving – Coupland, TX
Eagle Flight Skydiving - Granbury, TX
East Texas Skydiving Club – Gladewater, TX
North Texas Skydiving Center - Caddo Mills, TX
Skydive Cowtown – Rhome, TX
Skydive Dallas – Whitewright, TX
Skydive Smithville – Smithville, TX
Skydive Spaceland – Rosharon, TX
Skydive Temple – Salado, TX
Texas Freefall – Stephenville, TX


Washington
Skydive Toledo – Toledo, WA

Wisconsin
Skydive Midwest – Sturtevant, WI
Skydive Superior – Superior, WI


Canada
Skydive Winnipeg – Gimli, Manitoba
Niagara Skydive Center – Dunnville, ON
Skydive Toronto – Cookstown, ON
Parachutisme Nouvel Air Inc. – Farnham, QU


Unknown
Arkansas Air Sports - Could not find
Austin Skydiving - Could not find
PC Skydiving - Could not find
Blue Sky Adventures - Closed
Sky Dive Waynesville – Closed

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J,

Thank you for sharing that information. It appears as though Skyride is making great strides in expanding the availability of dropzones across the country. That is great news.

The support so far is great.

Now, what do you suggest we do to make that list even longer?

Remember - I am not affiliated with Skyride in any way shape or form. I for one just realize what they are doing is not necessarily a bad thing. With a little work, I think we all will soon benefit from their services.

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Well, Skydive Walterboro is in South Carolina and about as far away from North Carolina as you can get without leaving the state....so that puts it right next door in Skyride terms:S
I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried

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I for one just realize what they are doing is not necessarily a bad thing.



What in fact are they doing that is so helpful?

They're not advertising any differently than a regular DZ would. If they were, then yes, they might be bringing new business into the market.

It seems that all they do is create fake websites, and optimize their results from search engines. The people who end up with Skyride are already looking for a DZ online.

If Skyride wasn't cock-blocking the real DZ websites, these people would simply find the website for a legitimate DZ in their area. They would then receive better service, and get their jump for a lower price.

This is where Skyride is a scam. They don't bring anything to the table, they just take things away from the table.

If they were running some national TV spots with a cute dog or a garden gnome, then yes, they would be doing something helpful, but that is not the case.

How do we now or in the future benefit from this?

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I for one just realize what they are doing is not necessarily a bad thing.



What in fact are they doing that is so helpful?

They're not advertising any differently than a regular DZ would. If they were, then yes, they might be bringing new business into the market.

It seems that all they do is create fake websites, and optimize their results from search engines. The people who end up with Skyride are already looking for a DZ online.

If Skyride wasn't cock-blocking the real DZ websites, these people would simply find the website for a legitimate DZ in their area. They would then receive better service, and get their jump for a lower price.

This is where Skyride is a scam. They don't bring anything to the table, they just take things away from the table.

If they were running some national TV spots with a cute dog or a garden gnome, then yes, they would be doing something helpful, but that is not the case.

How do we now or in the future benefit from this?



Perhaps the non-participating dropzones should learn how to advertise and market their services a little better. Business is generally had on a first come first serve basis. Dont bitch and moan about this just because skyride is perhaps a little bit better at running a business than some.

Hell, perhaps skyride should start offering a marketing 101 course to DZO's. You guys could probably learn a thing or two.

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Remember - I am not affiliated with Skyride in any way shape or form. I for one just realize what they are doing is not necessarily a bad thing. With a little work, I think we all will soon benefit from their services.


I agree with your first sentence, the *concept* of what they're doing isn't a bad concept. If they'd stop the practice of falsifying dropzones, misleading the public, charging for normal practices as though they were "extras," strong-arming DZ's, stealing/rerouting phone numbers, illegally using photographs, and began to present an integrous and honest face, I can see a national booking service in the skydiving industry working very well. I suspect most rational people would agree with that concept.

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Remember - I am not affiliated with Skyride in any way shape or form. I for one just realize what they are doing is not necessarily a bad thing. With a little work, I think we all will soon benefit from their services.


I agree with your first sentence, the *concept* of what they're doing isn't a bad concept. If they'd stop the practice of falsifying dropzones, misleading the public, charging for normal practices as though they were "extras," strong-arming DZ's, stealing/rerouting phone numbers, illegally using photographs, and began to present an integrous and honest face, I can see a national booking service in the skydiving industry working very well. I suspect most rational people would agree with that concept.



There IS already a national booking service and it IS working very well. Come on people, learn to think outside the box. If you cant beat 'em (which you obviously can't) then join em.

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The ONLY people who have any right to be upset about skyride are the DZO's that think they are affected by their practices. Once again, I say "think" because I truly do not believe skyride has in any way shape or form harmed anybodies business whatsoever. If it has done anything, it has improved the industry and the business itself as a whole.

All you gunslinging skydivers have no business whatsoever commenting on this issue.

Perhaps USPA should use some of its funds to hire a mediator in order to discuss a partnership with skyride. Now that would make more sense, potentially produce some results, and put an end to all the crying once and for all.

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>>Hell, perhaps skyride should start offering a marketing 101 course to DZO's. You guys could probably learn a thing or two.<<

When I started jumping in the 1970s people just picked up the Yellow Pages and easily found the closest DZ.

And I'm not sure all this "marketing" has been good for skydiving. Compared to today, there were less student starts back then, but more experienced and active jumpers overall.

All we're doing now is burning through the available pool of one-jump-wonders with a quickie tandem in exchange for making a few DZOs rich. In the meantime potential jumpers who don't need "marketing" the ones you couldn’t keep away with a gun, are also getting the fast shuffle and leaving the DZ disillusioned . . .

NickD :)BASE 194

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[
There IS already a national booking service and it IS working very well. Come on people, learn to think outside the box. If you cant beat 'em (which you obviously can't) then join em.



If thinking "outside the box" should indicate embracing deceit, fraud, theft, and unethical business practice... the majority of the world needs to change the meaning of the phrase.

Good marketing has nothing to do with deceit. At least the late night cable shows offer disclaimers when they claim their product will take 50lbs from your belly.

Everyone in the sport of skydiving has a right (and responsibility) to comment on Skyride's practices, just as NASCAR took after Skyride for the benefit of their membership. Skyride and their lack of ethics in our industry affect how we're viewed from a broad public perspective.
Additionally, if their business practices are not fair (and given what I heard first-hand at PIA last Feb, the majority of DZ's feel Skyride is unfair/unethical), it makes it difficult for a DZ to market themselves fairly.
Competition is a good thing. Skyride pits a DZ against themselves.

Perhaps you're not a skydiver, as if you were, it would be hard to accept that you're OK with "extra altitude", "turbine/big airplane", "pilot chute" "weather insurance" and other spurious fees. Why not add a "good looking TI" fee, or "guaranteed opening" fee?
How about a "beautiful sunset" fee?
"Comfortable harness" fee?
"Stand up landing" fee?
"15 minutes to altitude guarantee" fee?
"Tip the TI/Videographer in advance" fee?
Better still a "guaranteed to be within 2 hour drive" fee?

You've seen the list; for example, there are eight Skyride websites for New Mexico and Utah. Yet there are no DZ's in either state that accept Skyride coupons. I guess they wouldn't sell the "2 hour drive" fee in those states.

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Out of curiosity, what effect do you think it would have if skyride went out of business (or got out of the skydiving business) tomorrow and all their websites and ads disappeared instantly?

Would the number of tandems decrease? Would the amount of money spent at dropzones decrease?

What exactly is the benefit to skydiving, in general, of the existance of skyride?

Dave

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All you gunslinging skydivers have no business whatsoever commenting on this issue.



This coming from someone who refuses to fill out his profile.

Sorry, but maybe you have no business whatsoever further commenting on this issue until you do it. :|
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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The ONLY people who have any right to be upset about skyride are the DZO's that think they are affected by their practices.



Don't think so! What about the instructors, packers, and pilots? What about the person working manifest that has to explain to someone that shows up with a skyride cert that they don't take them, but yes they are the closest dropzone to city xyz and then tell them they probably won't get their money back and to use the cert they are going to have to drive another 200-400 miles because they were taken by liars and cheats.

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All you gunslinging skydivers have no business whatsoever commenting on this issue.



and you do because....?

j
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

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All you gunslinging skydivers have no business whatsoever commenting on this issue.



Ironically, however, it seems that you have granted yourself permission to judge any and all opinions opposite your own whilst you stand diligently on the fantail of the Titanic playing your violin. :S

All opinions are welcome here, as long as they are within the boundaries of the Forum Rules. That's why your opinions are here - opposing views bring balance to the entire discussion. whatever form they take or function they serve.
Arrive Safely

John

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You know, when I decided to get into skydiving again after a 9 year hiatus, the first people I contacted were a booking company.... I can't find the number again to confirm whether or not they were skyride affiliated. Anyways, they gave me some package options and prices, but did let me know what locations they had available (and the 3 dropzones they gave me prices for are all valid, existing dropzones)... As a precautionary measure I decided just to head to the DZ and buy my deal there, and if I ended up paying a little more oh well, better safe than sorry.... well as it turns out, just going to the DZ and booking everything was several hundred dollars CHEAPER.

I take it this is the type of scam that skyride operates, although after having looked at some of their websites (as linked in this thread), I can see that they not only are a financial ripoff, but that they are clearly attempting to mislead and victimize people.

However, in the spirit of this thread, I was kind of upset to find BOTH of my local, beloved DZ's on that list of DZ's that accept skyride bookings......

I understand that running a DZ is tough enough as it is, and not very profitable.... and any business that you can bring in is valuable..... and so its hard for me to really hold it against them, especially since they may in part be blind to the scams that go on that some people here are aware of.

Let me ask this.... what do you all think a DZO might do if he simultaneously received 100 typed but pen and ink signed letters from skydivers with well thought out and composed reasons that he and his DZ should STOP accepting skyride bookings? I mean, as corny as it sounds, look at the NRA... very successful in some ways at what they do, and they FREQUENTLY send out pre-typed letters to members, hoping that those members will in turn agree, sign and date, and mail the letters to the intended recipient (and I am NOT defending all of the practices of the NRA...just think this one has its uses, and can be very effective)....

If the spirit of this thread is truly to figure out and do something about the skydiving scams out there, and not about simply venting anger, then perhaps we all can organize something to this effect?

I, for one, can personally attest to being nearly victimized by a booking scam, and would like to see my home DZ's removed from that list.

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If you cant beat 'em (which you obviously can't) then join em.



Ok, I understand that I'm biting at a troll, but....

Skyride can be "beat"! Skyride sells virtually zero certificates in Kansas, primarily because no Kansas DZ accepts the certificates. They may be selling a few in the Kansas City KS area because they have a DZ on the MO side. DZOs do not need to join, but rather learn! I've said it before, and I'll most likely say it again. Skyride garners in my estimate well in excess of 95% of their customers through Pay Per Click search engine advertising. Every DZO that values their student traffic should have learned by now this fact, and be running their own PPC ads. It's not at all expensive, it's also easy to do, and you're only paying for traffic searching for skydiving, as opposed to most other media.

In my opinion DZOs "join" Skyride because their short sighted, and lazy (won't do their own marketing).
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

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If you cant beat 'em (which you obviously can't) then join em.



Ok, I understand that I'm biting at a troll, but....

Skyride can be "beat"! Skyride sells virtually zero certificates in Kansas, primarily because no Kansas DZ accepts the certificates. They may be selling a few in the Kansas City KS area because they have a DZ on the MO side. DZOs do not need to join, but rather learn! I've said it before, and I'll most likely say it again. Skyride garners in my estimate well in excess of 95% of their customers through Pay Per Click search engine advertising. Every DZO that values their student traffic should have learned by now this fact, and be running their own PPC ads. It's not at all expensive, it's also easy to do, and you're only paying for traffic searching for skydiving, as opposed to most other media.

In my opinion DZOs "join" Skyride because their short sighted, and lazy (won't do their own marketing).



Skyride can be beat? Well then what's the problem? Why all the talk and no action? Excuses excuses excuses.

Arent you people generally the first to offer some cheese to go along with the "wine". Well guess what people, you guys deserve one hell of a big fucking piece of cheese.

The DZO's that join are not lazy nor are they shortsighted, they simply understand the concept of business and partnering in the business world.

Get over it. Move on and understand that this world we all live in is not always fair (especially the business world).

If you guys took the collective energy and frustration that has been poured into beating this dead horse I bet you could have come up with a real world "solution" to this so called "problem".

Come on brainiacs, how about it? Quit yer bitching and figure out a solution to this so called dilemma.

Here's a hint: The solution does not involve shutting them down, it aint gonna happen.

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