Deland Accident - Use this as an example

[Scottjk 0]

I'm lucky to be able to jump at many dropzone across the country and it truly amazes me how many people I ride with that don't wear seat belts and decide to not wear helmets for takeoff. Even though accidents don't occur frequently the one time it happens to you are you going to be one of those that positively or negatively impact safety. Not wearing a seat belt endangers EVERY person in the airplane, not just yourself. Not wearing a helmet endangers yourself and if you don't secure it it endangers everyone around you. Internal velocities of unsecured items during a crash can cause catastrophic injuries to anyone in the trajectory path.

Being a commercial airline pilot I do things religiously with the intention of preparing for the worst with expectations for the best. Just last week I did my ritual tug on the window handle and after 14 years and thousands of flight hours later it opened up for the first time. Would it have been catastrophic, no, but it sure could have caused a chain of events that we didn't need. My point is, plan for the worst and expect the best.

Choosing not to wear your seat belt and failure to secure your helmet, either on your head or through your chest strap, puts everyone in danger. If you see someone not wearing their seat belt or securing their helmets you need to speak up. It may not only be your life you are saving but everyone on the aircraft.

Best wishes to everyone involved in todays accident.

Scott

ps. This post isn't speculating on injuries and the cause there of, it is simply a reminder of accidents do happen and we need to be prepared.

[GiaKrembs 0]

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If you see someone not wearing their seat belt or securing their helmets you need to speak up

I have asked people in the past / or commented on the possible dangers of not wearing a helmet or securing it only to be told to shut up!!!

I hope that this thread can reinforce the importance of this, and value added not only to the jumper but to others on the plane.

Thanks! g

Raddest ho this side of Jersey #1 - rest in peace brother
Beth lost her cherry and I missed it
.... you want access to it, but you don't want to break it.

[AMax 0]

would be more appropriate to post this in Safety and training

[shall555 0]

That's why I love my new home DZ. Safety-conscious folks that always use good practice.

They do things *lots* smarter than we used to, in the day!

shall

[base698 1]

I'm a nazi about this mainly due to jumping in Perris for as long as I did (considering their crash from 1992). Last time I did a jump I busted someone on this that had a student. They didn't buckle their helmet :(

[lisamariewillbe 1]

I wear my helmet as Im approaching the plane. I figure with the size of the aircraft, trying to climb in while others are also that at the very least I save myself from a kick to the back of the head.


I hope all in the plane will be okay and posting on here, how they are glad they wore their helmet and seatbelt.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Scottjk 0]

No it wouldn't be more appropriate. How many hits do you think this post will get here as opposed to where it was.

S

[billvon 2,400]

>How many hits do you think this post will get here as opposed to
>where it was.

Making a thread popular is not a factor in where it is placed. Its content is. Each forum has a description of which sorts of threads should be posted there.

[PhreeZone 15]

In the case of camera flyers we are usually better to have the helmet buckled in either on the chest strap or through the seatbelt also. The helmet should always be secured, but in some cases its better not to have the helmet on your head.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[flyangel2 2]

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I'm a nazi about this mainly due to jumping in Perris for as long as I did (considering their crash from 1992). Last time I did a jump I busted someone on this that had a student. They didn't buckle their helmet :(

I'm a nazi about it too. Maybe we should get badges we can flash when people tell us to shut up

There are a number of times I see people without seatbelts on. In fact while visiting a DZ on my May trip traveling in Calif., I was the only one worried that I couldn't get my seatbelt out from under the bench to put it on. I decided that once I touched the ground I wouldn't be jumping there any time soon until they changed that policy.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[MarkM 0]

One thing I would always worry about if people didn't wear their seat belts is cargo shift during an emergency.

Pilot banks or climbs suddenly, people slide around, throws off the CG of the plane...

[mjosparky 3]

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I have asked people in the past / or commented on the possible dangers of not wearing a helmet or securing it only to be told to shut up!!!

Tell them to kiss you ass and get off the plane. It's your life they are screwing with.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Andy9o8 0]

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I have asked people in the past / or commented on the possible dangers of not wearing a helmet or securing it only to be told to shut up!!!

Tell them to kiss you ass and get off the plane. It's your life they are screwing with.

Sparky

In a perfect world he could do this. Unfortunately, in reality, it is often very hard for relative newbies (and especially novices) to speak up about safety issues without risk of getting ostracized. Sucks, doesn't it?

[djd 0]

if i had been 3 mins earlier (manifest girl was on the phone) i would have been on that lift. scarey thing was i was just having dz breif theres manifest so on when the plane took off in front off us, wow she sure got off the ground fast, dont beleive the local news the wing never hit the ground on take off and it wasnt smoking + she got to about 300 - 400 ish ft too.
as far as im aware there was only about 15 - 20 people there and dont know how many of them saw what happened.
had an email from a friend in the uk saying pilot is now stable havnt confirmed this but hope its true. rest was minor in comparison 2 broken legs and an ankle, that was from a policeman talking to two off the wives, horses mouth maybe but cant be sure off the accuracy on anything.
must congratulate the staff at deland they all moved very swiftly and profesionally.
was my first trip up to deland and was going to be my first jump there.
great looking dropzone will def be back but maybe in a week or too after copious amounts of beer and a good chat with him whowatches over me.....
blue ones and buckle up.....

dave

(glad to be on the ground for once) never thought id ever say that!!!!!

[SpecialKaye 0]

[In a perfect world he could do this. Unfortunately, in reality, it is often very hard for relative newbies (and especially novices) to speak up about safety issues without risk of getting ostracized. Sucks, doesn't it?

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Doesn't matter if you're a newbie or not, with some people, when you speak up, you are ostracized. This is the worst sport I have ever seen for the childish handlings of serious issues...I don't care if I piss someone off when it comes to my safety.

What kind of future can you expect if you have 60-80 jumps and none is willing to jump with you?

[flyangel2 2]

I think there are people that are safety minded enough that would be willing to jump with some one that is willing to speak up when it comes to being safe.

Sorry, doesn't matter to me if some one won't jump with me because I'm concerned about my safety.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[mjosparky 3]

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What kind of future can you expect if you have 60-80 jumps and none is willing to jump with you?

What kind of future can you expect if you are in a wheel chair or dead? Stand up for yourself, if everyone does then maybe safety will be cool.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Guest 1010]

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What kind of future can you expect if you have 60-80 jumps and none is willing to jump with you?

jeez, with 60-80 jumps ... and you speak up when you see something potentially unsafe ... you and your pals may live to see 100 jumps. Safe skydivers are generally welcome at dropzones around the world. And if I was actually ostracized I'd wonder what else was wrong safety-wise at that dz, certainly wouldn't want them repacking my reserve, probably wouldn't want to be in their aircraft. Vote with your feet/dollars.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[CaptSplat 0]

i've been jumping for four years (68 jumps) and I almost have my B Liscence. In my home state I have jumped at most of the DZ's in it and have seen the way such things are done at each one. I am sorry to say that they are not all consistent with the OP regs.
Put simply, not all enforce the single point restraint rule though they are good regarding helmets and everyone keeping an eye on theirs and everyone elses hackeys, handles etc. I pointed out a BOC hackey hanging a little out to a 'sky god' and got a smile and a thumbs up after he fixed it. No ego there.
A culture of safety prevails in my state DZ's I am glad to say. Which makes the occasional SPR tardiness hard to understand. And yes, it is hard as a novice skydiver to speak up about it when you see it. But getting a 90 kilo skydiver in the face after the plane fraps in on landing doesn't sound like fun either.

[goose491 0]

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But getting a 90 kilo skydiver in the face after the plane fraps in on landing doesn't sound like fun either.

That's just it isn't it? People that don't buckle up are not thinking of their fellow jumpers. Really, if I tell you to put on your seatbelt because you haven't yet and we are on takeoff roll, trust that's it's more for me then for you. lol.

Our DZ is very good about the seatbelts and secured items. (I once was sitting by the door of the otter with my helmet in my lap and the TM at the front of the plane yelled back to remind me it should be secured. )

I once told a "sky-god", new to skydive burnaby, who was sitting across from me to buckle up on take off roll. "Don't worry." he said, and brushed off with his hand. "Oh, I'm not worried about you my friend. I'm worried about my poor buddy Dimitry who's sitting next to you. Put your belt on so that you don't kill him on your way through if we crash please.".... he didn't even respond or flintch. I was flat out pissed!!

What can you do at that point?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[SpecialKaye 0]

What kind of future can you expect if you have 60-80 jumps and none is willing to jump with you?

[Andy9o8 0]

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I once told a "sky-god", new to skydive burnaby, who was sitting across from me to buckle up on take off roll...... he didn't even respond or flintch. I was flat out pissed!!

As well you should have been.

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What can you do at that point?

And that's my point. Like you're really gonna yell up to the pilot to abort the takeoff, right? (Maybe another skygod could get away with that, but not the mere mortals). I suppose you could blow the guy in to the S&TA, but again - unless you're a skygod yourself or are very friendly with a lot of the DZ skygods - it's really not that easy a decision.

[phoenixlpr 0]

My comment was about ostracism, not about safety.

[pilotdave 0]

That's why my motto is "always sacrifice safety for popularity." Ok no it's not. But I do always say "I'm not really into safety" which drives people nuts at work... in a product safety department.

Not to change the subject, but does anyone that was there know what positions in the plane the most seriously and least seriously injured people were sitting in?

Dave