Bodhisattva420 0 #51 January 20, 2010 Don't do it Joe! The guy you bought it from has a limp! =P I'm not sure if this would be any safer, but they do have a triathlon 160 laying around. I think the owner wanted $650 for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psychonaut 0 #52 January 21, 2010 Quote That said...I know of a very progressive dropzone in the midwest that put all AFF students out on Sabre's...and did so safely. I personally saw some students transition to Stilleto's for a few jumps...and many bought and jumped ellipticals for their first canopy's. This was all done with alot of coaching, mentoring, attention,and constant reminder that you will likely die if you screw up close to the ground. CSC perhaps?Stay high pull low Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #53 January 21, 2010 QuoteQuote That said...I know of a very progressive dropzone in the midwest that put all AFF students out on Sabre's...and did so safely. I personally saw some students transition to Stilleto's for a few jumps...and many bought and jumped ellipticals for their first canopy's. This was all done with alot of coaching, mentoring, attention,and constant reminder that you will likely die if you screw up close to the ground. CSC perhaps? Doubt it... I know they have Navigators. Not sure why you would put AFF students on Sabre's when you have Navigators?*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearless_chris 1 #54 January 21, 2010 QuoteQuote That said...I know of a very progressive dropzone in the midwest that put all AFF students out on Sabre's...and did so safely. I personally saw some students transition to Stilleto's for a few jumps...and many bought and jumped ellipticals for their first canopy's. This was all done with alot of coaching, mentoring, attention,and constant reminder that you will likely die if you screw up close to the ground. CSC perhaps? Nope, but you're close."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psychonaut 0 #55 January 21, 2010 I'm pretty sure the nav's are like the 190's or up.. 210's or so.. How small do nav's even go? I was on their sabre2's down to 150 renting at one point. (Implying student/rental gear are the same rigs)Stay high pull low Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #56 January 21, 2010 Quote(Implying student/rental gear are the same rigs) I think you are right about that...*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #57 January 21, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote That said...I know of a very progressive dropzone in the midwest that put all AFF students out on Sabre's...and did so safely. I personally saw some students transition to Stilleto's for a few jumps...and many bought and jumped ellipticals for their first canopy's. This was all done with alot of coaching, mentoring, attention,and constant reminder that you will likely die if you screw up close to the ground. CSC perhaps? Doubt it... I know they have Navigators. Not sure why you would put AFF students on Sabre's when you have Navigators? There is nothing wrong with putting students on a Sabre with the correct WL.Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psychonaut 0 #58 January 21, 2010 Quote I think you are right about that... I meant to say it in a tone of "I know this for a fact" rather then it sounding like a question Quote There is nothing wrong with putting students on a Sabre with the correct WL. Right. I've been to some DZ's where the only rigs they have for students are no smaller than 210. Sure this is sound practice especially concerning students; My first AFF was a 210, but that lasted 2 jumps at most before starting to downsize since I'm only 135. IMO the best idea as most DZ's follow is to start large as hell, just being on the safe side. Then obviously you watch the student progress, their landings, etc and put them on what is necessary. (Factoring in weight and WL too of course)Stay high pull low Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #59 January 21, 2010 Quote There is nothing wrong with putting students on a Sabre with the correct WL. Yeah... I suppose that's true.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver604 0 #60 January 21, 2010 Implying student/rental gear are the same rigs The DZ I did my SL Progression at the student gear is also the rental gear. At the time I weighed about 210-215 pounds. My progression consisted of: Man of War 320 (static jumps) PD 300 (freefall) 290 Manta or PD 292 (Freefall) 260 Navigator (after Solo Cert) 230 Silhouette (current gear I'm jumping) I found this to be a fairly comfortable progression. Edited to add At that time the smallest student / rental gear they had was the 260 Navigator. Not sure if they have added to it since. (I changed dropzones in July 2009.) "The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jim_32766 0 #61 January 27, 2010 I noticed there have been no posts from the OP recently. Did he make the jump and did someone win BB?The meaning of life . . . is to make life have meaning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jf951 1 #62 January 28, 2010 WOW u guys are FCUKED up...bounce bingo!?! go die in a hole! the guy is a newbie just like just everysingle one of us were and still are! hes loading that thing WELL under 1:1 its not like hes going out there and loading the shit out of it! not everyone of us is backin up the brinks truck and collecting a retirement fund like half u guys from florida are, some of us ARE on a budget and dont have 5k+ to spend on a rig, therefore we dont always get to pick exactly what we would like and have to make due with what we can afford. past expirence in other sports is totally relivant, from a bike/mx back ground i know that u cant show up on a track and think ur hot shit or it WILL come and bite you. if you've learned that in another sport and how to keep ur cool and not panic you are much likly to do better than someone who hasnt learned that lesson yet. you may have ur oppinions on how he may do but have some decency and respect twards him. ive seen ppl talk bad around here but i've never seen anything at this level towards someone new in the sport give him a break hes obviusly taking advice from someone he personally knows and respecs. JMS8800 you already know the assumed risks of skydiving and simply becareful. i was on a spectre(yes a very differnty canopy)190 loaded nearly 1:1 on jump 20 something and i had no problems with it.Jump more, Bitch less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #63 January 28, 2010 Sound and mature judgment is something to be valued. A minimally adequate level of communication is, too. Your post has neither. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buff 0 #64 January 28, 2010 Quote WOW u guys are FCUKED up...bounce bingo!?! go die in a hole! Put me back on the board and pass me one of Skybytch's cups cause we have a DGIT here loading it way up at 1.4 on his PDR. Anybody want to go on the diameter of the hole?It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude. If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough. That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeatlast 0 #65 January 28, 2010 JF951 - I don't think that you have fully understood the majority of these posts - or fully understand the type of canopy that the OP is talking about. Have you ever jumped a heatwave? There's a reason that some countries put this canopy into a category where you simply are not allowed to jump it until you have 400 - 500 jumps no matter what your wing loading is !!! Not all 190's fly the same or handle the same ... As for the BB comments - maybe some of the guys are trying in a very blunt way to explain to the OP that this simply isn't a good idea ... There are plenty of cheap canopies out there and no-one has suggested that the OP spend a ton of money on a canopy ... (If you are short of cash it's always worth seeing what work can be done around the DZ or on the packing mat ... and it's a great way of learning about stuff) Making do with what you can afford is a great principle - but so is taking good advice from those who are far more experienced than you... Relevant experience will help in many areas - it can help you when the pressure is on, but it mustn't be mistaken for already having skills that you simply don't possess or have yet to learn ... Being RAD won't make the ground softer - which is why some of the previous generation of young rad dudes are not chiming in with advice - some of them have already bounced and some of those posting good advice have already seen it happen to a previous generation ... I would suggest that if you bear all of this in mind - you will probably see a bunch of like minded enthusiasts who are all passionate about the same sport who are trying to dish out some tough love and actually help a new guy realise that he has quite possibly made a mistake with his canopy choice and who are trying to prevent him from compounding that error and becoming a statistic ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jf951 1 #66 January 29, 2010 Quote JF951 - I don't think that you have fully understood the majority of these posts - or fully understand the type of canopy that the OP is talking about. Have you ever jumped a heatwave? There's a reason that some countries put this canopy into a category where you simply are not allowed to jump it until you have 400 - 500 jumps no matter what your wing loading is !!! Not all 190's fly the same or handle the same ... As for the BB comments - maybe some of the guys are trying in a very blunt way to explain to the OP that this simply isn't a good idea ... There are plenty of cheap canopies out there and no-one has suggested that the OP spend a ton of money on a canopy ... (If you are short of cash it's always worth seeing what work can be done around the DZ or on the packing mat ... and it's a great way of learning about stuff) Making do with what you can afford is a great principle - but so is taking good advice from those who are far more experienced than you... Relevant experience will help in many areas - it can help you when the pressure is on, but it mustn't be mistaken for already having skills that you simply don't possess or have yet to learn ... Being RAD won't make the ground softer - which is why some of the previous generation of young rad dudes are not chiming in with advice - some of them have already bounced and some of those posting good advice have already seen it happen to a previous generation ... I would suggest that if you bear all of this in mind - you will probably see a bunch of like minded enthusiasts who are all passionate about the same sport who are trying to dish out some tough love and actually help a new guy realise that he has quite possibly made a mistake with his canopy choice and who are trying to prevent him from compounding that error and becoming a statistic ... its beyond the information that they are telling im infuriated at the types of comments that are being posted, they are demeaning rude and disrespectful. go a head and tell him the advice he needs but certainly NOT in the demeanor you are doing it. if i were in his case i would have undoubtedly lost all respect for the members of this website and would have passed off any advice that could have been relevant to my well being.Jump more, Bitch less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeatlast 0 #67 January 29, 2010 I can only speak for myself and can promise that i have treated the OP with absolute respect and can fully understand his position and i actually applaud him for posting online to try and gather information about his new purchase. The point i make about the other posts here is that people sometimes come across harshly when they are trying in the strongest terms to get an important point across ... To be fair respect is also a two way thing and i think that you should also understand this and give some respect to the large number of people who have taken the time to try and make this point to someone that they've never even met! If the humour is a little bleak at times then it is best taken with a pinch of salt and the understanding that this isn't gentle sport - it can be at times a dangerous sport (particularly when advice is ignored)... The internet is a communication tool but it's one drawback is that mis-understandings can occur and it is difficult to read the personality of the person or the post ... I am sure if you met many of the guys who have posted here in person you would understand that they are only offering some good advice - even if it is mixed in with some humour that not everyone likes ... Either way the original advice is still good - the canopy choice is not suitable for the OP's experience level - whether he listens to the advice or not is his choice - if he doesn't like the humour or finds the banter offensive then I'm sure that he would definately find the pain of a major trauma incident 'uncomfortable' too !!! I didn't listen at times when i started out - at times i thought i knew better, over the years i've outlived several people that i thought were conservative and didn't understand - but in the end it turned out that i was simply lucky and some of them were not ... Accidents can happen anytime, but it is better for all of us - jumpers, gear manufacturers, DZ Owners, TI's etc if we can all do what we can to reduce the incidents that were easily preventable ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morne 0 #68 February 18, 2010 Great advice in this thread. I myself have bought my own rig , a 170 main , loaded 1.000something :1 , square canopy. (ZP) Started jumping it at around 30 jumps after going through 230 ,210 , 190 and hired 170 also. And it flies awesome and I still want to do a few 100 more jumps on it before I downsize. Still get my hart pumping ! Did he make a jump with the ellyptical? Anyone know what the outcome was? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
