Manta 290 how many cells?

[shah269 0]

Mate just look at my jump numbers.
How I live my life is this, I look at those with greater experience than I and who give a rats ass about me being alive and i go with what they say.

God how cool it would be if i could find a nice 280 ZP in a modern container! I don't even care if it's hot pink! Hell I would prefer it!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[theonlyski 3]

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I don't even care if it's hot pink! Hell I would prefer it!

That actually explains a whole lot!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[likestojump 3]

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Well I just spoke with my DZ's rigger.
A person I highly respect and well he told me he would not recommend it.......So maybe the deal is off? I don't know.
If it were ZP it would be great BUT my rigger was not happy at all that it was a Reflex container.
And like I said, I have 100% trust in the guy and if he says he doesn't like it then I guess that's what I have to say as well.
But god I wish some of you skinny SOB's would pack on a few pounds! I can't find anything online in the 260-280 zp range!

Well that's tool talk. And be offended all you want, but why the hell did you WASTE the sellers time and make him a $2K offer when you weren't ready to proceed ?

[shah269 0]

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Well that's tool talk. And be offended all you want, but why the hell did you WASTE the sellers time and make him a $2K offer when you weren't ready to proceed ?

Well I saw it on the classifieds last night. Tried to get a hold of my rigger he wasn't there. So I made an offer hoping it was what would work for me.
This morning I called my rigger and he said something about "no" and I said "well let's see what this guys rigger says" and my rigger said "ok, wouldn't hurt"
So that's where we stand.
My offer is still on the table and if it turns out it's not for me I'm sure another guy in my weight bracket will buy it.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[PhreeZone 15]

I was thinking the same thing. I have one rigging customer that has a Reflex that she bought this year with 0 jumps on it, I have another that bought a Reflex container and we are putting canopies in it over the winter. Yet another girl at the DZ got a Reflex that her Master Rigger father assembled for her. The container was the best part of this rig.

Reflexes are like Racers in that riggers that are not familiar with them swear them off for no reason. Riggers that have a really solid case against them are few and far between. I dislike Racers but its personal choice since I see so few of them each year but I still pack them since I learn more about them each time.

I'll let Paul handle the part about making an offer and the pricing...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[shah269 0]

It's f111....my instructor said no due to the leg and my lack of jumps. But I think I know someone with enough jumps to know how to properly fly an f111 and I have put them in touch.
I have to say it was a nice idea, but only if it was ZP!

A boy can dream right!
if it were zp i would have jumped it even if it were HOT PINK

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Hellis 0]

So you and your instructor says no to a canopy because its F111?
I would like to know what you and your instructor think about the reserve?

If your not allowd to jump a F111, you are basicly jumping a BASEconfiguration with skydivinggear and sloppy packjobs?
Ouch!

If your not comfortable with F111, skydiving is not for you, IMO.

[tetra316 0]

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So you and your instructor says no to a canopy because its F111?
I would like to know what you and your instructor think about the reserve?

If your not allowd to jump a F111, you are basicly jumping a BASEconfiguration with skydivinggear and sloppy packjobs?
Ouch!

If your not comfortable with F111, skydiving is not for you, IMO.

F111's flare like shit after a couple hunderd jumps. I know, my first canopy was a PD170. There is a reason most modern mains are NOT F111. Why would you buy a main that would be ragged out for flaring after a couple hundred jumps? I expect my mains to last at least 2000 jumps, whether or not I have them that long.

You cannot compare mains to reserves when a reserve is only going to have max of 25 jumps. That is if you have to use it every repack cycle which is highly unlikely.

You also cannot compare skydiving mains to base mains. For one thing base rigs are huge compared to skydiving mains which negates some of the crappy flare factor. You can't compare a 280 or large base rig to a more common skydiving main size of around 150. Huge flaring differences.

[Hellis 0]

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So you and your instructor says no to a canopy because its F111?
I would like to know what you and your instructor think about the reserve?

If your not allowd to jump a F111, you are basicly jumping a BASEconfiguration with skydivinggear and sloppy packjobs?
Ouch!

If your not comfortable with F111, skydiving is not for you, IMO.

F111's flare like shit after a couple hunderd jumps. I know, my first canopy was a PD170. There is a reason most modern mains are NOT F111. Why would you buy a main that would be ragged out for flaring after a couple hundred jumps? I expect my mains to last at least 2000 jumps, whether or not I have them that long.

You cannot compare mains to reserves when a reserve is only going to have max of 25 jumps. That is if you have to use it every repack cycle which is highly unlikely.

You also cannot compare skydiving mains to base mains. For one thing base rigs are huge compared to skydiving mains which negates some of the crappy flare factor. You can't compare a 280 or large base rig to a more common skydiving main size of around 150. Huge flaring differences.

I dont agree with you, i think you missed my point

As you can see the name of the thread is "Manta 290 how many cells?".
My guess is that he (by some reason) is afraid of 7 cell canopys.
And even more afraid of F111 canopys.
The reserve in this gear he is talking about is a Raven III M 249, without knowing much about it, i guess 7 cell F111.
The main canopy on the other hand is a F111 Manta, made 99 and has 20 jumps on it.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=99785;d=1

Even if he would keep jumping his student gear, Navigator 280, he would still have a 7 cell F111 reserve.
A reserve that he might only have one chance to land compared to pulling high on the Manta and trying it out before actually landing it.
If he would have to pull his reserve he would be under a canopy that he has no faith in at low altitude and perhaps have to land of DZ.

Even if the Manta is F111 i would rather kick him out the door with that than having him have a malfunction on his Navigator.
See my point now?

I did not compare it with BASE gear, you again missread what i wrote/meant.
If he has a 7 cell F111 reserve he can not pull his reserve and be 'fine with it'.
If he and his instructor dont want him to land a (20 jump) 9 cell F111 canopy, how can you tell him that its fine to jump with a smaler 7 cell F111 reserve?
I know the 7 cell flight characteristics, i jump a Spectre and Lightning, so i know they are more docile. But still (i might be misstaken) i get the impression he does not like 7 cell canopys.

With sloppy packjobbs, i meant either its a payed packer that packed the canopy in 5-10 min, or (if its the student gear) a student/novice packer that packed it.
When comparing that to how you pack a reserve or BASE canopy with clamps and much better line control, i call all main packjobbs more or less sloppy.

And with all above in mind i call it jumping a BASEconfiguration with skydivinggear and sloppy packjobs because he (as i understand it) dont trust 7 cells and F111.

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You can't compare a 280 or large base rig to a more common skydiving main size of around 150. Huge flaring differences.

We are not talking about a 150 main, its a 290 sqf Manta.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

[tetra316 0]

In case you missed it, he said he was recommended against the Manta because it was F111. We are talking about F111 as mains not reserves. F111 main is not a good idea, at least I would never recommend one for a skydiving rig.

A reserve is completely different. My previous comment was talking about the main. I don't think an F111 main is a good choice to purchase for personal use, especially when there are so many other, better options out there.

You comments are all talking about the reserves. I wasn't.

Missed points both ways I guess.

[likestojump 3]

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In case you missed it, he said he was recommended against the Manta because it was F111. We are talking about F111 as mains not reserves. F111 main is not a good idea, at least I would never recommend one for a skydiving rig.

A reserve is completely different. My previous comment was talking about the main. I don't think an F111 main is a good choice to purchase for personal use, especially when there are so many other, better options out there.

You comments are all talking about the reserves. I wasn't.

Missed points both ways I guess.

let's not diss the F111. There are still quite a few people who jump F111 mains and like 'em. I have a 125lbs friend who progressed 218/190/170 all F111 - because she liked how easy they are to pack, and how inexpensive they were to procure with low jump numbers (all because of those F111-haters :)

imagine a 155lbs low timer who has $400 to spare and is about to kill themselves out of packing frustration.

would you rather :
a) have them quit
b) have them sell a kidney and buy a Sabre2-190 (and struggle packing it)
c) have them buy a Sabre-190 with 1000 jumps and a shitty set of lines
d) have them buy a very low jump PD190/PD210

I tend to think option D deserves consideration

[tetra316 0]

Good points but I still wouldn't recommend them. I know quite a few others who wouldn't either, if you had a choice. Personal preference.

Used ZPs might be harder to find but they are out there if you take the time to look, as I'm sure you know

[shah269 0]

The navigator I'm renting is a 9 cell ZP that I pack into a Dbag made for a 260 F111.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[likestojump 3]

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The navigator I'm renting is a 9 cell ZP that I pack into a Dbag made for a 260 F111.

no, the Navigator that you jump is a Hybrid - it has ZP topskin, and F111 bottom skin. So it flies more like a ZP canopy, but packs more like an F111. Their other hybrid canopies are the Silhouette and the Pulse.

Please be more proactive about learning your gear. You cannot come to an internet forum every time you need an answer. PD has an AWESOME site, with lots of information and great articles.

etc,etc.

[Hellis 0]

What rig is that you pack that Navigator in?
And what year is it from?

I doubt any rigmanufactors size bags for F111

[shah269 0]

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The navigator I'm renting is a 9 cell ZP that I pack into a Dbag made for a 260 F111.

Really? I'll have to ask my rigger. But I recall speaking with the packers and they indicated that the Navigator I was jumping was all ZP.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[likestojump 3]

rigger said...
packers said...
I'll ask them...

Where are all those mental crutches going to be to help you pull the reserve handle ?

Surely you can go to PDs site and read up on the Navigator. Though this just further promotes your helplessness, in the spirit of getting you to at least read what the maker says, click on this : http://www.performancedesigns.com/products.asp?product=na and read what the manufacturer has written about the canopy.

Get off your ass, and do the things that you CAN do. Stop complaining about being a big boy with a piece of metal in you.

I got a 245lbs friend flying a 300 main, and a 215lbs friend flying a Velo79 and he has titanium in his leg. I have not heard either one of those guys ever complain or act as helpless as you sound in these forums.

[Beatnik 2]

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Get off your ass, and do the things that you CAN do. Stop complaining about being a big boy with a piece of metal in you.

I got a 245lbs friend flying a 300 main, and a 215lbs friend flying a Velo79 and he has titanium in his leg. I have not heard either one of those guys ever complain or act as helpless as you sound in these forums.

Right on, glad this has been said. I have been holding back posting on this thread because I have been getting so pissed off at the OP's attitude. I am 213 lbs, taken out my knees 4 times and I jump everything from a 109 up and rounds, lots of rounds. I am tired hearing about all the crap and the poor me attitude also.

[virgin-burner 1]

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Get off your ass, and do the things that you CAN do. Stop complaining about being a big boy with a piece of metal in you.

I got a 245lbs friend flying a 300 main, and a 215lbs friend flying a Velo79 and he has titanium in his leg. I have not heard either one of those guys ever complain or act as helpless as you sound in these forums.

Right on, glad this has been said. I have been holding back posting on this thread because I have been getting so pissed off at the OP's attitude. I am 213 lbs, taken out my knees 4 times and I jump everything from a 109 up and rounds, lots of rounds. I am tired hearing about all the crap and the poor me attitude also.

i guess u're not a size 4 then, ey? do you like strip-clubs?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[masterrigger1 2]

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PD has an AWESOME site, with lots of information and great articles.

They have SOME good info and some bad.
Just because it comes from PD does not make it an absolute.

Just look at this:http://www.thepdblog.com/pdblog/2010/09/video-line-stow-myth.html


Terrible info! If you are going to refute a Myth, try not to show the myth in the video.....

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[theonlyski 3]

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Get off your ass, and do the things that you CAN do. Stop complaining about being a big boy with a piece of metal in you.

I got a 245lbs friend flying a 300 main, and a 215lbs friend flying a Velo79 and he has titanium in his leg. I have not heard either one of those guys ever complain or act as helpless as you sound in these forums.

Right on, glad this has been said. I have been holding back posting on this thread because I have been getting so pissed off at the OP's attitude. I am 213 lbs, taken out my knees 4 times and I jump everything from a 109 up and rounds, lots of rounds. I am tired hearing about all the crap and the poor me attitude also.

Dude, thats it! Lets get him a round!

Far less titanium from rounds than squares.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[likestojump 3]

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PD has an AWESOME site, with lots of information and great articles.

They have SOME good info and some bad.
Just because it comes from PD does not make it an absolute.

Just look at this:http://www.thepdblog.com/pdblog/2010/09/video-line-stow-myth.html


Terrible info! If you are going to refute a Myth, try not to show the myth in the video.....

MEL

all subjective.

I feel that if one has the free time, there's lots of good info to be found : http://www.performancedesigns.com/education.asp

line stow myth ? Well, let's see... Back when fat dacron lines were joined together by 308 stitch instead of fingertrapped, the cascades had a very good probability of hanging up in the tight locking stow rubberbands. Today in the world of mostly thinner and fingertrapped lines, the same cascades have a very small chance of hanging up in a proper sized rubber band. No myth, but simple observation. Myth ?- obviously not, it's a fact that it has happened, and can happen. Is it something to be deathly scared of ? - probably not, better to understand the problem and set your dbag up in a way to minimize the possibility of occurrence.

[masterrigger1 2]

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all subjective

It is not subjective when the exact video that supposed to disprove a myth, shows exactly the opposite in the same video!

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line stow myth ? Well, let's see... Back when fat dacron lines were joined together by 308 stitch instead of fingertrapped, the cascades had a very good probability of hanging up in the tight locking stow rubberbands. Today in the world of mostly thinner and fingertrapped lines, the same cascades have a very small chance of hanging up in a proper sized rubber band. No myth, but simple observation. Myth ?- obviously not, it's a fact that it has happened, and can happen. Is it something to be deathly scared of ? - probably not, better to understand the problem and set your dbag up in a way to minimize the possibility of occurrence

If you have a bag lock simply by the casscades not passing through, it most likely be a weak P/C issue as a good P/C should break the rubber band.

The issue of double stowing and bag locks is that the fact one holds greatly as the second one behind it breaks and yhe loose lines go around the bag....


The bottom line it is bad info on the video and should not be held as gospel.

There is really good info on that site along with some really bad.
That is the point I am making.


MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[turtlespeed 212]

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Mantas are pure F-111. Theyre a 9 cell canopy that open fast and have a mediocre flare. I would recommend a sabre2 over the manta.

Edit: I stand corrected, I wasnt aware there was a ZP version. Im talking about the F-111 version. I have no experience with the ZP model.

Pilots are comperable as well.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun