USPA pays for LB attorney's fees

[NickDG 23]

I'd forgotten Jerry and Sherry's offspring was on this site even though I did have this conversation with him some years ago. My intent wasn't to slam anyone's parents, and I should have softened my wording. My issue with the Shrimshers (Jerry specifically) was his vitriolic position against B.A.S.E. jumping in the early days. In any case my argument with either of them is political and not personal, and if I offended anyone, I'm sorry . . .

If it's any solace in a few hours I'll be at the dentist under the drill so I'll be getting somewhat paid back . . .

NickD

[BillyVance 34]

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I think it went something like this:

ED: You're Fired.

LB: You can't fire me, I have been on the take for decades.

ED: sorry, but we just raised the dues on all members and I don't even know what you do or how much we pay you.

LB: doesn't matter, if you fire me I will sue you. That will cost the membership more than if you just let me keep my phoney-baloney job.

ED: But you don't even come to work, and you live 3000 miles away from the office.

LB: so what, I have been doing this for years, why make this an issue now?

ED: Ok you are right, you can have your job back and here is $1000 bucks for your lawyer.

LB: That is more like it, and here is my travel bill for last month.

See you at the summer meeting.

I like your version.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[popsjumper 2]

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...My issue with the Shrimshers (Jerry specifically) was his vitriolic position against B.A.S.E. jumping in the early days.

Even J will verify that!
Jerry: "All B.A.S.E. jumpers are criminals."


Personally, I think jerry must have had a major financial interest in airplanes.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[upndownshop 0]

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I'd forgotten Jerry and Sherry's offspring was on this site even though I did have this conversation with him some years ago. My intent wasn't to slam anyone's parents, and I should have softened my wording. My issue with the Shrimshers (Jerry specifically) was his vitriolic position against B.A.S.E. jumping in the early days. In any case my argument with either of them is political and not personal, and if I offended anyone, I'm sorry . . .

If it's any solace in a few hours I'll be at the dentist under the drill so I'll be getting somewhat paid back . . .

NickD

Yo Nick, its all good. You are correct in both cases, you and I have had a conversation about his opinion on BASE back then, I believe he said they were all criminals. Personally if he were here today I think he would love the wingsuit base jumping, even though he would not like the fact it is illegal, I think he would enjoy the beauty of it. He was all about human flight.
Everyone has an opinion and you are not the first to express one in regards to them (not that there were many negative ones) but I wont lose any sleep over it. BTW, not sure if you were thinking this, but Sherry is still alive.

May the dentist drill you deep, naaah, hope it goes well.
Be well

[NickDG 23]

Just got back for the dentist, man, I was in the chair for an hour and thought he was going to strike oil!

It was brutal!

NickD

[topdocker 0]

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Just got back for the dentist, man, I was in the chair for an hour and thought he was going to strike oil!

It was brutal!

NickD

Next time, be nice to your dentist and maybe they will give you some anesthetic!

top (a dentist)

Jump more, post less!

[3331 119]

When USPA Executive Director Jerry Rouillard fired Kevin Gibson (Director of Publications) the BOD did not interfere.

May we get this thread back on subject. Please

I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving.

[NickDG 23]

Yes, it actually wasn't too bad. My problem is I've sort of been neglecting my teeth since my long time dentist bounced at Perris back in 2000 . . .

Okay back on topic! Wasn't Gibson fired over a stunt he pulled in the Otter at his own DZ? (Forgive me if I'm mistaken!) But I think I remember it was with a plane load of jumpers aboard and unknown to the pilot he reached into the cockpit and killed the fuel to one of the engines? He later said it was a "live drill" or something wacky like that?

NickD

[3331 119]

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Yes, it actually wasn't too bad. My problem is I've sort of been neglecting my teeth since my long time dentist bounced at Perris back in 2000 . . .

Okay back on topic! Wasn't Gibson fired over a stunt he pulled in the Otter at his own DZ? (Forgive me if I'm mistaken!) But I think I remember it was with a plane load of jumpers aboard and unknown to the pilot he reached into the cockpit and killed the fuel to one of the engines? He later said it was a "live drill" or something wacky like that?

NickD

Good memory Nick---not the same incident.

Jerry Rouillard fired Kevin Gibson at USPA HQ a year earlier. The BOD didn't even mention it at the next meeting.

The USPA Constitution and by-laws forbid the BOD from getting involved in the Executive Directors decisions on "employees".

I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving.

[SkydiveJack 1]

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To the best of my knowledge, his telecommuting is not reimbursed, but travel to USPA events is.
But the kicker is that his flights are free because his wife is a flight attendant.
It's kind of like collecting the money if you use frequent flyer miles.

.

Wait a second.

Are you saying that when Larry Bagley travels on USPA business, he will fly for free when possible on his wife's airline, then charge USPA for what the cost of the flight would have been?

Are you saying that he is profiting by his pass riding privilege and putting our membership money in his pocket?

[MakeItHappen 15]

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To the best of my knowledge, his telecommuting is not reimbursed, but travel to USPA events is.
But the kicker is that his flights are free because his wife is a flight attendant.
It's kind of like collecting the money if you use frequent flyer miles.

.

Wait a second.

Are you saying that when Larry Bagley travels on USPA business, he will fly for free when possible on his wife's airline, then charge USPA for what the cost of the flight would have been?

Are you saying that he is profiting by his pass riding privilege and putting our membership money in his pocket?

Yup to both questions.
And he's been doing it for a hell of a long time, even before CN let him telecommute.
I also know that some board members do the same thing with FF miles.
I've worked for companies that required you to book through the company so that the FF miles get credited to the company and you could not use them for your benefit. I do know people that work for companies that let you use FF miles anyway you want to.

Another charge that USPA incurs is the forwarding of phone calls to LB when he is in UT.
If you call HQ and ask to speak to LB, the call goes over to UT and that extra long distance charges gets billed to USPA.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[riggerpaul 1]

If the USPA rules provide for travel expenses, then LB, or anybody else who is covered by the rule for that matter, is supposed to get his travel paid for.

Frequent Flyer miles, or even free flights based on his wife's employment, have nothing to do with it.

If USPA has rules that say they pay for the travel, you should not be expected to foot the bill, no matter what form your payment might have taken.

On the other hand, if this is about rules being broken, then have at it. If he got USPA to pay for a First Class seat when the rules allow for Coach, go after him for sure.

The re-hiring matter seems to be one of rules being broken, and if that is true, then we have a legitimate beef.

But if there are no rules being broken on the matter of having USPA paying for the travel in question, then don't make it out to be some sort of crime.

If USPA would pay someone else for the same travel, then don't fault LB for getting equal treatment.

[davelepka 4]

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If USPA would pay someone else for the same travel, then don't fault LB for getting equal treatment.

The real question is if another person could do the job for less money. What if that same person was willing to do the jov from USPA HQ, further reducing the costs invloved with whatever it is he does?

This appears to be just another case of the 'USPA way' which makes no sense to anyone but the people who profit from it.

Why doesn't the USPA arrange travel, and keep frequent flyer miles for the organization? Sooner or later it will build to the point somebody will ride for free, and save the membership a few dollars. Instead, they let this guy make his own arrangements, and because he gets a deal on travel, he gets to profit above and beyond his normal salary, on the backs of the members, and that's bullshit. Buy his ticket for him, and mail it to him. His travel expenses are covered, and the USPA get the benefits.

On that same note, how many employees who work out of HQ attend each board meeting? It was to be handful, at least 5 or 6, right?

Why not hold all of the board meetings Va., at a hotel down the street from HQ, and save the membership the travel costs of all of those people. They can drive to the meetings in the morning, and sleep in their own homes. No airfare, no rental cars, no hotel bill.

What does is cost to send one person to a board meeting? $1000? You could shave $5000 off the price of each board meeting by holding them close to HQ.

On top of that, I would have to bet that they could strike a great deal with a nearby hotel for a block rate on rooms if they were going to be reserving those same rooms on a regular basis. They get a block rate now, but that's based on a single event. If the recurring event was to be held at the same place, I'm sure the hotel would be willing to deal.

As much as I hate to say it, what we need is a Ross Perot runnning the USPA. If there was a businessman running the place like a business, the no-brainers I mentioned above would have been capitalized on a long time ago.

As it sits now, there's no motivation for the management to do anything but scrape by. Let's face it, the USPA is essentailly living paycheck to paycheck, and nobody there has any reason to change that. Why bother buildign up a 'savings' and getting your head above water when your own paycheck is always the same, and the long term benefits of running a tighter ship won't effect you because your employ will eventaully end.

How about a performance based incentive program up there at HQ? If you cannot increase revenue and lower costs, your salary is at the bottom and of the appropriate payscale. If you maintain revenue and costs, your salary moves up to the middle of the range, and of course, if you can both increase revenue and decrease costs, you become the highest paid whatever in USPA history.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

There you go with that logic stuff.

Hell, just put me in charge of travel and let me keep what I save.

[SkydiveJack 1]

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If the USPA rules provide for travel expenses, then LB, or anybody else who is covered by the rule for that matter, is supposed to get his travel paid for.

Frequent Flyer miles, or even free flights based on his wife's employment, have nothing to do with it.

If USPA has rules that say they pay for the travel, you should not be expected to foot the bill, no matter what form your payment might have taken.

On the other hand, if this is about rules being broken, then have at it. If he got USPA to pay for a First Class seat when the rules allow for Coach, go after him for sure.

The re-hiring matter seems to be one of rules being broken, and if that is true, then we have a legitimate beef.

But if there are no rules being broken on the matter of having USPA paying for the travel in question, then don't make it out to be some sort of crime.

If USPA would pay someone else for the same travel, then don't fault LB for getting equal treatment.

I don't know anything about the circumstances are over Larry Bagley being fired, re-hired and given $1000 for legal expenses. Sounds like another USPA boondoggle.

But I do know about having a wife who works for a major airline and me getting pass riding privileges (free flights on a space available basis). It is a privilege that is supposed to be used for personal use, not for profit.

Look at it this way; it is stealing from the airline. Let’s say you had a company that makes some product. As a benefit to your employees you give them and their spouses a certain amount of this product free every year for their personal use. You gain from having employees that enjoy working for you because of their pay and benefits.

Now you find out that an employees spouse is taking this free product and selling it to someone for normal retail cost. You are now losing a retail sale and the associated profit that would have been paid to your company. And to top it off, the employees spouse is making a 100% profit.

Now if you ran this company and you found out that an employees spouse was doing this, what would you do? If a Delta Airlines employees spouse was doing this, and the company found out about it and had proof, they would cut off the spouses pass ride privileges so fast it would make your head spin.


.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

It's kind of funny when you think about it. We can't keep the leaders of an organization the size of USPA under control but there are some that think they can waltz in and fix the US government.

[airtwardo 6]

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It's kind of funny when you think about it. We can't keep the leaders of an organization the size of USPA under control but there are some that think they can waltz in and fix the US government.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[DSE 3]

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If the USPA rules provide for travel expenses, then LB, or anybody else who is covered by the rule for that matter, is supposed to get his travel paid for.

Frequent Flyer miles, or even free flights based on his wife's employment, have nothing to do with it.

If USPA has rules that say they pay for the travel, you should not be expected to foot the bill, no matter what form your payment might have taken.

On the other hand, if this is about rules being broken, then have at it. If he got USPA to pay for a First Class seat when the rules allow for Coach, go after him for sure.

The re-hiring matter seems to be one of rules being broken, and if that is true, then we have a legitimate beef.

But if there are no rules being broken on the matter of having USPA paying for the travel in question, then don't make it out to be some sort of crime.

If USPA would pay someone else for the same travel, then don't fault LB for getting equal treatment.

Please don't bring common sense to an discussion that is predominantly based on supposition, hearsay, and educated guesses.
Is there any evidence that LB was ever fired vs someone simply suggesting it happened?Any evidence that travel is being improperly paid for. Any indication of the cost (if any) of forwarding phone calls to a cell phone?

Frankly, if there is a BOD member that can rack up enough free miles from the travel they get from USPA, who cares? Call it a very small bonus for the volunteer work they do. They don't get paid, so gee whiz, if they get a free ticket after flying a few hundred thousand miles...good on them, they probably deserve it. It cost the membership nothing, and if they turned the ticket back in...the membership would gain back a few hundred bucks. Whoopee. I'd be stunned if the two flights taken by RD's or NB persons adds up to a free ticket during a term.

[diablopilot 2]

Dave, I agree with much of your rant, however I would like to point out there is a USPA STAFF that is trying to cut costs and run an efficient business, and they work very hard at it.

On the other hand there is a USPA BOD that sometimes helps with that, and sometimes hurts that effort.

Just something to remember when people get up in arms about what the "USPA" does.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[gemini 0]

If USPA is paying for expenses not incurred, the "reimbursement" is taxable income to the board member. Is USPA filing a form 1099 for these "reimbursements"? Fine is $50 for each 1099 not filed. If there is no dollare amount that was paid by the BOD it should not be reimbursed. Just ask the IRS.

Blue skies,

Jim

[mjosparky 3]

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If USPA is paying for expenses not incurred, the "reimbursement" is taxable income to the board member. Is USPA filing a form 1099 for these "reimbursements"? Fine is $50 for each 1099 not filed. If there is no dollare amount that was paid by the BOD it should not be reimbursed. Just ask the IRS.

And what would you know about such things?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Bolas 5]

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If USPA is paying for expenses not incurred, the "reimbursement" is taxable income to the board member. Is USPA filing a form 1099 for these "reimbursements"? Fine is $50 for each 1099 not filed. If there is no dollare amount that was paid by the BOD it should not be reimbursed. Just ask the IRS.

Wouldn't that depend on if they were doing travel reimbursements or stipends?

If simply a stipend, it doesn't matter how much or little a person pays for travel. If reimbursement, just change the policy so receipts are required.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Krip 2]

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If USPA is paying for expenses not incurred, the "reimbursement" is taxable income to the board member. Is USPA filing a form 1099 for these "reimbursements"? Fine is $50 for each 1099 not filed. If there is no dollare amount that was paid by the BOD it should not be reimbursed. Just ask the IRS.

Wouldn't that depend on if they were doing travel reimbursements or stipends?

If simply a stipend, it doesn't matter how much or little a person pays for travel. If reimbursement, just change the policy so receipts are required.

Dr Mr Bolas

Started reading this thread noticed the origional date. Fast fwd to the last post 11 month's later.

Mr Bolas you are slick evil man.

I salute you

One Jump Wonder

[tonybrogdon 0]

well said Jim!

there is a lot of questions unanswered.

Tony Brogdon
D-12855