Non USPA rated TI taking out students

[Jumpdude 0]

raff

If ever random ramp checks for USPA currency, FAA physicals, USPA ratings, or surprise urine tests were to be performed, a lot of operations would come to a screeching halt.

Like I said earlier, USPA is a voluntary membership club, so based on that, fortunately, they do not have the authority to do ramp checks, so we don't have to worry about that happening!

[airtwardo 6]

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There are hundreds of unrated folks doing tandems.

Hundreds?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[stayhigh 2]

What about those who has USPA rating but expired UPT rating???????

There is hundreds of them people.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[skygypsie 2]

Sorry, no vindictive nor personal agenda... professional concern, hellya..I'll admit it !
Just curious as to feedback / politics & as to the whys/ why nots...& future decision regarding whether to refer students there, DZ-S&TA liabilities, PIC, etc., if there was a ramp check or; God forbid, an incident !
What's the point having &/or following any regs, training, licenses, ratings, gear criteria, waivers, insurance, manifest, load organizers, safety-safety meetings, log books, riggers, packers, forums, updates, weather reports, holds, wind limits.....just a 'freefall for all', because they can ???
Where do you suppose skydiving [tandems, anyway] would be, if this was a condoned ongoing happenstance at dzs throughout ?
Maybe some of these smaller 'off the grid' dzs are exempt & adhere to the good ol boy standards of turn the procedural cheek, until that God forbid incident.
However, since the biz has, & is a mainstay of our lifestyle & income, I'd just as soon know no safety stone is left unturned...that includes jumping through the rating reqs hoops if need be, regardless whether some feel it is just a card to pay a fee for & hold.
Otherwise, go club... but guaranteed the tandem influx that keeps these same small USPA dzs afloat, will dwindle !
Btw: going TI rate/ jump @ $50..same as rating fee.
If you can't pass the course, really...take a student ?

[skygypsie 2]

Wow, after 7 years as a Staffer in this biz, never realized how naïve I still really am, about it all...

[Arvoitus 1]

So basically, are you telling me that as a Strong rated TI I'm not a safe TI and all the students I take with me are in dire danger, because I don't have a plastic card that says my name next to USPA logo?

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[skygypsie 2]

Arvoitus

So basically, are you telling me that as a Strong rated TI I'm not a safe TI and all the students I take with me are in dire danger, because I don't have a plastic card that says my name next to USPA logo?

Of course not..my husband is both TI rated Strong & UPT.
Of course his membership with USPA doesn't give him his abilities nor experience.
I'm referring to those who are neither manufacturer qualified, nor USPA rated.
I'm only voicing my opinion as to why a USPA member Staffed at a USPA DZ, makes a decision to procedurally jeopardize the operations, or other Staffer's ratings, or would chose not to qualify, wait for approved issuance, renew...that's all !
Evidently, some dzs feel advertising as a USPA drop zone or skydiving center has its perks drawing students in...check out most of their websites, advertising this.
So what's the point, if complying with USPA instructor ratings / regs is meaningless, but only useful when it comes to soliciting their dzs & students ?
Scenario:
Remember the day of that 1st jump. It was at a USPA dz.
You had no clue what you were about to do, but put your entire trust into that charismatic instructor, you were about to turn your LIFE over to.
Rather then hearing the instructor you are training & rigging up with, is a licensed & rated instructor, you are told: "he/she has practiced jumping the parachute gear & should be ok with the manufacturer that made the gear, but because we are members of an organization we must comply with their rules & regulations. Even though he/she has not received their rating from that organization yet, to do this jump with you, he/she should be all good to go...still want to go with this 'instructor', or would you rather go with someone here who's complied & qualified ?"
What would most decide to do & why ?... just saying

[topdocker 0]

skygypsie

***So basically, are you telling me that as a Strong rated TI I'm not a safe TI and all the students I take with me are in dire danger, because I don't have a plastic card that says my name next to USPA logo?

Of course not..my husband is both TI rated Strong & UPT.
Of course his membership with USPA doesn't give him his abilities nor experience.
I'm referring to those who are neither manufacturer qualified, nor USPA rated.
I'm only voicing my opinion as to why a USPA member Staffed at a USPA DZ, makes a decision to procedurally jeopardize the operations, or other Staffer's ratings, or would chose not to qualify, wait for approved issuance, renew...that's all !
Evidently, some dzs feel advertising as a USPA drop zone or skydiving center has its perks drawing students in...check out most of their websites, advertising this.
So what's the point, if complying with USPA instructor ratings / regs is meaningless, but only useful when it comes to soliciting their dzs & students ?
Scenario:
Remember the day of that 1st jump. It was at a USPA dz.
You had no clue what you were about to do, but put your entire trust into that charismatic instructor, you were about to turn your LIFE over to.
Rather then hearing the instructor you are training & rigging up with, is a licensed & rated instructor, you are told: "he/she has practiced jumping the parachute gear & should be ok with the manufacturer that made the gear, but because we are members of an organization we must comply with their rules & regulations. Even though he/she has not received their rating from that organization yet, to do this jump with you, he/she should be all good to go...still want to go with this 'instructor', or would you rather go with someone here who's complied & qualified ?"
What would most decide to do & why ?... just saying

I also remember the days when people didn't discuss their dirty laundry online, but took things to the Regional Director or USPA. Of course, back then we didn't have "Group membership" to worry about or tandem ratings....

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[Ron 7]

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I'm referring to those who are neither manufacturer qualified, nor USPA rated.
I'm only voicing my opinion as to why a USPA member Staffed at a USPA DZ, makes a decision to procedurally jeopardize the operations, or other Staffer's ratings, or would chose not to qualify, wait for approved issuance,

I think you GROSSLY misunderstand the USPA.

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Remember the day of that 1st jump. It was at a USPA dz.

It was not.... And I survived just fine. Some might even say I did OK in the long run.

It *seems* you have a personal vendetta against someone.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[chuckakers 370]

Ron

******TI rated means the manufacturer trained you and certed you as qualified.

USPA rated means you sent in your money every year for the plastic card.

Just my opinion.

USPA

c. Tandem training jumps [E]

(1) Any USPA member conducting a tandem jump must hold a current USPA Tandem Instructor rating and a manufacturer’s type rating.

B. Compliance with Federal regulations [NW]

1. No skydive may be made in violation of Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations.


105.45 Use of tandem parachute systems.

(a) No person may conduct a parachute operation using a tandem parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a tandem parachute system, unless—

(1) One of the parachutists using the tandem parachute system is the parachutist in command, and meets the following requirements:

(i) Has a minimum of 3 years of experience in parachuting, and must provide documentation that the parachutist—

(ii) Has completed a minimum of 500 freefall parachute jumps using a ram-air parachute, and

(iii) Holds a master parachute license issued by an organization recognized by the FAA, and

(iv) Has successfully completed a tandem instructor course given by the manufacturer of the tandem parachute system used in the parachute operation or a course acceptable to the Administrator.

Sparky

And having read the FAR, there is nothing preventing a person who had passed the rating to stop being a USPA member and still do tandems.


Sparky - the reg says the TI must hold a Master license by an FAA recognized organization. USPA licenses are only valid as a current USPA member. No membership, no license.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[diablopilot 2]

stayhigh

What about those who has USPA rating but expired UPT rating???????

There is hundreds of them people.

There is no USPA or FAA requirement to keep a manufacturer's rating current if the USPA rating is current.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Ron 7]

diablopilot

***What about those who has USPA rating but expired UPT rating???????

There is hundreds of them people.

There is no USPA or FAA requirement to keep a manufacturer's rating current if the USPA rating is current.

And there is no FAA rule that requires the USPA tandem cert is current.... Or even ever held.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

Quote

Sparky - the reg says the TI must hold a Master license by an FAA recognized organization. USPA licenses are only valid as a current USPA member. No membership, no license.

And to throw another wrench into the works.... I believe that the USPA no longer calls the 'D' as 'master'. The SIM makes no mention of 'Master' and even in the SIM glossary it makes no mention of 'master' just saying it is 'the highest of the four levels'.

My license says 'Master', but I have seen other people who's 'D' said 'Expert'....

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334