Heli jump questions

[rippedbx 0]

So it looks like I got hooked up with someone with a heli that wants me to jump out of it. He's never had anyone jump out of it and I've never done it either. He's a little worried about stability. Is there anything specific I have to know? How I exit, etc.

He's got an md-500.

Also anyone have a reference where I can find FAA or USPA rules on this kinda stuff? The pilot's understanding was that if it is outside the city, you just have to get landowner's permission to land and you have to radio other aircraft around?
I looked up under uspa.org and couldn't find the info. Any other info is appreciated!!

[AggieDave 6]

I'm willing to bet if you talked to folks at your local DZ there are probably at least a few people who have jumped out of some sort of helicopter. I'm also willing to bet they could help you figure out everything that you need to do to make the jump safely and legally.

You may want to get a few more jumps under your belt first, though.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[rippedbx 0]

Thanks I think I'll give my dz a call about it. And I've got about 100 parachute jumps now and I feel reasonably comfortable with a heli jump.
I was looking up the FARs and I don't understand a lot of them (different classified airspace, etc.) but I'll forward the info to him.

The guy is out of state. I definitely want to be safe and he wants to be at least somewhat legal, enough to not get too much in trouble. He's gonna be dropping me and some buddies off in the middle of nowhere, then we'll pack, repeat.

[davelepka 4]

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He's gonna be dropping me and some buddies off in the middle of nowhere, then we'll pack, repeat

You're going to have spotters on the ground, right? Spotters who know what to look for, and can find you or your gear in the case of a cutaway? Spotters with cell phones with the numbers for the nearest EMS, and the address of the 'middle of nowhere' so you can get help in case of an incident, right? Spotters with an aircraft radio so they can be in touch with the helo pilot, right?

You're going to set up a windsock or windblade on the field, right? Your going to overfly the field and make notes of outs and obstacles that could create turbulence for the given wind conditions, right?

It's not impossible, but it's also not that 'easy' to make off field jumps like this. People take for granted a lot of the 'services' provided at a DZ full of experienced jumpers, instructors and jump pilots, but they are there when you need them. If everything goes right, there's no problem. If you have a double mal and go in at 40 or 50 mph, your going to need first aid, and someone on the phone to the right people with the right info NOW. If you have to lie there for 20 min while your buddies land, and then find you and figure out who to call and where to send them, that could be your last 20 min.

Just plan ahead, and remember that you're not on a DZ, and everything is up to you.

[AlexDias 0]

I did a Helicopter jump (actually two in a row) in Switzerland a month ago ... I only had 47 jumps at that time and I did a two-way with a friend and it was AWESOME! you are going to love it!
The pilot was a professional pilot with training to drop skydivers (he is actually a skydiver himself) so he knew how it was done. We went up to 10'000 ft in less than 5 minutes and then experienced real freefall! the Heli was a Lama from Air Glacier.
Thing I can tell you:
1- Give EXTRA attention to your pilot chute during jump run and before exit. If your pilot chute get out prematurely and gets caught in the pales you will all end up dead so this was priority NUMBER 1.
2. It depends on the heli I guess but Don't JUMP out of it, just let yourself go. If you jump you're going to apply pressure on the step and the heli is not going to be stable anymore and you don't want those pales rotating in your face...
3. Regulations in Switzerland say that when you use a helicopter for dropping skydivers the exit door must be removed prior to take off. I don't know if it's the same everywhere but I recommend it. if you do so make sure you are well seated and fastened upon take off..

Apart from that.. It was the 2 best jumps i ever did! ENJOY , have fun and blue skies!

[chuckakers 370]

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So it looks like I got hooked up with someone with a heli that wants me to jump out of it. He's never had anyone jump out of it and I've never done it either. He's a little worried about stability. Is there anything specific I have to know? How I exit, etc.

He's got an md-500.

Also anyone have a reference where I can find FAA or USPA rules on this kinda stuff? The pilot's understanding was that if it is outside the city, you just have to get landowner's permission to land and you have to radio other aircraft around?
I looked up under uspa.org and couldn't find the info. Any other info is appreciated!!

Might want to have the pilot read up on the FAR's concerning requirements to drop jumpers. It's a little more involved than just getting "outside the city". He will need to know the requirements for the specific type of airspace he will be operating in.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[grimmie 177]

Call Randy Ottinger at USPA. He is the director of government relations.

I am a commercial helicopter pilot. If you have a guy worried about stability issues and doesn't know FAA rules, I wonder how much experience he has flying. A 500 will be very stable.

[rippedbx 0]

thanks everybody for the info!
trying to address all the above posts:

He's a commercial helicopter pilot and I don't know how much experience he has. He's not familiar with skydiving and maybe that's why he's not familiar with those FAA regs? Or maybe he is and I misunderstood? And he was concerned about stability. It sounded like he's never "dropped" anything from it.

I'm figuring I'll just hang with a buddy on opposite sides of the heli and drop at the same time.

I have a wind flag that I was going to put in the LZ and gonna walk it first. Gonna use my base rig and treat the jump like a base jump cuz I'll be landing at my buddy's place with a tight landing area (not tight for base standards).

And yeah I've thought about PC issues but appreciate the reminder. Predeployment and then birthday-wrap yourself in the canopy might ruin the day.

[davelepka 4]

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Gonna use my base rig and treat the jump like a BASE jump cuz I'll be landing at my buddy's place with a tight landing area (not tight for base standards).

Back to the FAA business, I'm not sure the BASE rig is going to cut, unless it's TSO'd and has a TSO'd, in-date reserve. Your buddies commercial license (actualyl his whole license) will be on the line if you get caught. It's technically the pilots responsibility to make sure everyone is jumping a legal, in-date rig.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Just gets better and better.

[fencebuster 7]

No experience dropping jumpers tells me he has no idea about the requirement for a NOTAM. 6 or 7 other facts in this thread make it clear that this is a bad idea and several levels.

You may want to talk to your local S & TA before you take this on. I have 2 helicopter jumps and they were nothing like the other 1068 jumps I have made. Plus if you are not landing at your regular DZ, you have all kinds of regs to comply with; any of which can get you or your pilot in dutch with the FAA.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[rippedbx 0]

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Gonna use my base rig and treat the jump like a BASE jump cuz I'll be landing at my buddy's place with a tight landing area (not tight for base standards).

Back to the FAA business, I'm not sure the BASE rig is going to cut, unless it's TSO'd and has a TSO'd, in-date reserve. Your buddies commercial license (actualyl his whole license) will be on the line if you get caught. It's technically the pilots responsibility to make sure everyone is jumping a legal, in-date rig.

I'm not terribly worried about the danger or legality of it. As far as safety goes, it does have potential to not go well, but its got potential to go awesome too! ;) I know its a serious situation but have done more dangerous jumps and a lot more illegal jumps than this. Not trying to sound over confident, but I'm ok with the jump.
But I do understand if the pilot isn't cool with it. I'll contact my dz and direct the pilot to the FAA regs and let him decide if its something he still wants to do and how legal he wants them jump to be. If its something he's wanting to do again, probably totally legal.

[grimmie 177]

Please tell me you're a troll.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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No experience dropping jumpers tells me he has no idea about the requirement for a NOTAM. 6 or 7 other facts in this thread make it clear that this is a bad idea and several levels.

You may want to talk to your local S & TA before you take this on. I have 2 helicopter jumps and they were nothing like the other 1068 jumps I have made. Plus if you are not landing at your regular DZ, you have all kinds of regs to comply with; any of which can get you or your pilot in dutch with the FAA.

Land owner permission and communicate with ATC. Assuming they are not in a populated area. You are not required to file a NOTAM. None of this is what I'm concerned about after reading this thread.

[diablopilot 2]

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I'm not terribly worried about the danger or legality of it. As far as safety goes, it does have potential to not go well, but its got potential to go awesome too! ;) I know its a serious situation but have done more dangerous jumps and a lot more illegal jumps than this. Not trying to sound over confident, but I'm ok with the jump.

Here's the list of instructions to be successful:

Step 1. Get a clue.

Step 2. Come back after you get step 1 down.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[pchapman 262]

To clue you in: Nowadays it is pretty common for people to jump off of things with BASE rigs -- towers, cliffs, paragliders, whatever, all over the world. But you might be surprised that the FAA is full of fuddy duddies who want to regulate things aerial, and aren't in it just for the fun of jumping off things like BASE jumpers are. Bummer, dude.

In the US, you basically need a dual parachute single harness TSO'd rig etc to jump off an aircraft.

The problem is also that the pilot is responsible for people jumping from his aircraft according to the FAA rules, so it's not just you who has to get away with it.

You could come up to Canada, we don't have that kind of federal rule (just that you wouldn't be using the BASE rig at a CSPA drop zone).

[ineed2fly 0]

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Here's the list of instructions to be successful:

Step 1. Get a clue.

Step 2. Come back after you get step 1 down.

Step 3: Post this up on www.basejumper.com next time

"As soon as you're born you start dying. So you might as well, have a good time."
-CAKE

I'm crazy not stupid. There is a difference.

[ineed2fly 0]

In all seriousness though, don't take base gear out of aircraft. There is absolutely no reason to. If you really want to, borrow a big rig if you don't own one, and free pack your base canopy into your sky rig (as long as you have a spandex BOC, id be worried about a hard pull with a 32" PC in a cordura BOC) pack it just like you would a base rig, but with more S folds, it works exactly the same and is legal. You'd totally fuck the pilot if you got caught, especially if he doesn't understand the difference in gear and thinks its all legal. Talk to some local experienced jumpers, if you're friends with base jumpers i guarantee someone you know has organized off DZ loads, heli, aeroplane, or balloon, whatever it all applies. I'm sure they can help you set up a load safely, and would gladly come along to fall out of it Be smart and safe, and for the pilots sake legal.

"As soon as you're born you start dying. So you might as well, have a good time."
-CAKE

I'm crazy not stupid. There is a difference.

[davelepka 4]

Make up your mind, hoss. Upthread your exact words were -

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I definitely want to be safe and he wants to be at least somewhat legal

Several posts later, with most of them pointing out areas of concern with your plan, you've changed your tune to-

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I'm not terribly worried about the danger or legality of it.

Which one is it?

Whatever happens, make sure you explain to this guy that he could lose his license if he let's you jump with non-certified gear (BASE gear is not certified for jumps out of aircraft, unless it's a BASER, and even then you need a tersh reserve to keep it legal). If this guy is commercially rated to fly a helo, he has a shit ton of time and money invested in that license, and I'm sure he doesn't want to risk it over you and your buddies having some fun.

Making a helo jump or an off-DZ jump isn't a big deal, for a reasonably informed and experienced skydiver, and at this point, that doesn't sound like you. People can get hurt, killed, sued, and licenses lost based on making mistakes when doing these types of things if you don't know what you're doing, and that is most certainly not awesome.

[chuckakers 370]

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I'm not terribly worried about the danger or legality of it.

Just what we need. Another %#*^@.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[theonlyski 3]

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I'm not terribly worried about the danger or legality of it.

A commercial pilot would be an idiot to risk his certificate(s) on letting someone jump against the FARs. That is an easy way to shoot yourself in the foot. Commercial pilot licenses aren't cheap, there's a pretty significant monetary and time commitment involved in getting them, throwing it away on something stupid is just dumb.

If it were me as the pilot, I'd ask around to find a rigger to make sure your rig is in compliance with the FAR's before you get on the heli. None of this "he said I'm good" stuff. (yes, I know, I AM a rigger, but most pilots aren't)

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[fastphil 0]

You should bring these endeavors to the internet only after you have pics or video to post...

[billvon 2,426]

>I know its a serious situation but have done more dangerous jumps and a lot
>more illegal jumps than this.

So have I. It's still a really dumb idea.

[Cutaway68 4]

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Here's the list of instructions to be successful:

Step 1. Get a clue.

Step 2. Come back after you get step 1 down.

Step 3. Let the pilot read this thread. If he is still willing, after reading other skydivers (who would also like to be on the load) saying how bad of an idea this is as it stands, then PM me the time, date and location.

Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!!
The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can."
Be fun, have safe.

[rippedbx 0]

K. I'm pretty impulsive and just wanted to jump. I knew it was illegal but was thinking the penalty for the pilot would have been similar to traffic ticket or fine. At first, I didn't realize that he could lose his license over something like this. I think its stupid, but that doesn't matter. It puts things in perspective for me. thanks for the people that were helpful.
And thanks for the people that PM'ed me. The info helped a lot. I got a hold of someone else thats jumped one and he's gonna help set it up and jump it with me. He was pretty stoked when I told him it was free, too





"Step 3: Post this up on http://www.basejumper.com next time"
I was going to but thought that more people here would point me in the right direction about the FAA rules. Understandably, I'm pretty sure I woulda had responses that were more welcoming from that forum. But getting info was more important.

"In all seriousness though, don't take base gear out of aircraft. There is absolutely no reason to. If you really want to, borrow a big rig if you don't own one, and free pack your base canopy into your sky rig (as long as you have a spandex BOC, id be worried about a hard pull with a 32" PC in a cordura BOC) pack it just like you would a base rig, but with more S folds, it works exactly the same and is legal. You'd totally fuck the pilot if you got caught, especially if he doesn't understand the difference in gear and thinks its all legal. Talk to some local experienced jumpers, if you're friends with BASE jumpers i guarantee someone you know has organized off DZ loads, heli, aeroplane, or balloon, whatever it all applies. I'm sure they can help you set up a load safely, and would gladly come along to fall out of it Be smart and safe, and for the pilots sake legal."

I understand the consequences of it and I'm gonna leave it up to the pilot. I'm 150lbs and my base canopy is a 266. I don't have any friends with a container that big, especially one that would fit me. And honestly I feel much more comfortable with my rig whether its logical to others or not. (I'm sure someone's gonna flame on this)
And I am gonna have someone that's jumped one before help set the jump up.