Pop and Hop

[format 0]

For some reason plane is going down..
I'm not sure how LOW we are but I'm SURE I wanna jump.
If there's no time to open reserve and tuck reserve PC/strap anywhere in the plane
- I'd just pop it and jump instead of jump and then pull.

How stupid is that?

What goes around, comes later.

[mjosparky 3]

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For some reason plane is going down..
I'm not sure how LOW we are but I'm SURE I wanna jump.
If there's no time to open reserve and tuck reserve PC/strap anywhere in the plane
- I'd just pop it and jump instead of jump and then pull.

How stupid is that?

And where did this bit of wisdom come from?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Hellis 0]

So you want to make a direct-bag type of jump from an ariplane?
An airplane thats going down.
Ever heard of mid air rigging?
And unless you are alone in the plane, I doubt anyone will let you take that time.

And your second question.
Pull the pin in a open door and then jump?
What happens if the pc and canopy goes above the stabilazor?

What did you learn at your FJC? And why do you think this does not apply to you?
Serious question.

[likestojump 3]

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For some reason plane is going down..
I'm not sure how LOW we are but I'm SURE I wanna jump.
If there's no time to open reserve and tuck reserve PC/strap anywhere in the plane
- I'd just pop it and jump instead of jump and then pull.

How stupid is that?

You really need to understand the mechanics of how the reserve deployment works and what exactly pulling the reserve handle achieves.

In short, your theory of deploying your reserve it in the plane and then jumping out is less likely to work (let alone work properly) then exiting and pulling silver as soon as you clear the airplane.

Pull silver = pull the pin that holds the container closed, which in turn lets the spring loaded reserve PC launch away from the container.

In stiatuion A (deploy in the plane), you end up with an open reserve container, and your reserve PC either on the floor or in some jumpers face. You may also possibly end up with the freebag that fell out on the floor, but that's highly unlikely in a crouched position with a closed main container. Once you exit, you will very likely either drag your reserve PC and resulting in either a ghetto d-bag like deployment with your reserve very likely going over the horizontal stabilizer OR trailing your reserve PC out the door and getting a regular reserve deployment just like you would have if you pulled silver 1 sec out, but with much more unnecessary risk.

If you were in front of me and popped the reserve in the plane on purpose, I would have a very serious conversation with you afterwards provided we both survive. And I am sure others, especially the pilot would have very strong words as well.

[format 0]

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..provided we both survive. And I am sure others, especially the pilot would have very strong words as well.

Survival is keyword. Get serious, what's wrong with it,
am I going to bring down a crashing plane?
Oh, am I going to disrupt your crouching position?

Would you jump at 300ft and get stable before pull?

[rastapara 0]

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How stupid is that?

On a scale from one to ten I think its a solid eleven, might even be a twelve...

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I'm not sure how LOW we are but I'm SURE I wanna jump.

If you dont know at what altitude you are how are you sure you want to jump?

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Would you jump at 300ft and get stable before pull?

Of course depending on the situation, it is very unlikely IMO I would exit at 300ft... (but of course if I was in a burning plane without wings that was heading for a nuclear reactor or something I might reconsider, if I even would have any time for that...)

anyway I call troll

edit to correct spelling

Parachute gear garage sale at :http://www.usedparachutes.eu

[Arvoitus 1]

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Would you jump at 300ft and get stable before pull?

I don't need to use time to get stable, since I can exit the aircraft in a way that I'm immediately ready to pull as soon as I clear the air craft. Also I wouldn't jump out of an aircraft at 300 ft with a skyrig unless the other option would be 100% certain death.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[format 0]

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I wouldn't jump out of an aircraft at 300 ft with a skyrig unless the other option would be 100% certain death.

Now we're talking,
would you hop&pop or pop&hop

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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I wouldn't jump out of an aircraft at 300 ft with a skyrig unless the other option would be 100% certain death.

Now we're talking,
would you hop&pop or pop&hop

Hop & pop.

Poppong first adds several layers of risk with very little reward.

And in a situation like that, most people will revert to their training and experience. They won't think, they'll just react.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[mircan 0]

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Also I wouldn't jump out of an aircraft at 300 ft with a skyrig unless the other option would be 100% certain death.

I`m guessing Format is asking because of the recent fatalities where friends of ours died in plane crash...
The plane crashed almost after take-off and was not higher than 300ft. It crashed almost vertically. Nobody got out. The whole thing happened in 20-30 seconds.

So what to do if you are at 300ft with engine on fire (C-182), cabin filled with smoke/flames, diving towards the ground?

Probably nothing. No time.

dudeist skydiver #42

[likestojump 3]

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..provided we both survive. And I am sure others, especially the pilot would have very strong words as well.

Survival is keyword. Get serious, what's wrong with it,
am I going to bring down a crashing plane?
Oh, am I going to disrupt your crouching position?

Would you jump at 300ft and get stable before pull?

Now you are just arguing for the sake of arguement.
If you exit and pull right out the door you get a much cleaner airflow for the PC. In fact, time it well and you get to deploy into the relative wind which is much more horizontal thus (at least in theory) resulting in much less altitude used up for deployment.

If i was at 300ft and was foced to jump AND HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO SETUP i would pop the reserve, pull the neatly folded canopy out of the freebag, coil the lines up in my dominant hand and exit on my back with the canopy "brick" close to my body to protect it from the wind. I would take the split moment it takes to clear the tail and put the canopy into the airflow.

This WILL work just fine from 300ft (provided it's executed correctly) and is much cleaner than pulling silver in the plane and chopping out the door. Of course it also takes a good amount of practice to do right. Luckily i have a comfortable amount of various unpacked BASE jumps and trashbag jumps from various aircraft.

[Hellis 0]

From 300 feet you would have about 4-4.5 seconds till you hit the ground.
A reserve *should* open in 2 seconds.

And as you have the airspeed from the planes forward motion it should work.

But doing what you are suggesting can lead to a big mess.
First of all it takes time! Do you have time to mess around?
You could end up wraping the bridle around your foot, or an arm or a friend.

Next time someone needs a repack, try to do this 'stunt' of yours in the airplane while it's on the ground and time it.
To make it more realistic, have the airplane full of skydivers with gear, all wanting to get out while you are doing your "rigging".
My guess is that you will be last out or pushed out before your done with your rigging.

Remember to put a matress under the airplane door, someone could get hurt.

[format 0]

yes :(

I wondered if different mindset would've brought less tragic outcome.
Anybody's opinion is welcome.

Thank you all.

[format 0]

...and I remember one reserve opening that took less than 210 ft in almost a second, it was RSL induced. I think it was PD 170.edit: from almost no vertical speed
So, the question is only logical.

What goes around, comes later.

[likestojump 3]

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...and I remember one reserve opening that took less than 210 ft in almost a second, it was RSL induced. I think it was PD 170.edit: from almost no vertical speed
So, the question is only logical.

And I remember one guy landing a wingsuit into a pile of cardboard boxes. But that is hardly the norm and trying to replicate that with no training AND under duress is probably going to result in a radically different outcome.

You know, there are always outliers in statistics, and using them as a baseline is never a good idea.

[airtwardo 6]

So what to do if you are at 300ft with engine on fire (C-182), cabin filled with smoke/flames, diving towards the ground?

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In the 'olden' daze we'd sit around the actual bonfire and discuss possible 'what-if' scenarios...that one came up several times ~ my answer was to put an elbow through the window and fire my reserve through the hole.

One of 5 things would happen, none of 'em real good, but you're 3 seconds from dead anyway...at lease ya would give everybody else in the plane something interesting to watch!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mircan 0]

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I wondered if different mindset would've brought less tragic outcome...

No.
Once that plane started falling it was over in 4-5 seconds.
You would have window of one or two seconds to realize what`s happening, do your rigging and bail out. And that is a stretch.
In reality, you would spend first second realizing something is wrong, next second wondering what`s up, and third second looking at the pilot and by that time... you`re done.

dudeist skydiver #42

[Andy9o8 0]

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I wouldn't jump out of an aircraft at 300 ft with a skyrig unless the other option would be 100% certain death.

Now we're talking,
would you hop&pop or pop&hop

http://delightfulchildrensbooks.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/hop-on-pop.jpg

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Jim,

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elbow through the window and fire my reserve through the hole.

Been done, sorta.

Back in the 60's a C-180/182 had the window behind the pilot's door out for some reason. A guy wearing a Security piggyback rig, sitting with his back to this now open hole, somehow got his ripcord pulled, launched the reserve pilot chute out the window. He followed quickly thereafter.



No real injuries to him, just a fair amount of bruising.

JerryBaumchen

[mircan 0]

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So what to do if you are at 300ft with engine on fire (C-182), cabin filled with smoke/flames, diving towards the ground?

Quote

In the 'olden' daze we'd sit around the actual bonfire and discuss possible 'what-if' scenarios...that one came up several times ~ my answer was to put an elbow through the window and fire my reserve through the hole.

One of 5 things would happen, none of 'em real good, but you're 3 seconds from dead anyway...at lease ya would give everybody else in the plane something interesting to watch!

But even for that... You should think (and act) lightning fast...
On the funny side (sorry, I need some humor these days), if one like you have 3000 years of experience, anything is possible and doable
And I agree 100%, other guys would be "WTF?" for sure. Just to keep their minds from their doom...

dudeist skydiver #42

[mjosparky 3]

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So what to do if you are at 300ft with engine on fire (C-182), cabin filled with smoke/flames, diving towards the ground?

Quote

In the 'olden' daze we'd sit around the actual bonfire and discuss possible 'what-if' scenarios...that one came up several times ~ my answer was to put an elbow through the window and fire my reserve through the hole.

One of 5 things would happen, none of 'em real good, but you're 3 seconds from dead anyway...at lease ya would give everybody else in the plane something interesting to watch!

Take one of your shoes and put it in your pants.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[oldwomanc6 38]

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Quote

So what to do if you are at 300ft with engine on fire (C-182), cabin filled with smoke/flames, diving towards the ground?

Quote

In the 'olden' daze we'd sit around the actual bonfire and discuss possible 'what-if' scenarios...that one came up several times ~ my answer was to put an elbow through the window and fire my reserve through the hole.

One of 5 things would happen, none of 'em real good, but you're 3 seconds from dead anyway...at lease ya would give everybody else in the plane something interesting to watch!

Take one of your shoes and put it in your pants.

Sparky

In front or back?

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[mjosparky 3]

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[DougH 270]

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In the 'olden' daze we'd sit around the actual bonfire and discuss possible 'what-if' scenarios...that one came up several times ~ my answer was to put an elbow through the window and fire my reserve through the hole.

One of 5 things would happen, none of 'em real good, but you're 3 seconds from dead anyway...at lease ya would give everybody else in the plane something interesting to watch!

I have had this morbid what-if scenario pop into my head at times when sitting in the back of a 182 and looking at the baggage compartment door.

Spinning in, on fire, and stuck in the tail. I could always kick open the baggage door and try to throw a PC out.

It would be more of a pop and yank.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Arvoitus 1]

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I wouldn't jump out of an aircraft at 300 ft with a skyrig unless the other option would be 100% certain death.

Now we're talking,
would you hop&pop or pop&hop

H&P simply because if I had to exit at that altitude it would probably be a fairly stressful situation so it would be better to do something that I've done before and I'm familiar with rather then something I've never tried before and have no idea if it'll even work.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.