AFFI 0 #26 August 31, 2005 QuoteI had a bag lock- pitched at 3k, and nothing. Elbowed the container, tried to reach the bridle, no dice. Cutaway and the rsl pulled the reserve. When I hit the ground, the D bag fell out of the container. A fellow jumper told me that he saw the deployment, the container opened, full bridle extension, pc inflated and zip. This dosent make sense... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #27 August 31, 2005 QuoteLast year I had a bag lock on a borrowed rig. On the 2nd jump of the day, pitched at 3k, and nothing. Elbowed the container, tried to reach the bridle, no dice. Cutaway and the rsl pulled the reserve. Uneventful landing. When I hit the ground, the D bag fell out of the container. A fellow jumper told me that he saw the deployment, the container opened, full bridle extension, pc inflated and zip. Did I do the right thing? I'm here talking about it. sorry ...but I don't follow you here.... Bag lock?? or total???... to my line of thinking a bag lock would be,,, pilot chute inflated and lifting,, D bag outta the container but d bag staying "locked" cause it tumbled or cause the suspension lines hung up on a stow, or cause the bridle somehow entangled w/ the d bag....... so when you say that at landing the "d bag fell out" it makes me think "pc in tow".. ie total..( the container is closed OR the bag "stuck",), ( inadequate p c drag...) .........So if it's a total or a pc in tow,,, (which exerts NO force on the risers) and if the rig has riser covers,, when you "disconnect" at the 3 rings,,,how in the world is that rsl riser able to trigger the reserve...? wouldn't it be likely to stay in place??? I sure Hope that you went to your reserve handle, instinctively, and pulled it ANYWAY!! right?? .... if you did... then it looks like you did the right thing.. ...When you landed had the 3 rings of BOTH risers fully released from the large ring(s) on the harness... or just the side which activated your rsl..?? .jmy...a3914 d12122 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #28 August 31, 2005 Quote-throw - 2-3 seconds till WTF? -glance back - 1-2 seconds for brain to register -bang containers sides with both elbows hard as i can - 1-2 seconds. (emphasis mine) So many people suggesting that we elbow the container in a Pilot Chute in Tow situation. I certainly don't disagree. But I've taken the three steps above, and made them two. I have worked elbowing the container in at the same time as I'm looking over the shoulder. This cuts out the 1-2 seconds you've allotted for the brain to register. Just something to think about. Does anyone know of any disadvantage to this? What I mean to say is that I: -throw (2-3 seconds til WFT?) -elbow the container whilst glancing back. (sorta works with the motion of looking over the shoulder anyway) -if nothing, pull silver (or cutaway and pull silver if that's what you do) As I posted earlier, I once pitched a lazy throw and the pilot chute was sorta dancing around on my back. I looked over my shoulder and watched it catch air and take off for a normal deployment. Now that wasn't a pilot chute in tow, but after the fact, I realized I had elbowed the side of my container as I was glancing back. Didn't hurt my situation that I know of, but if it was a pilot chute in tow, I'd of already banged the container once. Thusly eliminating the seconds it would take to see my pilot chute and decide to bang the container... does this make sense? Can anyone see any disadvantage to this? My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #29 August 31, 2005 QuoteMy point is if you have one set of EPs for one problem (say pilot chute in tow) and another for another problem (say bag lock) then you may just run into problems reaching that decision particularly if inexperienced. Remember you are in a high stress situation (and it is high stress believe me - a high speed mal is frightening). Well considering I have had 3 malfunctions all different and i had no problem's reaching my decisions I dont think i'll change my EP's for any emergency. I knew I had altitude to try to pull my bridle and also had plenty of time to pull my reserve and was under a perfectly good canopy at around 1900 feet. that's some people's decision altitude. when i pass by 2200 which is my decision height that is when I pulled my silver. I don't think there is any problem with my problem solving skills at altitude.....especialy under pressure consdering my PC in tow was highspeed and my spinner on my stilleto was WAY high speed. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossDagley 0 #30 August 31, 2005 QuoteLast year I had a bag lock on a borrowed rig. On the 2nd jump of the day, pitched at 3k, and nothing. Elbowed the container, tried to reach the bridle, no dice. Cutaway and the rsl pulled the reserve. ...Quote Forgive me if I'm confused. You pitched, so your PC is out. You say nothing, as in, PC in tow (or bridle no longer connected). So now you're in a PC in tow. When you chopped, how did the RSL (still attached to the risers that haven't left your rig - pin still in, bag still in closed container, lines still stowed, risers still in pockets) pull your reserve pin? That doesn't make sense to me (but I'm inexperienced, so wtf do I know ). If the pin doesn't release, chopping with an RSL wont pull the reserve pin. Thats a PC in tow - surely? More to the point, if you chopped (the very force of the main leaving which pulled your RSL) how did it get back in your container to fall out on landing? Am I misreading what you're saying? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites philly51 0 #31 August 31, 2005 Please excuse me, the rsl was connected but I did cut away and I did deploy the reserve. It was a total mal. The rig was somewhat tight on me, but the owner had used it for over 100 jumps and he's bigger than I am. Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, Shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tustinr 1 #32 September 1, 2005 Previous post: Yes if the D bag was still in the container on landing then it is highly unlikely the RSL played any role in reserve deployment. --------------------------------------- Everything that happens to you in life is your teacher. The secret is to learn to sit at the feet of your life and be taught. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #33 September 1, 2005 QuotePS: At the DZ I got the first chapter of story. A jumper {with a territory } was test jumping a reserve. After he cut the main, the reserve had a pilot chute in tow! We where interrupted by the arrival of his student. I have to wait to next weeked to find out what happened. He did mention that he never did another test jump, so I suspect the reserve didn't work to well. You mean a "tertiary" or "third" parachute. Find out if he had to use the tertiary or if the reserve finally deployed. I would do more test jumps until that rig worked properly, or I would burn it in the parking lot with a little gasoline. I've seen rigs where the reserves totaled. Not a good thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #34 September 1, 2005 Quote My point is if you have one set of EPs for one problem (say pilot chute in tow) and another for another problem (say bag lock) then you may just run into problems reaching that decision particularly if inexperienced. Remember you are in a high stress situation (and it is high stress believe me - a high speed mal is frightening). Skydiving can be complicated. Train accordingly. I have had everything but a horseshoe malfunction. I used the proper procedures each time with each malfunction, including several tandem malfunctions. Train hard, review, stay current. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tustinr 1 #35 September 2, 2005 Couldn't agree more. Educate yourself - read safety articles in the relevent magazines Parachutist, Skydiving Magazine etc. Practice those drills until you can do them in your sleep. You just never know when you are going to need them - shit happens when you least expect it to ! --------------------------------------- Everything that happens to you in life is your teacher. The secret is to learn to sit at the feet of your life and be taught. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mr.Bill 0 #36 September 2, 2005 I once took an old f111 PC that was going to be replaced, and on the way home from the DZ wrapped the bridal around my hand and pitched it out the window at 40 MPH. Almost broke my arm, I was all over the brakes trying to slow down. Try this yourself some time at speed of less than 40 MPH then you decide if you can apply more force by hand than a fully inflated PC at 120 MPH. Moral of the story is if the PC is fully inflated you are not going to be able to pull the pin by hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nate_1979 9 #37 September 2, 2005 QuoteI once took an old f111 PC that was going to be replaced, and on the way home from the DZ wrapped the bridal around my hand and pitched it out the window at 40 MPH. Almost broke my arm, I was all over the brakes trying to slow down. Crazy skydivers! sheesh.... FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NSEMN8R 0 #38 September 2, 2005 Here's a new one (to me anyways). I went to the WFFC this year with a friend that has about 60 jumps. I happened to walk up while she was talking to this guy from Taylor, IL who was telling her that, if she should ever get a pilot chute in tow, that she should do a few barrel rolls to wind the bridle around her body before she dumps her reserve so that it won't have anything to entangle with. At first I thought he was just fucking with her, but it ends up that he was dead serious. He says that's the way they're taught to deal with it at their DZ. Is it just me, or is that one of the stupidest things you can think of to tell a new jumper? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites goose491 0 #39 September 2, 2005 QuoteIs it just me, or is that one of the stupidest things you can think of to tell a new jumper? It's not just you. That is an Extremely stupid thing to tell a new jumper . If there is even a remote chance of instability in the roll, you will increase your chances of entanglement.... around the reserve or around your neck! That's nothing I have ever thought about though... **with enough altitude** I might just try it if/when the opportunity (read: Hopefully not) ever arises. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #40 September 2, 2005 That's bad enough advice I'd be calling the DZO where she jumps to find out if that's what they actually teach there. I'd ask her who her taught her FJC. (Shes new - what if she mistakes a pc in tow for a bag-lock and barrels rolls that before chopping?) I'd wonder what else she was taught that'll kill her or me for being on the plane with such a wrongly trained skydiver. I'd also ask her if she knows what a SIM is, and recommend that she look through the EPs discussed in it. If they all dramatically differ or seem wierdly different I'd steer her to a different dz to talk to the instructors there. I like you still wonder if someone was just fkng with her, figuring she'd not take it seriosly. Or maybe fkng with her, then got distracted and pulled off to do a tandem or pack for a quick turn or something and never got back to her to un-fk her. You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RogerRamjet 0 #41 September 2, 2005 QuoteI once took an old f111 PC that was going to be replaced, and on the way home from the DZ wrapped the bridal around my hand and pitched it out the window at 40 MPH. Almost broke my arm, I was all over the brakes trying to slow down. Try this yourself some time at speed of less than 40 MPH then you decide if you can apply more force by hand than a fully inflated PC at 120 MPH.Quote Hmmm, Bobby Gray and I tested the first hand deploy pilot chutes for Booth. Guess how we did it? That's right, we held them out the window of the car with a fish scale to see how much pull they had. We tested up to 80 mph. Don't recall thinking my arm was in jepardy of breaking... Quote Moral of the story is if the PC is fully inflated you are not going to be able to pull the pin by hand. Glad I didn't read your post before actually doing just that.... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,473 #42 September 2, 2005 >if she should ever get a pilot chute in tow, that she should do a few > barrel rolls to wind the bridle around her body before she dumps her > reserve so that it won't have anything to entangle with. Good idea! And if she gets the bridle around the reserve container, then the reserve won't come out. And if the reserve doesn't deploy, she won't have to worry about an entanglement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EvilLurker 2 #43 September 2, 2005 Quotewrapped the bridal around my hand and pitched it out the window at 40 MPH. Almost broke my arm, I was all over the brakes trying to slow down. I saw the same thing coming back in the van from our "remote" DZ to the airport once. At ~40mph the guy had his shoulder almost dislocated by the PC. If he had let go, we would have had a main deployed out the window. It had his arm pinned back along the car and he was screaming "Stop!". The PC may have more drag being in the compressed slipstream of a car than in free air, but at 120 mph there is a LOT of force on the bridle. "we held them out the window of the car with a fish scale to see how much pull they had. We tested up to 80 mph." How much drag did they have? 80>120 mph should be a drag increase factor of 2.25, I believe. (Drag increases as the square of the velocity). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RogerRamjet 0 #44 September 2, 2005 All three pilot chutes tested (30", 36", and 40") pegged the 50lbs scale at anything over about 35mph. However, I can tell you that the 30" was not sufficient in size as I found out a few months later when I jumped it and had it in tow. Reached back and pulled the bridle free by hand, normal deployment after that. Booth figured at the time (and he was right as usual) that the 36" would "be about right." That's what we went with on the production Wonderhogs. I just happened on the 30" a few months later and decided to try it on my own with less than optimal results... As for "almost broke his arm" and "almost dislocated his shoulder", all I can say is there was certainly considerable drag on the pilots chutes, but unless you weren't ready for it, I don't think bodily injury was going to happen. Of course that was in 1975 and I was stronger and dumber then ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,473 #45 September 2, 2005 > but unless you weren't ready for it, I don't think bodily injury was going to happen. I recall driving up and down a road at 20mph with various reserve PC's hanging off a boom, connected to a scale. All went well until I tried a 42" BASE PC, which broke the boom (and put a big dent in the side of the car.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RogerRamjet 0 #46 September 2, 2005 Quote> but unless you weren't ready for it, I don't think bodily injury was going to happen. I recall driving up and down a road at 20mph with various reserve PC's hanging off a boom, connected to a scale. All went well until I tried a 42" BASE PC, which broke the boom (and put a big dent in the side of the car.) I don't doubt that. I expect your PCs were not using 1975 era lowpo materials though.... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,473 #47 September 2, 2005 >I expect your PCs were not using 1975 era lowpo materials though.... Nope. In fact the BASE PC was a brand new ZP one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites altichick 1 #48 September 2, 2005 Had one just a few weeks ago... (first cutaway)... and I cutaway before I pulled the reserve and was glad I did. The main pilot chute had managed to get wrapped in the bridle and tied itself in a perfect knot and didn't pull the pin (I didn't try to reach back and clear it) but once the reserve was deployed the main came out too. Not really relevant to this thread....but the rest of the story.... the main pilot chute got lodged in the reserve risers but the main stayed in the bag (thanks to the packer who had switched my rubber bands and double stowed them) and I was able to get the pilot chute out of the risers and drop the main (still in it's bag) over the DZ. Can't think of any reason why it would be better NOT to cutaway. (Someone feel free to correct me here) If the pin isn't going to move (misrouted bridle etc) then cutting away wont really affect the reserve deployment or reserve risers but if there's a chance the pin *could* come out once the reserve is deployed then cutting away is probably a better option? Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EvilLurker 2 #49 September 2, 2005 Quotebut unless you weren't ready for it, I don't think bodily injury was going to happen. Believe me, he wasn't ready for it. Once we got the van stopped, he wasn't ready for the lecture, either. If that Manta 290 would have gotten out the window, it would have gotten pretty interesting, I bet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #50 September 5, 2005 Quotebut the rest of the story.... the main pilot chute got lodged in the reserve risers but the main stayed in the bag (thanks to the packer who had switched my rubber bands and double stowed them) and I was able to get the pilot chute out of the risers and drop the main (still in it's bag) over the DZ. to me this is one of those things that scares me...what if the main ended up inflating and the risers took off upwards snagging your reserve slider and fowling your reserve. this is the reason I do NOT cut away a PC in tow. I can handle two out...BUT I can't handled a fowled reserve due to the risers leaving up and away like that. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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philly51 0 #31 August 31, 2005 Please excuse me, the rsl was connected but I did cut away and I did deploy the reserve. It was a total mal. The rig was somewhat tight on me, but the owner had used it for over 100 jumps and he's bigger than I am. Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, Shouting "...holy shit...what a ride!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tustinr 1 #32 September 1, 2005 Previous post: Yes if the D bag was still in the container on landing then it is highly unlikely the RSL played any role in reserve deployment. --------------------------------------- Everything that happens to you in life is your teacher. The secret is to learn to sit at the feet of your life and be taught. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #33 September 1, 2005 QuotePS: At the DZ I got the first chapter of story. A jumper {with a territory } was test jumping a reserve. After he cut the main, the reserve had a pilot chute in tow! We where interrupted by the arrival of his student. I have to wait to next weeked to find out what happened. He did mention that he never did another test jump, so I suspect the reserve didn't work to well. You mean a "tertiary" or "third" parachute. Find out if he had to use the tertiary or if the reserve finally deployed. I would do more test jumps until that rig worked properly, or I would burn it in the parking lot with a little gasoline. I've seen rigs where the reserves totaled. Not a good thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #34 September 1, 2005 Quote My point is if you have one set of EPs for one problem (say pilot chute in tow) and another for another problem (say bag lock) then you may just run into problems reaching that decision particularly if inexperienced. Remember you are in a high stress situation (and it is high stress believe me - a high speed mal is frightening). Skydiving can be complicated. Train accordingly. I have had everything but a horseshoe malfunction. I used the proper procedures each time with each malfunction, including several tandem malfunctions. Train hard, review, stay current. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tustinr 1 #35 September 2, 2005 Couldn't agree more. Educate yourself - read safety articles in the relevent magazines Parachutist, Skydiving Magazine etc. Practice those drills until you can do them in your sleep. You just never know when you are going to need them - shit happens when you least expect it to ! --------------------------------------- Everything that happens to you in life is your teacher. The secret is to learn to sit at the feet of your life and be taught. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Bill 0 #36 September 2, 2005 I once took an old f111 PC that was going to be replaced, and on the way home from the DZ wrapped the bridal around my hand and pitched it out the window at 40 MPH. Almost broke my arm, I was all over the brakes trying to slow down. Try this yourself some time at speed of less than 40 MPH then you decide if you can apply more force by hand than a fully inflated PC at 120 MPH. Moral of the story is if the PC is fully inflated you are not going to be able to pull the pin by hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #37 September 2, 2005 QuoteI once took an old f111 PC that was going to be replaced, and on the way home from the DZ wrapped the bridal around my hand and pitched it out the window at 40 MPH. Almost broke my arm, I was all over the brakes trying to slow down. Crazy skydivers! sheesh.... FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #38 September 2, 2005 Here's a new one (to me anyways). I went to the WFFC this year with a friend that has about 60 jumps. I happened to walk up while she was talking to this guy from Taylor, IL who was telling her that, if she should ever get a pilot chute in tow, that she should do a few barrel rolls to wind the bridle around her body before she dumps her reserve so that it won't have anything to entangle with. At first I thought he was just fucking with her, but it ends up that he was dead serious. He says that's the way they're taught to deal with it at their DZ. Is it just me, or is that one of the stupidest things you can think of to tell a new jumper? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #39 September 2, 2005 QuoteIs it just me, or is that one of the stupidest things you can think of to tell a new jumper? It's not just you. That is an Extremely stupid thing to tell a new jumper . If there is even a remote chance of instability in the roll, you will increase your chances of entanglement.... around the reserve or around your neck! That's nothing I have ever thought about though... **with enough altitude** I might just try it if/when the opportunity (read: Hopefully not) ever arises. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #40 September 2, 2005 That's bad enough advice I'd be calling the DZO where she jumps to find out if that's what they actually teach there. I'd ask her who her taught her FJC. (Shes new - what if she mistakes a pc in tow for a bag-lock and barrels rolls that before chopping?) I'd wonder what else she was taught that'll kill her or me for being on the plane with such a wrongly trained skydiver. I'd also ask her if she knows what a SIM is, and recommend that she look through the EPs discussed in it. If they all dramatically differ or seem wierdly different I'd steer her to a different dz to talk to the instructors there. I like you still wonder if someone was just fkng with her, figuring she'd not take it seriosly. Or maybe fkng with her, then got distracted and pulled off to do a tandem or pack for a quick turn or something and never got back to her to un-fk her. You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #41 September 2, 2005 QuoteI once took an old f111 PC that was going to be replaced, and on the way home from the DZ wrapped the bridal around my hand and pitched it out the window at 40 MPH. Almost broke my arm, I was all over the brakes trying to slow down. Try this yourself some time at speed of less than 40 MPH then you decide if you can apply more force by hand than a fully inflated PC at 120 MPH.Quote Hmmm, Bobby Gray and I tested the first hand deploy pilot chutes for Booth. Guess how we did it? That's right, we held them out the window of the car with a fish scale to see how much pull they had. We tested up to 80 mph. Don't recall thinking my arm was in jepardy of breaking... Quote Moral of the story is if the PC is fully inflated you are not going to be able to pull the pin by hand. Glad I didn't read your post before actually doing just that.... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,473 #42 September 2, 2005 >if she should ever get a pilot chute in tow, that she should do a few > barrel rolls to wind the bridle around her body before she dumps her > reserve so that it won't have anything to entangle with. Good idea! And if she gets the bridle around the reserve container, then the reserve won't come out. And if the reserve doesn't deploy, she won't have to worry about an entanglement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EvilLurker 2 #43 September 2, 2005 Quotewrapped the bridal around my hand and pitched it out the window at 40 MPH. Almost broke my arm, I was all over the brakes trying to slow down. I saw the same thing coming back in the van from our "remote" DZ to the airport once. At ~40mph the guy had his shoulder almost dislocated by the PC. If he had let go, we would have had a main deployed out the window. It had his arm pinned back along the car and he was screaming "Stop!". The PC may have more drag being in the compressed slipstream of a car than in free air, but at 120 mph there is a LOT of force on the bridle. "we held them out the window of the car with a fish scale to see how much pull they had. We tested up to 80 mph." How much drag did they have? 80>120 mph should be a drag increase factor of 2.25, I believe. (Drag increases as the square of the velocity). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RogerRamjet 0 #44 September 2, 2005 All three pilot chutes tested (30", 36", and 40") pegged the 50lbs scale at anything over about 35mph. However, I can tell you that the 30" was not sufficient in size as I found out a few months later when I jumped it and had it in tow. Reached back and pulled the bridle free by hand, normal deployment after that. Booth figured at the time (and he was right as usual) that the 36" would "be about right." That's what we went with on the production Wonderhogs. I just happened on the 30" a few months later and decided to try it on my own with less than optimal results... As for "almost broke his arm" and "almost dislocated his shoulder", all I can say is there was certainly considerable drag on the pilots chutes, but unless you weren't ready for it, I don't think bodily injury was going to happen. Of course that was in 1975 and I was stronger and dumber then ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,473 #45 September 2, 2005 > but unless you weren't ready for it, I don't think bodily injury was going to happen. I recall driving up and down a road at 20mph with various reserve PC's hanging off a boom, connected to a scale. All went well until I tried a 42" BASE PC, which broke the boom (and put a big dent in the side of the car.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RogerRamjet 0 #46 September 2, 2005 Quote> but unless you weren't ready for it, I don't think bodily injury was going to happen. I recall driving up and down a road at 20mph with various reserve PC's hanging off a boom, connected to a scale. All went well until I tried a 42" BASE PC, which broke the boom (and put a big dent in the side of the car.) I don't doubt that. I expect your PCs were not using 1975 era lowpo materials though.... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,473 #47 September 2, 2005 >I expect your PCs were not using 1975 era lowpo materials though.... Nope. In fact the BASE PC was a brand new ZP one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites altichick 1 #48 September 2, 2005 Had one just a few weeks ago... (first cutaway)... and I cutaway before I pulled the reserve and was glad I did. The main pilot chute had managed to get wrapped in the bridle and tied itself in a perfect knot and didn't pull the pin (I didn't try to reach back and clear it) but once the reserve was deployed the main came out too. Not really relevant to this thread....but the rest of the story.... the main pilot chute got lodged in the reserve risers but the main stayed in the bag (thanks to the packer who had switched my rubber bands and double stowed them) and I was able to get the pilot chute out of the risers and drop the main (still in it's bag) over the DZ. Can't think of any reason why it would be better NOT to cutaway. (Someone feel free to correct me here) If the pin isn't going to move (misrouted bridle etc) then cutting away wont really affect the reserve deployment or reserve risers but if there's a chance the pin *could* come out once the reserve is deployed then cutting away is probably a better option? Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EvilLurker 2 #49 September 2, 2005 Quotebut unless you weren't ready for it, I don't think bodily injury was going to happen. Believe me, he wasn't ready for it. Once we got the van stopped, he wasn't ready for the lecture, either. If that Manta 290 would have gotten out the window, it would have gotten pretty interesting, I bet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #50 September 5, 2005 Quotebut the rest of the story.... the main pilot chute got lodged in the reserve risers but the main stayed in the bag (thanks to the packer who had switched my rubber bands and double stowed them) and I was able to get the pilot chute out of the risers and drop the main (still in it's bag) over the DZ. to me this is one of those things that scares me...what if the main ended up inflating and the risers took off upwards snagging your reserve slider and fowling your reserve. this is the reason I do NOT cut away a PC in tow. I can handle two out...BUT I can't handled a fowled reserve due to the risers leaving up and away like that. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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billvon 2,473 #42 September 2, 2005 >if she should ever get a pilot chute in tow, that she should do a few > barrel rolls to wind the bridle around her body before she dumps her > reserve so that it won't have anything to entangle with. Good idea! And if she gets the bridle around the reserve container, then the reserve won't come out. And if the reserve doesn't deploy, she won't have to worry about an entanglement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilLurker 2 #43 September 2, 2005 Quotewrapped the bridal around my hand and pitched it out the window at 40 MPH. Almost broke my arm, I was all over the brakes trying to slow down. I saw the same thing coming back in the van from our "remote" DZ to the airport once. At ~40mph the guy had his shoulder almost dislocated by the PC. If he had let go, we would have had a main deployed out the window. It had his arm pinned back along the car and he was screaming "Stop!". The PC may have more drag being in the compressed slipstream of a car than in free air, but at 120 mph there is a LOT of force on the bridle. "we held them out the window of the car with a fish scale to see how much pull they had. We tested up to 80 mph." How much drag did they have? 80>120 mph should be a drag increase factor of 2.25, I believe. (Drag increases as the square of the velocity). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #44 September 2, 2005 All three pilot chutes tested (30", 36", and 40") pegged the 50lbs scale at anything over about 35mph. However, I can tell you that the 30" was not sufficient in size as I found out a few months later when I jumped it and had it in tow. Reached back and pulled the bridle free by hand, normal deployment after that. Booth figured at the time (and he was right as usual) that the 36" would "be about right." That's what we went with on the production Wonderhogs. I just happened on the 30" a few months later and decided to try it on my own with less than optimal results... As for "almost broke his arm" and "almost dislocated his shoulder", all I can say is there was certainly considerable drag on the pilots chutes, but unless you weren't ready for it, I don't think bodily injury was going to happen. Of course that was in 1975 and I was stronger and dumber then ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #45 September 2, 2005 > but unless you weren't ready for it, I don't think bodily injury was going to happen. I recall driving up and down a road at 20mph with various reserve PC's hanging off a boom, connected to a scale. All went well until I tried a 42" BASE PC, which broke the boom (and put a big dent in the side of the car.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #46 September 2, 2005 Quote> but unless you weren't ready for it, I don't think bodily injury was going to happen. I recall driving up and down a road at 20mph with various reserve PC's hanging off a boom, connected to a scale. All went well until I tried a 42" BASE PC, which broke the boom (and put a big dent in the side of the car.) I don't doubt that. I expect your PCs were not using 1975 era lowpo materials though.... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,473 #47 September 2, 2005 >I expect your PCs were not using 1975 era lowpo materials though.... Nope. In fact the BASE PC was a brand new ZP one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
altichick 1 #48 September 2, 2005 Had one just a few weeks ago... (first cutaway)... and I cutaway before I pulled the reserve and was glad I did. The main pilot chute had managed to get wrapped in the bridle and tied itself in a perfect knot and didn't pull the pin (I didn't try to reach back and clear it) but once the reserve was deployed the main came out too. Not really relevant to this thread....but the rest of the story.... the main pilot chute got lodged in the reserve risers but the main stayed in the bag (thanks to the packer who had switched my rubber bands and double stowed them) and I was able to get the pilot chute out of the risers and drop the main (still in it's bag) over the DZ. Can't think of any reason why it would be better NOT to cutaway. (Someone feel free to correct me here) If the pin isn't going to move (misrouted bridle etc) then cutting away wont really affect the reserve deployment or reserve risers but if there's a chance the pin *could* come out once the reserve is deployed then cutting away is probably a better option? Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilLurker 2 #49 September 2, 2005 Quotebut unless you weren't ready for it, I don't think bodily injury was going to happen. Believe me, he wasn't ready for it. Once we got the van stopped, he wasn't ready for the lecture, either. If that Manta 290 would have gotten out the window, it would have gotten pretty interesting, I bet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #50 September 5, 2005 Quotebut the rest of the story.... the main pilot chute got lodged in the reserve risers but the main stayed in the bag (thanks to the packer who had switched my rubber bands and double stowed them) and I was able to get the pilot chute out of the risers and drop the main (still in it's bag) over the DZ. to me this is one of those things that scares me...what if the main ended up inflating and the risers took off upwards snagging your reserve slider and fowling your reserve. this is the reason I do NOT cut away a PC in tow. I can handle two out...BUT I can't handled a fowled reserve due to the risers leaving up and away like that. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
