davelepka 4 #51 February 12, 2010 QuoteI would have cut the lanyard to the PC and deployed my reserve. I hope you realize how close you came to "going in." I hope you realize how close to going in you're going to be if you think you can cut your bridle off of your leg in freefall with a hook knife. Remember that the PC trailing off of your leg is going to be holding you head low. You'll also be reaching for the bridle with one hand, as the other will be full of a hook knife. Here's the kicker, with a PC in tow, the bridle does not sit still. It's bouncing and dancing all over the place. You're going to be reaching uphill for a dancing bridle with one hand. Even if you do get a hand on it, you still need to thread it through the slot in the hook knife. Looking at the other option, just duming the reserve, you have to figure that with the bridle wrapped around your leg, the remaining bridle is nowhere near long enough to get near the reserve container. Once you are on your belly, the PC will be over the snag point on your leg, much further away than a normal PC in tow would be from the reserve PC. Even in a regular PC in tow, you have the freebag system to help you avoid a reserve deployment problem. As stated above, around your leg is actually better than towing from the pin, the PC is further from the reserve PC. Dump the reserve, and the worst case scenario is a two-out, which is way easier to deal with than a 'no out', which is what you will have at impact if you attempt to cut your bridle in freefall. You need to reconsider this plan, and any other plan for dealing with a deployment problem that keeps you in freefall. Any solution that takes longer than 4 or 5 seconds from the time you realize you have a problem to the time you have a canopy over your head is the wrong solution. Just getting your hook knife out while dangling head-low with a PC hanging off of your leg will take 4 to 5 seconds. You're not even halfway to an open reserve canopy with your plan, and you've already burned through 1000 ft. It just doesn't add up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #52 February 12, 2010 Quote Just getting your hook knife out while dangling head-low with a PC hanging off of your leg will take 4 to 5 seconds. You're not even halfway to an open reserve canopy with your plan, and you've already burned through 1000 ft. It just doesn't add up. Your opinion, not mine. I gaurentee you i could deploy my hook knife from my chest strap and cut the PC in less than 3 secs. I have made it abundantly clear that this is my plan and have suggested that no one else employ it, why all of the feedback? You do what you want in this situation, and I'll do what i want to do. Deal? -Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #53 February 12, 2010 QuoteI gaurentee you i could deploy my hook knife from my chest strap and cut the PC in less than 3 secs I'm not sure how you could make that guarantee. Have you ever tried cutting a bridle with a hook knife? I haven't but I've cut a few things with them, and it's not always like a hot knife through butter. There's usually two layers of binding tape with stiching down each edge, and a spectra kill line down the middle. You also realize you'll be curled up in a ball on your back, right? It's not like you could remain belly to earth, reach back for the bridle, and pull it in front of you to cut it. You'll have to roll over, and bend at the waist to even make a grab for the bridle. If you do get a hand on it (remember, they dance) you'll have to pull it in somewhat to get it in range of the knife. All that adds up to is airspeed, and lots of it follwed by time to roll back onto your belly to pull your left side chest-mounted ripcord. It all sounds like it would take a lot of altitude if everything went down like clockwork. If you want to act like 3 hook knives will make your dick bigger, it's literally your life on the line. To anyone else reading this, think about the situation and the details I've pointed out. Use that information to make your own choice about how you would proceed if this should happen to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnmatrix 21 #54 February 12, 2010 Quote I generally dive, but did a poised exit on that occasion. Interesting... I'm not as experienced as you are and was starting to think I had the H+Ps nailed down... I guess you never really know until the shit hits the fan. Thanks for posting this stuff OP, its always good to have a reminder of what can go wrong. I tend to do dive exits too, unless it's too cramped to set myself up in the door - then I'll do the climb out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #55 February 12, 2010 If it's a kevlar line, it may not cut easy anyway. rwieder, I don't believe it would work so easy as it sounds on paper. The likelyhood you would personally have this happen is so slim, that except for random discussion, the point isn't very solid anyway.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #56 February 12, 2010 QuoteI have made it abundantly clear that this is my plan and have suggested that no one else employ it, why all of the feedback? You do what you want in this situation, and I'll do what i want to do. Deal? One more time. What, is your reading comprehension in the frigging' basement?? And yes, i have cut a PC lanyard with one of my hook knives, I've also cut through risers as well. You know you can buy a $2.98 knive and have nothing, or you can spend close to $100.00 and have something that actually works. But then again you must know your limitations and the limitations of your equipment as well. This will be my last word on this subject, the floor is yours, I'm not concerned with what you'd do although I am concerned with what I'd do. My plans are made, I will not deviate from it. QuoteIt's not like you could remain belly to earth, reach back for the bridle, and pull it in front of you to cut it. According to the original poster it was wrapped around his leg, so let it "dance" all it wants, it will be easy enough to cut while it's wrapped around your leg. ***If you want to act like 3 hook knives will make your dick bigger, it's literally your life on the line.Quote Listen, I'm 51 years old, ego is long past me, and i've got a great perspective on my mortality so I don't need any further lecturing from you. I've had at least 6 PC's in tow in my time, i didn't pull my cut-away and deploy my reserve, I simply reached around my back and yanked on the lanyard and deployed my main succesfully each time.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilotdave 0 #57 February 12, 2010 QuoteI've had at least 6 bag locks in my time There's gotta be a good story in there somewhere. How'd ya manage "at least" 6 baglocks? I assume there's more to it than bad luck or bad packing... Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #58 February 12, 2010 QuoteYou do what you want in this situation, and I'll do what i want to do. Deal? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One more time. What, is your reading comprehension in the frigging' basement?? I can read just fine, maybe I should have spelled it out in clear english, but no I do not agree to the terms of your 'deal'. Just because you think the subject is over and done does not mean that it is. I just want my position to be abundantly clear to anyone reading this thread - if you try to stop the freefall and fail, the plan is PARACHUTE, PARACHUTE, PARACHUTE. Never, ever, ever abandon that plan unless you have at least 3/4 of a canopy over your head. If you have anything less than a partially (3/4 or better) inflated main over your head, go straight to PARACHUTE, PARACHUTE, PARACHUTE without delay. If your partially inflated main is spinning, look for more like 7/8 inflation before you consider getting 'creative' with your situation. I'm not replying to your posts for your benefit, it's quite clear you've made up your mind and are not willing to listen to reason. I reply to make it clear to the low timers reading this thread that your plan is a bad idea, and that I'm willing to back up that opinion with many, many reasons why. Hookit was nice enough to add a great one, kevlar kill lines. I didn't even think of that, but that stuff is tough and doesn't like to cut. It's kind of ironic, but the very reason you would go in is the same reason they use kevlar for kill lines - it's strong as hell and very resistant to cuts and abbrasions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #59 February 12, 2010 Quote. I've had at least 6 bag locks in my time, i didn't pull my cut-away and deploy my reserve, I simply reached around my back and yanked on the lanyard and deployed my main succesfully each time. I think you meant pilot chute in tow. There's no reach around option with a bag lock. What rig where you jumping when these occured?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rwieder 0 #60 February 12, 2010 QuoteWhat rig where you jumping when these occured? Javelin J-4, C-19 / Cobalt 170^2 / WL: 1:5:1. This was my first rig and i had a bad habit of not cocking the PC correctly. (Cazar 24" diameter) Always in a hurry to catch the next flight. Less than 168 jumps. It hasn't happened since i sold that rig and bought a new one and it hasn't happened again. I stand corrected, it was a PC in tow, not a baglock, pardon the oversight.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #61 February 12, 2010 ...and I should have waited longer to stabilise before deploying... Not if you had lost altitude awareness. In your first post you said "not sure of my height". If that meant you'd lost altitude awareness, then pull is the good thing... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Yes! We all have bad days, this was yours. Once in trouble, you did the right thing. Learn more, but know that you did something other jumpers would wish they had done if they were still alive: you pulled. Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tjm 0 #62 February 12, 2010 Quote I gaurentee you i could deploy my hook knife from my chest strap and cut the PC in less than 3 secs. Cough Cough...bullshit....Cough! I would agree with 3.2 sec, but less than 3 sec. Your the Zen Master. Alright even if you had the ninja abilities to do so (you must BASE jumpThen again, if you did BASE, you would not be around with those pack jobs.3 hook knives, c'mon. Your a skydiver, not a butcher.If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #63 February 12, 2010 Quote I've had at least 6 PC's in tow in my time, i didn't pull my cut-away and deploy my reserve, I simply reached around my back and yanked on the lanyard and deployed my main succesfully each time. Pulling off a PC in tow from a stable position is just a tad different to working your Erol Flynn magic on a bridle wrapped around your leg in an unstable orientation, but as you said it YOUR plan Good luck with thatYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #64 February 12, 2010 Quote 3 hook knives, c'mon. Your a skydiver, not a butcher. Maybe he does a lot of CRW. Hey, he's got his idea of how to handle it. I certainly wouldn't teach that, but he's a big kid, can make up his own mind. I think the most important thing for all of us is to keep that clock in our head that lets us know how close the ground is getting. Whether it's a hook knife in your hand or a pilot chute around your leg, the ground is getting closer, and you have to pull your reserve before you run out of time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #65 February 12, 2010 ...and the more time/altitude you spend screwing with a hook knife, the less time/altitude you have to deal with any reserve opening problems.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites topdocker 0 #66 February 12, 2010 Quote Quote 3 hook knives, c'mon. Your a skydiver, not a butcher. Maybe he does a lot of CRW. Hey, he's got his idea of how to handle it. I certainly wouldn't teach that, but he's a big kid, can make up his own mind. I think the most important thing for all of us is to keep that clock in our head that lets us know how close the ground is getting. Whether it's a hook knife in your hand or a pilot chute around your leg, the ground is getting closer, and you have to pull your reserve before you run out of time. I've been doing hardcore competition CRW for over twenty years, 6000 jumps. I have not used a hook knife yet. (no knock on wood symbol to put here!) Most people can't get their hook knives out without a major amount of work/hassle. Nobody ever practices getting their knife out of the sleeve. I asked a guy to show me his hook knife once, and as he pulled it out, he cut his chest strap! Luckily, we were standing in the loading area, so we could just pull ourselves off the load. Him because he needed some major rigging and me because I was laughing too hard to see straight. If you're in freefall groping for your knife, you are in trouble! That clock better be working!!! topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #67 February 12, 2010 I used to hang with Team Infinity, and if I recall, they had a wrap or two that brought out the blades. I've only used one under canopy to cut through some cross connectors, nothing urgent. Thanks for your expert opinion and hilarious story.John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites firstime 0 #68 February 14, 2010 I am sorry for that statement, maybe I am being partial because of my own experience.. see ..lucky & stupid.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rwieder 0 #69 February 14, 2010 Quote Cough Cough...bullshit....Cough! I would agree with 3.2 sec, but less than 3 sec. Your the Zen Master. Not a ZenMaster, but my hands are so fast, they qualify for a repeating weapons permit. J/K Quote Then again, if you did BASE, you would not be around with those pack jobs. BASE jumping is against the law. But this doesn't mean I'm above the law all of the time. I'm the king of terrible pack jobs, believe me, never was good at it. Quote 3 hook knives, c'mon. Your a skydiver, not a butcher. I'm sorry for saying I carry 3 knives, I actually carry four. I forgot the one in the pocket of my jumpsuit. I wouldn't pull it though, it came with the jumpsuit. Although the jump suit was worth the $$$ I don't understand putting a $0.02 knife in a $400.00 Jump suit. For those of you who don't believe in hook knives, the time will come when you wished you had one, believe it, I don't mean the $0.02 plastic jobs, I'm talking about REAL freaking long razor sharp hook knives. You know, the kind that are designed to cut things other instruments won't. For those of you who pose....WELL BSBD. As an old friend of mine told me on my very first jump "It's all about living" All these years later, not so much as a scratch. I have seen 4 of my brother's pass away SkyDiving and it's still hard to deal with. I just used the experiences as a means to strenghten my resolve to remember "It's all about living" Just for verification, this is not advice, just experience. There's a reason for everything I do. I do not advise or endorse that anyone take my words and making them "The Gospel" for any reason whatsoever. If that's not enough of a disclaimer for you "Professionals" I will not apologize.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #70 February 14, 2010 Quote For those of you who don't believe in hook knives, the time will come when you wished you had one, believe it, I don't mean the $0.02 plastic jobs, I dont think anyone was saying hooknives have no place, I carry one and if i do crew i carry more than one. What most were say (me included) is that in the OP's scenarios (i.e. freefall PC bridle entanglment) it is NOT the place WE'd be swashbuckling about with a hooknifeYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites emmiwy 0 #71 February 18, 2010 I know this is an old thread, but this video reminded me of the situation you described. In your case, you were able to untangle the PC, while the TI had to go to reserve. I know this is a bit of a different situation, being a tandem jump, but just because I'm curious, could the TI have cutaway before pulling his reserve? He didn't deploy the main from what I can tell, so there would be no point in trying to cutaway...? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvsh26ryl_E&feature=grec Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites InfiniteSky 0 #72 February 18, 2010 Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvsh26ryl_E&feature=grec Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #73 February 19, 2010 Quotecould the TI have cutaway before pulling his reserve? He didn't deploy the main from what I can tell, so there would be no point in trying to cutaway...? That is correct. On a tandem system, the drouge is the main canopy PC, and it is pinned to the rig just above the pin the holds the main container shut. A tandem falling under a drouge is just like a solo jumper with a pilot chute in tow. The difference, of course, is that the drouge is intentionally 'in tow', and can be released by the TI, allowing the drouge to function like a PC, and deploy the main. In this case, even though the drouge was out of the pocket, it was still pinned to the rig and in turn the main container was securely closed. If the same thing was to happen on a sport rig, the situation would be a little different. If your PC was out of the pouch and hung up somewhere, technically your main canopy deployment has begun. If the hang up was to clear, the PC would proceed to open the main container. If you should pull the cutaway before the reserve is a tricky situation. On the one hand, the full force of terminal velocity wind couldn't get the PC to clear, there's a good chance it's not going to. Also, seeing as you initiated main canopy deployment to create the PC in tow, you probably want a parachute out pretty soon, so time is of the essence (unless the PC came out on it's own well above pull altitude, in which case you would have more time). The other thing to consider is both canopies deploying at once. If this happens, it might be better to let them deploy next to each other as opposed to the main cutting away past the deploying reserve. The two out you get by not cutting away might be easier to deal with than a cut away main tangled in your deploying reserve. All bad situations for sure. Pay close attention to how your PC is packed, and that the handle remain in place. Check that handle often in the plane and before exit. Also pay close attention to your bridle routing, flap order and main pin position. Lastly, make sure your PC pouch is well maintained, with no holes or runs, and is tight and still 'springy'. Most of all, thanks for posting that video. Anyone who has followed this thread should study it closely. While it is not a direct example of the subject of this thread, it is an excellent representation of the chaos caused by a bridle hang up in freefall. Pay close attention to the amount of time it takes to do things (like when the camera guy tries to grab the bridle), and imagine if this episode had begun at your regular pull altitude, 15 seconds to impact and 12 seconds until you are too low to get reserve inflation (at best). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites emmiwy 0 #74 February 19, 2010 Thanks davelepka for the thorough response, exactly what I was looking for to confirm my understanding of how this kind of mal should be dealt with. Quote If you should pull the cutaway before the reserve is a tricky situation. On the one hand, the full force of terminal velocity wind couldn't get the PC to clear, there's a good chance it's not going to. Also, seeing as you initiated main canopy deployment to create the PC in tow, you probably want a parachute out pretty soon, so time is of the essence (unless the PC came out on it's own well above pull altitude, in which case you would have more time). PC in tow usually happens if it isn't packed properly or if you don't do a gear check before you go up? Quote The other thing to consider is both canopies deploying at once. If this happens, it might be better to let them deploy next to each other as opposed to the main cutting away past the deploying reserve. The two out you get by not cutting away might be easier to deal with than a cut away main tangled in your deploying reserve. Really good point. But the solution to this seems to vary by instructor...one of my instructors told me there is only need to remember one order of pulling handles: main, cutaway, silver. Its always a safe bet to cutaway in any mal. But I'm going to assume he also didn't mean you need to cutaway if you are under 1000ft or low on altitude. Right? Quote Pay close attention to how your PC is packed, and that the handle remain in place. Check that handle often in the plane and before exit. What if the handle were not in place? I know if the bridle is not packed properly it's not a good thing but what would happen [sorry to ask so many questions, I haven't taken a packing course yet]? Quote Most of all, thanks for posting that video. Anyone who has followed this thread should study it closely. While it is not a direct example of the subject of this thread, it is an excellent representation of the chaos caused by a bridle hang up in freefall. Pay close attention to the amount of time it takes to do things (like when the camera guy tries to grab the bridle), and imagine if this episode had begun at your regular pull altitude, 15 seconds to impact and 12 seconds until you are too low to get reserve inflation (at best). :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #75 February 19, 2010 Quote Really good point. But the solution to this seems to vary by instructor...one of my instructors told me there is only need to remember one order of pulling handles: main, cutaway, silver. Its always a safe bet to cutaway in any mal. But I'm going to assume he also didn't mean you need to cutaway if you are under 1000ft or low on altitude. Right? :) At your level of experience your instructors are correct, stick to the set EPs, You have enough to occupy your mind leaning how to jump, Primacy of learning and repeated EP practice could one day be your life saving best friend. Follow the advice of your instructorsYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
pilotdave 0 #57 February 12, 2010 QuoteI've had at least 6 bag locks in my time There's gotta be a good story in there somewhere. How'd ya manage "at least" 6 baglocks? I assume there's more to it than bad luck or bad packing... Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #58 February 12, 2010 QuoteYou do what you want in this situation, and I'll do what i want to do. Deal? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One more time. What, is your reading comprehension in the frigging' basement?? I can read just fine, maybe I should have spelled it out in clear english, but no I do not agree to the terms of your 'deal'. Just because you think the subject is over and done does not mean that it is. I just want my position to be abundantly clear to anyone reading this thread - if you try to stop the freefall and fail, the plan is PARACHUTE, PARACHUTE, PARACHUTE. Never, ever, ever abandon that plan unless you have at least 3/4 of a canopy over your head. If you have anything less than a partially (3/4 or better) inflated main over your head, go straight to PARACHUTE, PARACHUTE, PARACHUTE without delay. If your partially inflated main is spinning, look for more like 7/8 inflation before you consider getting 'creative' with your situation. I'm not replying to your posts for your benefit, it's quite clear you've made up your mind and are not willing to listen to reason. I reply to make it clear to the low timers reading this thread that your plan is a bad idea, and that I'm willing to back up that opinion with many, many reasons why. Hookit was nice enough to add a great one, kevlar kill lines. I didn't even think of that, but that stuff is tough and doesn't like to cut. It's kind of ironic, but the very reason you would go in is the same reason they use kevlar for kill lines - it's strong as hell and very resistant to cuts and abbrasions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #59 February 12, 2010 Quote. I've had at least 6 bag locks in my time, i didn't pull my cut-away and deploy my reserve, I simply reached around my back and yanked on the lanyard and deployed my main succesfully each time. I think you meant pilot chute in tow. There's no reach around option with a bag lock. What rig where you jumping when these occured?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #60 February 12, 2010 QuoteWhat rig where you jumping when these occured? Javelin J-4, C-19 / Cobalt 170^2 / WL: 1:5:1. This was my first rig and i had a bad habit of not cocking the PC correctly. (Cazar 24" diameter) Always in a hurry to catch the next flight. Less than 168 jumps. It hasn't happened since i sold that rig and bought a new one and it hasn't happened again. I stand corrected, it was a PC in tow, not a baglock, pardon the oversight.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #61 February 12, 2010 ...and I should have waited longer to stabilise before deploying... Not if you had lost altitude awareness. In your first post you said "not sure of my height". If that meant you'd lost altitude awareness, then pull is the good thing... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Yes! We all have bad days, this was yours. Once in trouble, you did the right thing. Learn more, but know that you did something other jumpers would wish they had done if they were still alive: you pulled. Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tjm 0 #62 February 12, 2010 Quote I gaurentee you i could deploy my hook knife from my chest strap and cut the PC in less than 3 secs. Cough Cough...bullshit....Cough! I would agree with 3.2 sec, but less than 3 sec. Your the Zen Master. Alright even if you had the ninja abilities to do so (you must BASE jumpThen again, if you did BASE, you would not be around with those pack jobs.3 hook knives, c'mon. Your a skydiver, not a butcher.If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #63 February 12, 2010 Quote I've had at least 6 PC's in tow in my time, i didn't pull my cut-away and deploy my reserve, I simply reached around my back and yanked on the lanyard and deployed my main succesfully each time. Pulling off a PC in tow from a stable position is just a tad different to working your Erol Flynn magic on a bridle wrapped around your leg in an unstable orientation, but as you said it YOUR plan Good luck with thatYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #64 February 12, 2010 Quote 3 hook knives, c'mon. Your a skydiver, not a butcher. Maybe he does a lot of CRW. Hey, he's got his idea of how to handle it. I certainly wouldn't teach that, but he's a big kid, can make up his own mind. I think the most important thing for all of us is to keep that clock in our head that lets us know how close the ground is getting. Whether it's a hook knife in your hand or a pilot chute around your leg, the ground is getting closer, and you have to pull your reserve before you run out of time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #65 February 12, 2010 ...and the more time/altitude you spend screwing with a hook knife, the less time/altitude you have to deal with any reserve opening problems.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #66 February 12, 2010 Quote Quote 3 hook knives, c'mon. Your a skydiver, not a butcher. Maybe he does a lot of CRW. Hey, he's got his idea of how to handle it. I certainly wouldn't teach that, but he's a big kid, can make up his own mind. I think the most important thing for all of us is to keep that clock in our head that lets us know how close the ground is getting. Whether it's a hook knife in your hand or a pilot chute around your leg, the ground is getting closer, and you have to pull your reserve before you run out of time. I've been doing hardcore competition CRW for over twenty years, 6000 jumps. I have not used a hook knife yet. (no knock on wood symbol to put here!) Most people can't get their hook knives out without a major amount of work/hassle. Nobody ever practices getting their knife out of the sleeve. I asked a guy to show me his hook knife once, and as he pulled it out, he cut his chest strap! Luckily, we were standing in the loading area, so we could just pull ourselves off the load. Him because he needed some major rigging and me because I was laughing too hard to see straight. If you're in freefall groping for your knife, you are in trouble! That clock better be working!!! topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #67 February 12, 2010 I used to hang with Team Infinity, and if I recall, they had a wrap or two that brought out the blades. I've only used one under canopy to cut through some cross connectors, nothing urgent. Thanks for your expert opinion and hilarious story.John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #68 February 14, 2010 I am sorry for that statement, maybe I am being partial because of my own experience.. see ..lucky & stupid.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #69 February 14, 2010 Quote Cough Cough...bullshit....Cough! I would agree with 3.2 sec, but less than 3 sec. Your the Zen Master. Not a ZenMaster, but my hands are so fast, they qualify for a repeating weapons permit. J/K Quote Then again, if you did BASE, you would not be around with those pack jobs. BASE jumping is against the law. But this doesn't mean I'm above the law all of the time. I'm the king of terrible pack jobs, believe me, never was good at it. Quote 3 hook knives, c'mon. Your a skydiver, not a butcher. I'm sorry for saying I carry 3 knives, I actually carry four. I forgot the one in the pocket of my jumpsuit. I wouldn't pull it though, it came with the jumpsuit. Although the jump suit was worth the $$$ I don't understand putting a $0.02 knife in a $400.00 Jump suit. For those of you who don't believe in hook knives, the time will come when you wished you had one, believe it, I don't mean the $0.02 plastic jobs, I'm talking about REAL freaking long razor sharp hook knives. You know, the kind that are designed to cut things other instruments won't. For those of you who pose....WELL BSBD. As an old friend of mine told me on my very first jump "It's all about living" All these years later, not so much as a scratch. I have seen 4 of my brother's pass away SkyDiving and it's still hard to deal with. I just used the experiences as a means to strenghten my resolve to remember "It's all about living" Just for verification, this is not advice, just experience. There's a reason for everything I do. I do not advise or endorse that anyone take my words and making them "The Gospel" for any reason whatsoever. If that's not enough of a disclaimer for you "Professionals" I will not apologize.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #70 February 14, 2010 Quote For those of you who don't believe in hook knives, the time will come when you wished you had one, believe it, I don't mean the $0.02 plastic jobs, I dont think anyone was saying hooknives have no place, I carry one and if i do crew i carry more than one. What most were say (me included) is that in the OP's scenarios (i.e. freefall PC bridle entanglment) it is NOT the place WE'd be swashbuckling about with a hooknifeYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
emmiwy 0 #71 February 18, 2010 I know this is an old thread, but this video reminded me of the situation you described. In your case, you were able to untangle the PC, while the TI had to go to reserve. I know this is a bit of a different situation, being a tandem jump, but just because I'm curious, could the TI have cutaway before pulling his reserve? He didn't deploy the main from what I can tell, so there would be no point in trying to cutaway...? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvsh26ryl_E&feature=grec Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
InfiniteSky 0 #72 February 18, 2010 Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvsh26ryl_E&feature=grec Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #73 February 19, 2010 Quotecould the TI have cutaway before pulling his reserve? He didn't deploy the main from what I can tell, so there would be no point in trying to cutaway...? That is correct. On a tandem system, the drouge is the main canopy PC, and it is pinned to the rig just above the pin the holds the main container shut. A tandem falling under a drouge is just like a solo jumper with a pilot chute in tow. The difference, of course, is that the drouge is intentionally 'in tow', and can be released by the TI, allowing the drouge to function like a PC, and deploy the main. In this case, even though the drouge was out of the pocket, it was still pinned to the rig and in turn the main container was securely closed. If the same thing was to happen on a sport rig, the situation would be a little different. If your PC was out of the pouch and hung up somewhere, technically your main canopy deployment has begun. If the hang up was to clear, the PC would proceed to open the main container. If you should pull the cutaway before the reserve is a tricky situation. On the one hand, the full force of terminal velocity wind couldn't get the PC to clear, there's a good chance it's not going to. Also, seeing as you initiated main canopy deployment to create the PC in tow, you probably want a parachute out pretty soon, so time is of the essence (unless the PC came out on it's own well above pull altitude, in which case you would have more time). The other thing to consider is both canopies deploying at once. If this happens, it might be better to let them deploy next to each other as opposed to the main cutting away past the deploying reserve. The two out you get by not cutting away might be easier to deal with than a cut away main tangled in your deploying reserve. All bad situations for sure. Pay close attention to how your PC is packed, and that the handle remain in place. Check that handle often in the plane and before exit. Also pay close attention to your bridle routing, flap order and main pin position. Lastly, make sure your PC pouch is well maintained, with no holes or runs, and is tight and still 'springy'. Most of all, thanks for posting that video. Anyone who has followed this thread should study it closely. While it is not a direct example of the subject of this thread, it is an excellent representation of the chaos caused by a bridle hang up in freefall. Pay close attention to the amount of time it takes to do things (like when the camera guy tries to grab the bridle), and imagine if this episode had begun at your regular pull altitude, 15 seconds to impact and 12 seconds until you are too low to get reserve inflation (at best). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
emmiwy 0 #74 February 19, 2010 Thanks davelepka for the thorough response, exactly what I was looking for to confirm my understanding of how this kind of mal should be dealt with. Quote If you should pull the cutaway before the reserve is a tricky situation. On the one hand, the full force of terminal velocity wind couldn't get the PC to clear, there's a good chance it's not going to. Also, seeing as you initiated main canopy deployment to create the PC in tow, you probably want a parachute out pretty soon, so time is of the essence (unless the PC came out on it's own well above pull altitude, in which case you would have more time). PC in tow usually happens if it isn't packed properly or if you don't do a gear check before you go up? Quote The other thing to consider is both canopies deploying at once. If this happens, it might be better to let them deploy next to each other as opposed to the main cutting away past the deploying reserve. The two out you get by not cutting away might be easier to deal with than a cut away main tangled in your deploying reserve. Really good point. But the solution to this seems to vary by instructor...one of my instructors told me there is only need to remember one order of pulling handles: main, cutaway, silver. Its always a safe bet to cutaway in any mal. But I'm going to assume he also didn't mean you need to cutaway if you are under 1000ft or low on altitude. Right? Quote Pay close attention to how your PC is packed, and that the handle remain in place. Check that handle often in the plane and before exit. What if the handle were not in place? I know if the bridle is not packed properly it's not a good thing but what would happen [sorry to ask so many questions, I haven't taken a packing course yet]? Quote Most of all, thanks for posting that video. Anyone who has followed this thread should study it closely. While it is not a direct example of the subject of this thread, it is an excellent representation of the chaos caused by a bridle hang up in freefall. Pay close attention to the amount of time it takes to do things (like when the camera guy tries to grab the bridle), and imagine if this episode had begun at your regular pull altitude, 15 seconds to impact and 12 seconds until you are too low to get reserve inflation (at best). :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #75 February 19, 2010 Quote Really good point. But the solution to this seems to vary by instructor...one of my instructors told me there is only need to remember one order of pulling handles: main, cutaway, silver. Its always a safe bet to cutaway in any mal. But I'm going to assume he also didn't mean you need to cutaway if you are under 1000ft or low on altitude. Right? :) At your level of experience your instructors are correct, stick to the set EPs, You have enough to occupy your mind leaning how to jump, Primacy of learning and repeated EP practice could one day be your life saving best friend. Follow the advice of your instructorsYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
