Do you loosen your chest strap after opening?

[skymama 35]

Reading another thread made me ponder this question. I don't ever loosen my chest strap. I still lightly load my canopy (1:1 on a Sabre 2) and don't do any high performance landings. so I figured I don't need to bother with it. Is there any reason why I should? Why do you do it?

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[jimmytavino 16]

Hell NO..
thank you very much....

only time i'd loosen ANYthing. would be in case of an accidental water landing...edited to add also in the case of an intentional water landing, but that's how i came up...


because A....
i don't swoop
and B... i don't wanna 'fall out'...
i'm perfectly comfortable with it as is... and get very good perfomance out of my canopy....
I'm more concerned with where i am, where i'm going, what the conditons are, and where all the other canopies might be...

while it's not for me...
i DO get a kick outta watching others zoomin' around,, with their 3 rings out near their biceps!!!!! gotta love High Performance..

jt
POPS3935
A 3914

[pchapman 262]

Loosening the chest strap can be used to allow leaning forward on landing, so that the jumper is more upright while the canopy is "behind" the jumper during the flare.

Even for less experienced jumpers, at lower wing loadings and not swooping, this has helped improve their landings -- easier to balance on landing and see where one's feet are going.

So even at low jump numbers it can be useful. I do however teach the caveats about distractions after opening, and the issue of finding one's handles if the harness is looser and one has a canopy collision or discovers a subtle malfunction. So I'm not sure quite how early in a jumper's career loosening the chest strap would be recommended.

What do I know, but I think ladies might like a little extra breathing room too after opening.

[Divalent 91]

I didn't vote because I'm still a student and haven't really had a chance to considered the issue enough to make a rational decision about it. (So I don't do it, but only because I got more important things to work on.) However, in my explorations here about improving your chances of returning from a long spot, a couple of folks mention loosening your chest strap as one of several things that would help increase your foward speed. (I think the idea is that by widening your risers, it flattens the canopy somewhat). I may play with is in the near future to see if it makes a difference.

[d100965 0]

You will also find that by loosening the chest strap you allow your canopy to take its intended shape rather than be cinched down. This helps the canopy fly and flare better, especially at lighter wing loadings and when in turbulance.
It also allows you to engage your harness when flying around (After also allowing you to be able to sit in your harness more by bringing the leg straps forward a little).

I started loosening my chest strap on my second canopy (Sabre 2 150) loaded at 1.2 and the difference was very noticeably better!!

IMO it's one of those things where you just simply have to do it the once and then you'll wonder why you was ever worried about it.
ie. Remember when you used to let your slider flap about after opening? Then you started collapsing it and it was no big deal....

[millertime24 8]

I do. Not that I swoop but for me it just feels more comfy not cinched down all tight. I will say that it's the LAST thing I do. My order of events are as follows.

1. Deploy
2. Check for traffic while opening and once under canopy
3. Unzip arm wings
4. Check for traffic
5. Collapse slider
6. Check for traffic and grab toggles
7. Release brakes and ensure canopy is flying properly
8. Check traffic, if none let go of toggles and loosen chest strap.
9. Unzip leg wings

Muff #5048

[Rugby82 0]

I agree with pchapman. Try walking, jogging and running. The first response of the human body is to lean forward which is the natural balance of the human body. Try doing this with your cheststrap tight, it won't work. This has an negative effect on someone's landing abilities which could result in injuries.

It also has a positive influence on the shape of the parachute. Accompanied by collapsing the slider and pulling it down it will definitely make your parachute fly better. It will also raise the comfort while flying your canopy.

When pulling the slider down don't forget to release the toggles after you pulled it down and not before or else you will have to search for your toggles between the slidergrommets and the harness. You will make this mistake only once and it'll cost you a lot of time getting your toggles back up the risers.

Blue skies!

[skymama 35]

Quote

I started loosening my chest strap on my second canopy (Sabre 2 150) loaded at 1.2 and the difference was very noticeably better!!

Hmm...that's interesting. Ok, so how far are you loosening it? An inch or two?

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[DocPop 1]

Yes - every jump.

1 - It allows the canopy to flatten out giving more lift perpendicular to the ground, rather than 'wasting' some lift at the wing tips when the canopy is in an anhedral configuration. This only works if you either remove the slider or bring it down the risers.

2 - It allows me to move around more which is more comfortable and allows me to use harness input more effectively.

It is always the last thing I do because I don't want to have a loose cheststrap and then find myself in spinning mal because I can't release a toggle. There is a chance in that event that I would not be able to find my cutaway and reserve handles.

I can feel the difference in the way the canopy flies.

Edited to add: I loosen it as far as it will go so it hangs down. When I ordered my new rig (Infinity) I had a 30" cheststrap put on it.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[format 0]

Every bird flies more solid with less restrains.
Loosened chest strap helps that.

I started because of slider flapping noise and then eventually discovered how good my bird feels about it.

edit: and I loosen it all the way, without disconnecting it.

What goes around, comes later.

[waveoff5500 0]

there was a section about it in one of the recent parachutists, last months i think, in the canopy control article

"its just a normal day at the dropzone until its not"

1653

[Butters 0]

I don't do it because I fly a wingsuit and a lightly loaded canopy.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[pchapman 262]

I'm personally not convinced that "letting the canopy spread better" gives all that big of an effect in most cases. Yes, with a very small canopy and harness super wide like some swoopers. But for the average intermediate jumper, I bet the dimensional and aerodynamic changes will be so small it is hardly worth mentioning.

Of course the canopy flight may not feel much different if one keeps the slider at the top of the risers and it is one that is taut from side to side when under canopy. So the slider situation has to be discussed at the same time.

I think the "improvement" in flight comes more from the way the canopy flight feels with chest strap spread, once one gets used to it. Hard to describe but one isn't as much 'dangling like a pendulum' under the canopy, but with a more direct path between one's center of mass and the canopy.

[michalm21 0]

Chest strap goes loose all the way.
Reasons other stated - I think my canopy flies a bit better, it is more responsive to harness input, more comfortable, allows me to lean forward on landing.

I do make sure I pop my brakes first, and do full controllability check before loosening it though.
I need to make sure canopy functions properly, as I would not want to cut away with very loose chest strap (reminds me of a fatality in Elsinore last year or 2 years ago)

The only thing that still worries me is possible malfunction or entanglement with another canopy and subsequent cutaway with then already loose chest strap. Not that those just happen, but risk is always there (given you survived hitting another canopy, it would suck to fall out of harness after cutaway...)

edit: I am still reconsidering all +/- and may change and not loosen it much or at all

[DSE 3]

Didn't use to...then John LeBlanc suggested it, even on a canopy loaded at 1:4/Storm. It does make a difference in the landings and how my body can pitch forward. I don't have a long chest strap,You might want to try it for a few jumps and see how you feel about it, even on a lightly loaded canopy.
I wouldn't recommend it to newer jumpers until they're really comfortable with the post-deployment and landing process, merely because it's adding more 'stuff.'

[d100965 0]

All the way to the stop. Always.
I use an extension now on my Velo.

Someone stated earlier that they were not all that convinced it would make a difference on larger more lightly loaded canopies. (Is 1.2 -1.5 really lightly loaded anyway?)
I would certainly disagree on that one.
Have you ever watched these larger, lightly loaded canopies land on hot days?
You can see them breathing. They flex in and out. Meaning that they are more dynamic, and right when you need them not to be at flare time.
Well I would certainly add that loosening the chest strap off will help minimise that effect a lot.
That's what I noticed anyway. On my Sabre 2 150 and when I was on a Sabre 2 135 at 1.4.

[chuteless 1]

I used to own a Stevens rig that had a velcro chest strap, and it cam apart on every opening. I found it no bother, and rather liked having the harness opened before landing.

It finally went the way of the do-do bird.

Bill Cole

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Is there any reason why I should?

Nope, no reason. If you're happy with the performance of your canopy as it is, don't bother adding another step to your skydive.

One argument is that the canopy can spread out more 'as it was designed', but that's bullshit. Yes, the canopy can spread out more, but it's not a design feature. The length of the risers, length of the harness, and the width of the yoke will all effect how much the canopy can spread out given the same length chest strap. Which one is 'right'? Where does PD list the ideal harness dimensions for a given canopy model or size?

The other is that people say they like the way it flies better. I'm willing to bet that a big hunk of that is just the way it feels through the harness, and not due to flight characteristics of the canopy. If you could design a rig that would produce the same canpopy configuration with a loose and a tight chest strap, these jumpers would insist the canopy is flying differently. When everyone tells you the loose chest strap is better, and it provides you with a different feeling in your harness, that immediately becomes the 'better' flight characteristics.

I'm not saying that it doesn't make a difference, because it does, what I'm saying is that the actual degree of real difference it makes is debatable for the majority of jumpers, even if they insist it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

It by no means is neccesary, and if you don't already pull your slider down behind your head, it's all for nothing anyway. Your risers will remain the width of your slider at the links not matter what you do with your chest strap.

Higher performance canopy pilots, and swoopers can benefit from greater mobility in the harness, both in flight and while landing. Most other jumpers could take it or leave it with little to no penalty.

[d100965 0]

Dave, I'm gonna disagree with you a little here I'm afraid. (Never thought I'd be doing that!)

If you take the opposite example, ie. I have seen skydivers on the flightline that are so petrified of not being tightened down that they have got their rig chest strap tightened down so much they can hardly breathe. And I'm not talking about just tight, way more tight.
These Canopies can clearly be seen in flight to be very cinched down and also seen to be handling far worse in the same conditions than other comparable canopies.
Yes, perhaps the whole rig is way too tight, leg straps and all which will also contribute to the problem, along with a slider left up.
However, saying that loosening off you chest strap has no effect at all is wrong.
No-one, well for sure not me, has said spreading the canopy out is a "design feature". I'll agree with you there, it's not a design feature.
But the canopy certainly does fly better a little more spread out. And not just from the effect of being in the harness more. But, as I have previously stated, also a noticeabley better handling canopy in turbulance. Which is my main argument anyway.

[JohnRich 4]

Good topic, skymama. There aren't too many things that have never been discussed before, but I think you've found one of them.

I've got two things to add that haven't already been said by others.

1) I usually loosen the chest strap, UNLESS I'm too busy and the few seconds it takes me to do that would detract from safety. For example, if I'm on a big-way dive and there are canopies all over the place, I may choose to not allow myself to be distracted by looking down at and fiddling with the chest strap. It's not that big a deal. When and if time and safety permits, then I'll loosen it. Same with collapsing the slider. Avoiding canopy collisions is the primary priority, and everything else is secondary. Too many people go into robot-mode and start doing those housekeeping chores immediately out of habit, instead of taking care of that first priority. I see jumpers all the time flying right towards someone else (usually ME), blissfully unaware of where they're going, while they fiddle with their shit.

2) I wear my altimeter on a triangular cushion mount my chest strap, and with my chest strap cinched down all the way as I like it for freefall, the altimeter then restricts my downward view when under canopy. Loosening up the chest strap under canopy moves the altimeter off to the side a bit and gives me a more unhindered straight-down view of the ground for landing. Especially handy for pin-point accuracy.

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Didn't use to...then John LeBlanc suggested it, even on a canopy loaded at 1:4/Storm. It does make a difference in the landings and how my body can pitch forward. I don't have a long chest strap,You might want to try it for a few jumps and see how you feel about it, even on a lightly loaded canopy.
I wouldn't recommend it to newer jumpers until they're really comfortable with the post-deployment and landing process, merely because it's adding more 'stuff.'

It's a really old 'trick' that use to make quite a difference on a PC, hang the front mounted reserve to the side and open the chest strap all the way.

I jump fairly lightly loaded canopies and I agree with DSE, it DOES make a discernible difference, even just doing it 4-5 inches...flattens out the wing and gives you more responsive turns and flare.

REALLY turbo-charged one of my demo canopies by adding a split slider!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mr2mk1g 10]

Quote

I do. Not that I swoop but for me it just feels more comfy not cinched down all tight. I will say that it's the LAST thing I do. My order of events are as follows.

1. Deploy
2. Check for traffic while opening and once under canopy
3. Unzip arm wings
4. Check for traffic
5. Collapse slider
6. Check for traffic and grab toggles
7. Release brakes and ensure canopy is flying properly
8. Check traffic, if none let go of toggles and loosen chest strap.
9. Unzip leg wings

Yes, always, but as per above it must come AFTER control checks.

Too many times I still hear of deaths and incidents caused, in part, by people failing to do what they were taught on day one and do a control check as one of the first things they do post opening (not cause they fall out of a container, but things like stuck toggles which only come to light after they've already passed through their hard deck).

Control check first, then move on with the rest of your canopy ride which for me includes loosening off my chest strap. Slightly off topic I guess but it still seems it can't be repeated enough.

[skymama 35]

Quote

It by no means is neccesary, and if you don't already pull your slider down behind your head, it's all for nothing anyway. Your risers will remain the width of your slider at the links not matter what you do with your chest strap.

Well, that's interesting too! I stow my slider, but I don't put it behind my head.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[davelepka 4]

Quote

However, saying that loosening off you chest strap has no effect at all is wrong

I never said it was all wrong. What I said was that jumper perception and actual change/improvement are two different things. When you consider that fact that all the 'cool kids' insist on loosening their chest straps, and the big swooping pics show the guys leaning way out forward, you're going to have the general population thinking that a loose chest strap is the thing to do.

Once you loosened your chest strap, you change the jumper/canopy interface. Everything you do with your canopy will now feel different to you, even if the canopy is doing the same thing. Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't, and maybe it's just a little different, but when combines with the different feel through the looser harness, the jumper perception is of a greater actual change to the canopy.

How about this for an example - we've all seen the tools driving around in sports (or sometimes just sporty) cars wearing driving gloves. Now professional race car drivers wear gloves for a variety of reasons. Wrestling with a steering wheel in constant high-g turns is one reason, to reduce calouses and help improve your grip on the wheel over the course of a long race without tiring out your fore-arms. Another reason is crash protection and fire protection.

So we can see the professional drivers have valid reasons for using gloves, but the tool in the Miata is wearing gloves because the pros do, and I'm sure he feels like he can 'feel the steering' better with his bullshit gloves. He's not doign 200 miles at speed with no power steering, and has little risk of a crash or fire, but he wears the gloves and thinks it makes him 'faster'.

There's no way to argue that loosening the chest strap (with the slider down) effects a change to the canopy, and the way it operates. What I'm saying is that most jumpers could take it or leave it based on the performance of their canopies, and the performance of the jumper themselves. Even if they tell you they 'have to' loosen the chest strap to really 'get the most' out of their canopy, doesn't mean it's true. They might feel like they're really doing something, but I would suggest that the actual degree of real change vs. percieved change is probably pretty low.

In short, for most jumpers it's not a big deal. If it feels good to you, or like something you want to do, then go for it. If it doesn't strike you as a good idea, or something you've never bothered with before, keep on keeping on, you'll be fine without it.

[d100965 0]

OK, so what do you think to the proposed case that the canopy will handle better in turbulence then?
I'm not talking about severe turbulence but those hot days when the cinched down canopies are "breathing" and doing slightly funky stuff?
I will say that if you are too tight in your rig and your slider is up then you can definitely see and feel that canopy handle worse.
And not just a perceptial thing either....
ie. If Skymama were do to nothing different on her next jump except to open her chest strap right up (she will obviously have to stow her slider).
I would say that she will experience an improvement in the canopy, which could well indeed be perceptial as you have explained. But I would also add that if she went through some turbulence she would definitely feel an improvement to how that canopy handles its effects. She will see it in how the canopy itself reacts and looks. And that cannot just be perceptial.