how do you NOT hurt yourself if you flare too early on landing...

[guineapiggie101 0]

For those of you who have come to my defense, a hearty "thank you" goes out to you.
For those of you who see my thread as a funny joke at MY expense, shove off.

[popsjumper 2]

Roasted newbies is a delicacy!
A nice salad and a little red wine with it and you're good to go.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[heavydude 0]

Here is the Heavydudes secrets for botched landings...
To hang out with my son more several years ago I started skateboarding, for a large old guy this is pretty funny. The first point I learned was falling correctly..rolling with the motion. Dynamic falls dont hurt when you dissepate energy horizontally. Flat falls hurt like hell. Skateboarding made me good at PLFs. Skate board goes hits a rut and stops, excellant training for running out a landing. Did that last weekend when my Black lab was pulling me a little too fast on my board..had to jump off and run it out. Rollerblading does the same effect, you are zipping along and suddenly come to a rapid stop because of grass surface, rocks, etc. got to either run out the landing, PLF or crash. Sounds silly but worked for me by accident due to all the "side-sport" training. Pads really help if you do the skateboard approach.

[MX304 0]

You could always break out the PD airbag. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87tqV5GcaQ

[Heatmiser 0]

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For those of you who have come to my defense, a hearty "thank you" goes out to you.
For those of you who see my thread as a funny joke at MY expense, shove off.

Defend you from what? I went back and reread the thread thinking I missed something, but no one attacked you. Being told to "ask your instructors" is pretty standard fare.

Every one of us has botched a flare or a landing. Don't over think it.

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[Divalent 89]

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Roasted newbies is a delicacy!
A nice salad and a little red wine with it and you're good to go.

Be careful there. Us noobs stick together and watch each others back. Remember, I know where you live (at least on weekends)

[Muffie 0]

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It's a good dialog, until someone with very low experience who spends more time posting goatfuck-stupid advice under the influence of beer jumps into the conversation. .

Best Quote ever

+1

I liked it so much I thought about making it my signature line, but decided I still have jump numbers too low to pull it off.

[popsjumper 2]

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Here is the Heavydudes secrets for botched landings...
To hang out with my son more several years ago I started skateboarding, for a large old guy this is pretty funny...

My son...and skateboarding...
Me: Let me show you what I used to do as a kid.
(yes, the inevitable "hold my beer and watch this" crash)

Me: Uhhhhhhhhh.....Uhhhhhhhhhhh....as I lay on the ground with two broken ribs.

Son (looking down at me):
Is that how you used to do it, Dad?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[shah269 0]

I'm sorry but another very dumb question.
Are such injuries caused by "rolling" of the ankle or are they just a blunt force trauma? Falling from two high and the two bones becomming good friends at a high speed?
Thanks!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[guineapiggie101 0]

Defend me from people who post stupid, off the wall stuff on my thread.

On a more serious note, how LONG will it take for my swollen foot to get back to normal? I want to go to the DZ sometime this weekend and try to make a jump, as well as to "properly" thank the 2 wonderful and excellent instructors who jumped with me on Sunday. I feel really bad I forgot to do that.

I can't put much pressure on my foot, without it hurting. I can drive but I am hobbling around on crutches

[DocPop 1]

Hey GP

Please don't rush your recovery - it could lead to a much longer time out of the sky in the long run.

I think DSE's idea of some tunnel time would be a much more sensible way for you spend your time and money until you heal fully and time in the tunnel is not wasted. You could even get some future AFF levels nailed before you even get in the sky!

Heal fast.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Southern_Man 0]

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Defend me from people who post stupid, off the wall stuff on my thread.

On a more serious note, how LONG will it take for my swollen foot to get back to normal? I want to go to the DZ sometime this weekend and try to make a jump, as well as to "properly" thank the 2 wonderful and excellent instructors who jumped with me on Sunday. I feel really bad I forgot to do that.

I can't put much pressure on my foot, without it hurting. I can drive but I am hobbling around on crutches

Hi GP,

There is no way anybody can tell how long your ankle will get back to normal but I would suggest not jumping on it this weekend if you are using crutches now.

I sprained my ankle last year (reached for the ground w/ my foot and put weight on it awkwardly). It took a good two months for it to get better.

Good luck

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[guineapiggie101 0]

I hope it doesn't take that long to heal . I have an "on the go" personality and hate not being able to do stuff. I'm the type of person who hates to rest and always like to keep busy.

I'll see how I am feeling by Sat or Sun

[davelepka 4]

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On a more serious note,

Yeah, let's get back to serious.

Here's a couple of thoughts on how not to get hurt on landing - first off, untill you can string together 10 well-timed flares in a row, plan on a PLF for every landing. Thw worst thing that will happen is that you PLF a perfect landing, and it ends up looking like a PLF in slow motion. The best thing that happens is that things go to shit close to the ground, and amid all that, you PLF because it's what you planned to do right from the start. Once you can display some consistancy with your landings, you can move the PLF to the back burner, but always have there to use when needed.

Next, and somewhat related to the first point, and this applies to all of you skydiving, never stop trying. Not matter how bad or scary things get, you need to keep trying to do it right, whatever it is. In the case of landing, that means you always hit the ground with both toggles in the full flare position and PLF whenever you are in the slightest bit of doubt that it will be a smooth landing.

The idea is that sometimes when people get scared or something unexpected happens, they tend to freeze up. If you happen to botch a flare, and see the ground rushing up to you, freezing up will not help. Keep your brain working, and make sure you flare completely and knock out a killer PLF.

It also applies to the rest of your jump. If you should tumble on an exit, freezing up and panicing will not help. Breathe out, relax, and punch out an arch, and within seconds you'll be fat, dumb and happy (a.k.a. stable). Whatever the situation is, just keep trying and keep following the plan until you stop moving. Once you leave the plane, you're commited to dealing with the situation until you are on the ground and stationary, and until that time comes, you need to keep trying.

All of that aside, a bit of more specific advice (to be verified by your instructors). As mentioned above, you always want to hit the ground with your toggles all the way down. No matter how bad things seem, fully flaring before touchdown will always be an asset to your situation. This applies to late flares, or anytime you are apporaching the ground with your toggles aywhere but in the full flare position. Whatever happens, finish the flare before you hit the ground.

That said, let's talk about early flares. With a student canopy, you need to be in the full flare position before your feet are about to touch down. The bigger canopies will take a second or so to fully slow down following a flare, so if you finish the flare just as your feet hit the ground, you might not be at the min descent rate. if you finish the flare when you feet are still a couple feet off the ground, the canopy will have a chance to fully slow down before touchdown.

Keeping that in mind, you want to plan your flare so you finish the toggle stroke a couple feet up, and that toggle stroke should be smooth and even, and should take 2 or 3 seconds to complete. With that in mind, I tend to look at the toggle stroke as a one-way streeet, and what that means is that you can pull the toggles down, you can stop anytime you want, but you can never go back up. So if you begin your smooth toggle stroke, and realize once you begin to slow dow that you are too high, you can always stop and hold that toggle position until it looks like you are at the right height, at which point you can finish the flare.

The reason for this is that when you put the toggles back up, the canopy does not regain it's speed in a linear fashion, even if you raise the toggle that way. The canopy will surge forward and dive, to a degree that it is going faster than full flight, and then it will return to full flight. For various technical reasons, the flare is ineffective during the surge, and you will hit the ground very hard. Beyond that, if you can get the flare to work, you'll be landing at a much higher speed (like a swoop) and as cool as it looks, that's not what you want.

Some have suggested that you can raise the toggles slightly, but then the problem is the definition of 'slightly'. If it turns out that your slightly is too much, you're stuck in the middle of a surge and trying to land it. The solution is to not raise the toggles at all, simply hold the position, finish the flare before touchdown, and prepare for a PLF.

Note that this does not apply to a stall. If you stall your canopy at any time, you need to raise the toggles enough to get the canopy out of the stall. You never want to hit the ground in a stall.

[virgin-burner 1]

maybe you should ask people in the knowing; like doctors, instructors.. and not the people from the internet.

and maybe you shouldnt be so short-tempered, too!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Southern_Man 0]

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I hope it doesn't take that long to heal . I have an "on the go" personality and hate not being able to do stuff. I'm the type of person who hates to rest and always like to keep busy.

I'll see how I am feeling by Sat or Sun

Hi GP,

I don't have any advice for you except to make sure it is healed because you can reinjure it rather easily.

I was frustrated with being injured and not being able to jump too, but all things considered I figured if I screwed up my flare and only ended up with a sprained ankle then that was a good outcome, relatively.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[thrillstalker 0]

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Once you leave the plane, you're commited to dealing with the situation until you are on the ground and stationary, and until that time comes, you need to keep trying.

brilliant advice and well put.

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[guineapiggie101 0]

Davelepka, your advice about landing, gives me a lot of food for thought. I have a feeling that, since I am still such a newbie at this sport, I probably am not PLFing correctly. Good stuff to think about.

Im gonna see how I feel this weekend. I hate being laid low by things. And the weather is soo nice out there. Hopefully I wont be hobbling around.

[PiLFy 0]

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Defend me from people who post stupid, off the wall stuff on my thread.

On a more serious note, how LONG will it take for my swollen foot to get back to normal? I want to go to the DZ sometime this weekend and try to make a jump, as well as to "properly" thank the 2 wonderful and excellent instructors who jumped with me on Sunday. I feel really bad I forgot to do that.

I can't put much pressure on my foot, without it hurting. I can drive but I am hobbling around on crutches

From what you're describing. You definitely shouldn't jump this weekend. You could cause a more serious injury, & miss months. You could tear something bad enough to require surgery. I don't do gimped ,either. You gotta bite the bullet, sometimes. There are plenty of things you can do & learn @the DZ. A few weeks now could save your whole season.

[PiLFy 0]

You can injure your ankle either way. If enough force is applied @the proper angle? You can actually explode a long bone. Think Robin Hood & the arrow... It's a nasty injury.

[regulator 0]

In all seriousness...you ARE posting on the internet. So dont expect every single response to be on point.

For me, I had issues flaring too low...and still do. I am afraid I will flair to high and stall my canopy, so I stab that fooker at the last few seconds and I dont get the full potential of my flair according to several other experienced jumpers. They informed me that the flair process should be as smooth as possible. So when you are doing the flair to finish it all the way and if you happen to start a bit high, then just let off a bit to get down to the appropriate altitude for flairing and continue that process all the way through. Personally I'm still working on it. No wind days have been kicking my ass. But keep at it. One of these days I will figure it out completely. Still got a ways to go.

[virgin-burner 1]

great advice, and if she let's up a tad too much, she'll smack right into the ground and can be happy if a sprained ankle is her biggest problem after that..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[heavydude 0]

Ice works wonders, you should recover in no time. One other factor to consider is that landings into a moderate wind are usually easier than no wind at all. Nobody ever told me that during AFF, with a headwind you have more time to play with the flare process. A year from now you will have it all down, it all comes with more jumps. Very similar to what my old flight instructor said about flaring a plane prior to landing, the most critical stages of landings are only a few seconds long; thats why student pilots do endless touch and goes to get the flare down.

[guineapiggie101 0]

One other question, since I don't want to start a new thread. Do people ever just go hang out at the DZ for fun, even if they are not going to jump? Or is that something looked on as an oddity?

I have a feeling that I prob won't be able to make a jump this weekend since i am still hobbling around.

I hope I can jump by next weekend. I have no idea how long it takes foot sprains to heal. Doing a search on here, I've seen people say a few weeks to a few months.. Id rather just "push the envelope" and do it asap.

I don't want to forget stuff I've learned and/or develop fears of landing

[millertime24 8]

DSE mentioned the tunnel. Thats really a fantastic way to improve your skills in the air. As for hanging out at the dz and not jumping, sure. I did it all the time early in my skyjumping life. Mainly because I couldn't afford to make 5-7 jumps a day when I didn't own my own gear. Something else to consider though is learning to pack. You can do that without hurting your ankle AND it lets you hang out at the dz with friends too. There's probably some student gear you could use for that.

Muff #5048