AFF course Lodi

[cosreba 0]

Hi guys,

I'm desperate to get into the sport! So I've been researching places to do my AFF course. I have been recommended Lodi, California for the cheap prices and good weather. I live in England so would need to take flights, accommodation and travel from the airport into consideration.

Has anyone had any experience doing their AFF course at Lodi and can advise me on the quality of teaching, accommodation and transport from the airport? And realistically how much the total cost would be?

Thanks guys
Chris

[davelepka 4]

Go to the Farm. It's near Atlanta, so several thousand miles closer to England. They have a package deal to get your A license for a good price. I think you can camp there while you learn. Look them up and see what they say.

Lodi is all the way in California. They also have a 'pending' issue with the FAA regarding aircraft maintenance. It's been determined that they ignored requirements to replace control cables and inspect wing attachment points for corrosion on their Otters. The 'pending' part is that the FAA wants to fine the owner $663,000 for ignoring these requirements, and the owner wants to pay less. Again, the maintenance problems are confirmed, the amount of the monetary fine is pending.

[airtwardo 6]

Or try Spaceland near Houston Texas, you can fly in with either a change in Newark or non-stop.

Weather is good here, they have a bunkhouse and with a little prior notice, can set up a ride from the airport for ya.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[TiaDanger 0]

I did my AFF in Lodi, and if you want to do it there as well, contact Ed Pawlowski at http://www.precisionskydiving.com/. He provides awesome, safe, top notch instruction.

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

[popsjumper 2]

You'd be more than welcome at the Farm.
Check out our web page.

We just recently had a jumper from England come in for AFF.
You might want to contact him with a PM here on DZ.com.
He goes by "Nigel".

He'll be back here next week...yes, all the way from England.

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[airtwardo 6]

Warm up the

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Warm up the

With 11 kegs here tonight, there's a small chance there may be some left over and I'll be damned if I'm keepin' it on ice for a week.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[aws140 0]

+1 for The Farm

I just started my AFF training there last Thursday. I took the class and successfully made my first two jumps. The DZO and everyone there are really great. With their experience, nice rate packages, and great group, I'd highly recommend checking them out.

[AndyMan 7]

There's a long list of DZ's I would recommend before Lodi. Recent FAA fines for poor maintenance are just one example of a safety culture that has long been criticized.

Low prices should not be a top consideration when picking a place to learn to skydive.

Excellent dropzones with outstanding student programs are all over the US, including - in no particular order:

Illinois - Chicagoland Skydiving Center, Skydive Chicago
California - Perris, Elsinore
Texas - Skydive Spaceland
Florida - Zephyr Hills, Deland, Sebastian


_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[DBlank 0]

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I live in England so would need to take flights, accommodation and travel from the airport into consideration.

So why not learn to skydive on your side of the pond?

"Do you really want to take advice from the guy we call Tarmac?"

[flashvortx 0]

I don't want to turn this into an "I hate Lodi" thread, but I don't think they have actually had to pay the FAA. As far as I know there have been proposed fines, but nothing has gone through. Right or wrong? I've been out of the loop for a month or two so I may be wrong.

You won't get the frills that you'll pay for at Elsinore and Perris (which are awesome DZs), but Lodi will give you great instruction with the best gear available at the best price in the world. People come from all over to hang out for a week or two and do their AFF.

[davelepka 4]

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I don't think they have actually had to pay the FAA. As far as I know there have been proposed fines, but nothing has gone through.

Ok, so there are two parts to the story -

1. The FAA found that control cables were not replaced on time (or at all), and corrosion inspections were not performed on time (or at all).

2. The FAA fined them $664,000.

If only one of them was true, which would you prefer be the reality and which the fantasy?

The fines, and the payment status of those fines should be the least of your worries.

[flashvortx 0]

If they didn't get fined, wouldn't that mean they ultimately weren't in violation?

[davelepka 4]

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If they didn't get fined, wouldn't that mean they ultimately weren't in violation?

The amount of the fines are what is in question, not the cause of the fines.

Has anyone heard about the multi-million dollar libel lawsuit that Bill Duase has filed against the FAA? I don't know about you, but if the FAA press released a story about me that I was a scofflaw, and that I endangered the lives of my staff and customers, and this was not the case, my new job would be to sue the piss out of the FAA, and retire on the winnings.

Jumpers, DZOs, pilots, city councilmen, and disgruntled ex-employees might spend their time spreading unfounded rumors about Lodi, and what happens there. The FAA, I would gather, has better things to do, and when the FAA stands up in a crowded room and yells 'fire', it's probably because something is actually on fire.

[flashvortx 0]

He spent most of last summer offering $10 jumps every Sunday, so I'm sure that he's not worried about retiring and I would find it hard to believe that he's ever been worried about his image. I assume the FAA found something they didn't like, but if the fines were dropped, then that has some meaning to it.

[brofromanomo 0]

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but if the fines were dropped, then that has some meaning to it.

WRONG! The fines weren't dropped. The FAA has been repeatedly attempting to have Bill come in for a hearing but so far he has REFUSED to account for his actions!

[davelepka 4]

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I assume the FAA found something they didn't like, but if the fines were dropped, then that has some meaning to it.

Nobody said the fines were dropped (and by dropped, I'm assuming you mean reduced). Last I heard the fines, or rather the amount of the fines, was being contested by Bill. I assume that in the land of the free, the federal govt. has some sort of appeal process available, and every citizen has a right to use it. Up against $664,000, even a 5% reduction is a nice chunk of change to keep in your pocket so you'd be a fool to not even try for a reduction.

How's this for you -

Ignoring the life limits of aileron cables and not performing corrosion inspections on wing attachmens points - The Parachute Center at Lodi - Guilty

Assigning excessive fines for maintenance violations on Otters the Parachute Center at Lodi - The FAA - Guilty

-does that make you feel better?

I really do wonder about the denial from some with regards to this issue. This isn't a 182 that barely starts and has oil streaking down the fuselage, those are some pretty clear warning signs that something isn't right.

Exactly what sound does an aileron cable make in the days before it fails? That's what you would need to make it ok to fly in a plane with timed out control cables. If they woudl broadcast their condition audibly for days before failing, you could stay away from the DZ until they snap, and come back when everything is fixed.

How about the wing attachment points? What exactly is the indicator to the jumpers that the corrosion has weakened the attachment points such that the wing is going to fail? Surely you would need to know that if the operator of the plane skipped the required corrosion inspections.

I guess if the operator isn't going to watch out for your safety, then you have to watch out for yourself. Just listen for the faint 'hum' of cables that are about to snap, and the slight 'whine' of a wing attachment that's ready to fail, and stay off the plane for awhile, right?

[brofromanomo 0]

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I don't think they have actually had to pay the FAA. As far as I know there have been proposed fines, but nothing has gone through.

Ok, so there are two parts to the story -

1. The FAA found that control cables were not replaced on time (or at all), and corrosion inspections were not performed on time (or at all).

2. The FAA fined them $664,000.

If only one of them was true, which would you prefer be the reality and which the fantasy?

The fines, and the payment status of those fines should be the least of your worries.

WRONG! Those fines should be of your utmost concern!

First, it isn't an either or situation with cables/corrosion inspections, the FAA found that he failed to do both. Don't try to obfuscate the facts. The FAA has cited Bill Dause for MAJOR safety/maintenance issues. He has been cited previously for failing to provide adequate maintenance in the past and at that time used the excuse that his safety records were stolen by former employees. The FAA bought it one time but when he didn't have repair records again a year or two later the FAA wasn't buying shit. Instead they handed out the largest fine ever to a skydiver center and the Secretary of Transportation (a presidential cabinet member who is 14th in line for the presidency) had cause to take time from his busy schedule to specifically comment about the safety concerns at Lodi. You think he is going to do that if it is a small matter?

Having recently spoken with the FAA, Bill Dause has repeatedly refused to schedule an FAA hearing to account for his FAA fines. Apparently the FAA's patience is at an end and an FAA hearing is likely no longer an option, they will be instead pursuing it in a court of law. If Bill Dause was innocent of these fines (or thought they should be reduced) he would not only have sued the FAA for slanderous statements he would taken the first chance possible to refute the FAA's claims and certainly would have chosen to do so in the more relaxed and accommodating venue of an FAA hearing. That he didn't and instead has chosen to delay until attorneys have to get involved, speaks volumes.

Moreover, this isn't the first time a Bill Dause aircraft has been formally cited for major safety concerns. Go to this link:


http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/2008/a08p0242/a08p0242.asp

This was another aircraft which Bill Dause failed to properly maintain and crashed as a result. If you look at the end, inspections were also done on another aircraft in his fleet and similar corrosion to the kind which caused this crash was found. Do you want to be in his next aircraft accident? He has now totalled several aircraft now – including
1) a P59 mustang where he couldn't control the landing and nosed in,
2) a Porter stall at low altitude due to pilot error,
3) a Beech 99 wrecked on takeoff when his dog ran onto the runway,
4) a Beech UC-45J where he lost power and clipped a power pole on landing, which the authorities suspected but werent able to prove was a result of running the plane out of fuel,
5) a Boeing e75 where he admitted to choosing an improper route over the mountains which resulted in a downdraft causing his aircraft to crash,
6) and of course that King Air T-Tail a year or two ago where the landing gear mysteriously failed),

Don't believe me look in the FAA database (mot of them are right there)....

However, Bill Dause's repeated failures to adequately maintain and fly his aircraft is but one of the items that should dissuade you from pursuing AFF at Lodi. There are at least two other HUGE reasons!

First and foremost, Lodi is not a USPA dropzone and they do not use the USPA SIM to train students. Instead they use a training method created by Bill Dause (the same guy who doesn't seem to care enough about safety to maintain his aircraft) which to my knowledge has not been altered for over a decade. It unquestionably is not up to the standard of the USPA training program which sees constant revision by the Safety & Training Board of the USPA.

Second, ALL of their AFF jumps use only one AFF instructor. I am not sure if any other DZs try to save money by only having one AFF instructor, but I know the overwhelming majority of DZs use two AFF instructors for at least the first few jumps. You are much safer having two AFF instructors to stabilize you in case you are one of those guys who really likes to move around the sky without realizing it.

Lodi maybe cheap, but just remember that you always get what you pay for. Do you really want to go skydiving in a place that has a proven history of placing the dollar before safety?

Tim Campell

[brofromanomo 0]

Assigning excessive fines for maintenance violations on Otters the Parachute Center at Lodi - The FAA - Guilty

-does that make you feel better?


IMO the reason the fine is so large is twofold:

1) Bill Dause has been cited in the past by the FAA, as a recidivist the FAA has much less patience.

2) The NTSB in its special investigation into parachute operations specifically cited improper maintenance as one of the major recurring themes in jumpship crashes around the nation. As a result I would hazard to guess that the FAA is now ready to clamp down hard on aircraft maintenance. So they decided to send a message to all the DZOs out their. And who better to make an example of than a non-USPA drop zone with a history of maintenance issues? If thats what it takes to make operators like Bill Dause realize that aircraft maintenance is an important issue than the fine isn't too large...its fully justified.

Tim Campbell

[davelepka 4]

Relax pal, I'm on your side. My post was a sarcastic response to a guy who responded to my post where I outlined the maintenance issues and the fines levied against Bill. All he replied was that to his knowledge, the fines were never really paid. He made no mention of the reason for the fines, just that they hadn't actually been paid. So I replied that the fines should be the least of his worries, implying that the maintenace problems should be of greater concern.

Did you read the rest of the thread? I think my position is pretty clear.

[thrillstalker 0]

Quote

Hi guys,

I'm desperate to get into the sport! So I've been researching places to do my AFF course. I have been recommended Lodi, California for the cheap prices and good weather. I live in England so would need to take flights, accommodation and travel from the airport into consideration.

Has anyone had any experience doing their AFF course at Lodi and can advise me on the quality of teaching, accommodation and transport from the airport? And realistically how much the total cost would be?

Thanks guys
Chris

skydive the farm for sure.

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[brofromanomo 0]

Unfortunately sarcasm doesnt carry very well in text format. I agree now after further review that you and I are making the same point...but I think you will have to admit that your wording is a bit confusing.

However without question there are apologists for Bill Dause on this site, which boggles my mind. Although I am heartily glad you are not one of them, I dare any person to defend Bill's maintenance record.

So in order to answer the initial poster's question...the quality of teaching is substandard to the USPA training, you have to take a greyhound bus from SFO/OAK all the way up to Lodi (like an hour or two),and I think he charges like a grand for AFF training.

Good luck...I hope you choose wisely. This sport can be amazing!

Tim Campbell

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi dave,

First, I do not speak for the FAA, the IRS or anyone other than myself ( and sometimes I don't have a clue as to what I am saying ).

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Up against $664,000, even a 5% reduction is a nice chunk of change to keep in your pocket so you'd be a fool to not even try for a reduction.

The flip side of that is that the fine is probably accruing interest from its due date. Bill could/can fight to hopefully get it reduced but those pesky gov't people just want their interest.

The accruing interest is what pushes a lot of people to settle ASAP, no matter what agency it is.

Its sorta like your taxes; they are usually due on 15 April ( yea, I know; the 18th this year ). You can get an extension for paying but you gotta pay the interest that begins accruing on the 15th.

Just a thought or two . . .

JerryBaumchen

[nickfrey 0]

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***

Second, ALL of their AFF jumps use only one AFF instructor. I am not sure if any other DZs try to save money by only having one AFF instructor, but I know the overwhelming majority of DZs use two AFF instructors for at least the first few jumps. You are much safer having two AFF instructors to stabilize you in case you are one of those guys who really likes to move around the sky without realizing it.

Tim Campell

This is incorrect, I had two instructors for jump 1 and 2, and An AFF rated camera flyer on the 3rd.

I and 100's of others have no problem jumping there. Getting on 6-8 loads on a weekday in April Rules. My biggest complaint, is the 5 minute, 15 minute calls... Be ready to get on the plane when you manifest!!!

[brofromanomo 0]

Well you must have gotten lucky because they usually only use one AFF instructor per student. Dont believe me, try searching youtube for Lodi AFF. All of the vids only show one instructor. Hard to dispute clear video proof to the contrary!

Tim Campbell