Third Class Medical in the News Again,...

[ChrisD 0]

Clickey: III

If you don't want to click, the gist:
“For many recreational pilots, the FAA’s third class medical certification process is nothing more than a bureaucratic hoop to jump through,” said Graves. “It discourages new pilots and does not truly improve safety. As a pilot, I have gone through this process several times. However, like all pilots, I am responsible for determining whether I am medically fit to fly during the time between my mandated medical certifications. Expanding the current exemption makes sense and will promote greater recreational aviation activity across the U.S. without an impact on safety.”

C

Kind of like tells it the way it is about FAA medicals....

I wonder if any of the insurance companies that underwrite DZ's have caught on as to what a big joke the Class 3 is really like?

I'm sure that last one is going to go over big with anyone who likes things the way they are now????

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[stratostar 5]

Quote

I wonder if any of the insurance companies that underwrite DZ's have caught on as to what a big joke the Class 3 is really like?

The joke of it has nothing to do with insurance co's underwriting dz's.... my dz policy don't say jack shit about TI's having medicals, however I'm still reading it over, so it might in there some where, but I doubt it. Where this is FORCED on us, is the USPA, via MFG's.

The whole debate with in the community has lead to USPA BOD stating the policy of the USPA is in place to keep out those with DUI's....

Yet they freely wave those rules if you have the right connected people in place who feel sorry for you, about that life time career of being a drunk and losing your Ohio State Drivers License for LIFE... still good to go!

Many of us have been trying to get the rule overturned and open to "equivalent" standards, if a medical is going to be demanded.... seeing how the FAA resides in the house of the USDOT and is a branch of the DOT>... one would think an approved USDOT medical card would suffice.... NOPE!

They say it won't keep out the DUI's like the FAA medical will.... Only most times you have to have a valid license to get a DOT medical card.

USPA also says, well we're taking people up in a commercial way, so we should be tested the same as commercial pilots... WTF even the FAA don't require a class 3 for LS CFI's....

Don't hold your breath those with in the USPA will be making a change anytime soon on this issue.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[CSpenceFLY 1]

To be honest, because of the commercial aspect of the sport, I'm surprised that a TI isn't required to have a Class II

[diablopilot 2]

CSpenceFLY

To be honest, because of the commercial aspect of the sport, I'm surprised that a TI isn't required to have a Class II

^This.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[TheCaptain 2]

I have been to a few different doctors for the flight physical. One(the cheaper one is more or less a joke) the other was quite thorough. That being said there are things that do not make them a joke too. If you take anti-depressants it is my understanding you will never be able to pass, or DUII and I have found out if you take blood pressure meds you can pass but there are quite a few more hoops to jump through. I am sure there are other meds that may put a person through more hoops or exclude them too

Kirk
He's dead Jim

[normiss 622]

For truly honest people, yes.

Do you really think every person that goes for an FAA Class III tells the doc everything????
I don't have quite that much faith in humans.

[ChrisD 0]

CSpenceFLY

To be honest, because of the commercial aspect of the sport, I'm surprised that a TI isn't required to have a Class II

One of the DZ's up here in New England, their agent is indicating that there is going to be mandatory drug testing the second the dz says they are no longer "independent contractors." Or LLC corporations, or sole proprietorships.

More crap to think about. We have all said it many times before about the self reporting aspect of the Class III, the anti depressant thing is there because of the sometimes severe effects only appearing at altitude. Everyone knows that you just don't mention that to the evaluating MD.

The real enforcement comes when something happens.

I think normiss is spot on about the honesty thing, but I also think the insurance companies are aware of this and they are lobbying as well....???

C

In a sense I think the popularity of tandems has brought about some changes and some more changes for the future.

Quite frankly I think spence has a point, we all know way too many TI's that roll out of bed at 10 am and can barley walk,...I'm sick of seeing this as well....

A couple more Gerado incidents and another falling out of the harness and this issue is going to be out of our hands. (USPA) The public has the ability to pass law. And frequently the Law that is passed is draconian and very restrictive. We have done and continue to portray to the public a cavalier attitude towards drinking and skydiving, HELL our National motto is BEER! Regulations are not the issue, the issue is that the insurance companies are dictating policy and the concession is going to be random drug testing. If I can't insure my aircraft then you don't fly. It hasn't been about regulations for the last 20 years.

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[Ron 7]

CSpenceFLY

To be honest, because of the commercial aspect of the sport, I'm surprised that a TI isn't required to have a Class II

Not required by the FAA for skydiving.
Not required by the FAA for commercial ballon operations
Not required by the FAA for commercial glider operations
Not required by the FAA for commercial LSA instruction.

The FAA has established the standards LONG ago. It is only required because the USPA bowed down to the manufacturers. The USPA claim of wanting to keep out those with a DUI is total crap.... Based on the fact they have waived it and if they really wanted to prevent TI' with a DUI, they cold just make that a rule.

The class three medical is a joke and a waste of time. Even the FAA admits that for skydiving, balloons, gliders, and LSA.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[normiss 622]

Drug testing for hire or pre-screen is not unusual.
I don't have a problem with a DZ requiring it.

[ChrisD 0]

normiss

Drug testing for hire or pre-screen is not unusual.
I don't have a problem with a DZ requiring it.

See this is the problem that many don't understand. Your average TI is not an employee. The aircraft are leased or they also are not an employee.

So the insurance companies, how do they protect against fraud or the DUI TI? Their not stupid and they exert enormous leverage and this leverage increases every year.

On the other hand if a DZ requires mandatory drug testing, that makes anyone subject to that rule an employee!

Clearly the few that have DUI's have shown the financiers that we (we are the USPA) can not self police.

C

The Tandem industry has changed stuff. It's a business now, it's no longer a bunch of kids forming a club and having fun. You all wanted to turn skydiving into a business so that you can make a C note by strapping on a camera, or getting your rating to make some scratch. But you all still want the anonymity and freedom to come and go or act as you please.

Reminds me of standing at the exit of the feed lot, all of those cows on the ramp, contentedly moo'en totally oblivious to the fate which lies just around the corner.

Once the insurance companies get their way with the demise of the third class they will have no choice but to do something to protect their ability to deny claims after an incident.

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[normiss 622]

I don't agree that requiring a drug test is the qualifier to being classified an employee.
Requiring me to be a certain place, at a certain time, and doing some work precisely as instructed by the DZ?
Now that I think .... umm .... yeah.


A drug screen prior to allowing a sub to work for you is not a game changer and is quite typical. Expected even.

[DiverMike 5]

Quote

Do you really think every person that goes for an FAA Class III tells the doc everything????

I regret to this day that I reported a sleep test that indicated I showed signs of sleep apnea. Wore the stupid CPAP. Had the UPPP (Uvulopalatopharyngoplasty) surgery. Still couldn't get a clean test. Lost my Private Ticket because I couldn't jump through all the hoops to maintain a stinking 3rd class med. No big deal - I was getting tired of the $150.00 hops to buy a hamburger, so I started skydiving.

I am not sure what, if anything, my sky diving career will be, but I won't be a TI because USPA thinks I may fall asleep under the canopy.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[normiss 622]

I know pilots in this position.

The most often one I've seen are vision issues, more so as we age.
Memorize the eye chart, go to a good eye doctor is what I was told.
Silly me. I took the honest approach.
I now have $16,000 eyes.
Bring on the eye exam.

[ryoder 1,400]

normiss

I know pilots in this position.

The most often one I've seen are vision issues, more so as we age.
Memorize the eye chart, go to a good eye doctor is what I was told.
Silly me. I took the honest approach.
I now have $16,000 eyes.
Bring on the eye exam.

So how many tandems will it take to break even?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[normiss 622]

I've never "needed" the money from hauling tandem pax, but it sure does come in handy!

Apparently, someone doesn't appreciate my downwinders. hmpf.

[indyz 1]

DiverMike

I regret to this day that I reported a sleep test that indicated I showed signs of sleep apnea.

One of the unexpected side effects of holding a 3rd class medical for the last 6 years is that I actually take less care of my health. That persistent mild sinus discomfort? If I get it checked out and need surgery, there goes my medical. Feel tired a lot? Better not go to the doctor, if he tells me I have a sleep disorder I'm done. Feel a little blue sometimes? Can't talk to a professional, might end up being diagnosed with depression. Give blood? They might find something that would disqualify me. Annual check-up with my physician? Hope I don't have high blood pressure or high cholesterol or...

[Ron 7]

Yep, I have to jump through a bunch of stupid hoops because I had a kidney stone once and made the mistake to report it.

I have mentioned this before, the FAA made me go get a cystoscopy. The FAA doc said it was an un needed procedure, the urologist said it was not needed.... In fact, not one Doctor I have EVER talked to said it was needed. But the FAA demanded it, so I had to go get a camera shoved up something that I normally only pee out of.

I had a great doctor that had me on a drug for an illness I have. The results were great and I never had an issue. Of course the FAA does not approve that medication, so now I am on something else that does not do as good of a job and rips up my stomach. You will rarely ever see me drink a beer anymore since it and my new FAA approved medication does not sit well.... Same with spicy food.

I'll be honest, I am LESS likely to run to the doctor since I have to report it next year.... I yeah, I have to go every year since I was honest on my exam paperwork.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[stratostar 5]

Quote

FAA will move forward with sleep apnea policy
Federal Air Surgeon says agency will not go through rulemaking process

December 12, 2013

By Elizabeth A Tennyson

During a hastily organized webinar held Dec. 12, the Federal Flight Surgeon said the FAA will move forward with implementing mandatory screening and testing for obstructive sleep apnea despite opposition from the pilot and aviation medical communities.

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/December/12/faa-will-move-forward-with-sleep-apnea-policy.aspx?CMP=ADV:2

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[normiss 622]

I'm thinking it's time to let instructor ratings fade....
It's not worth the additional costs, risks, hassles, harassment, nor wear and tear on the body.
BEFORE considering the legal risks.

[mjosparky 3]

normiss

I don't agree that requiring a drug test is the qualifier to being classified an employee.
Requiring me to be a certain place, at a certain time, and doing some work precisely as instructed by the DZ?
Now that I think .... umm .... yeah.


A drug screen prior to allowing a sub to work for you is not a game changer and is quite typical. Expected even.

You are right on this issue. Very few people working for a DZ in any capacity are “independent contractors” working under a 1099. The DZ sets their hours, tells them what to do and when to it and even supplies the tools needed to do the job.
The IRS and Courts have made it pretty clear the difference between “independent contractor” and employ. And as an employ the DZ has the right to make drug testing a condition of employment.

Sparky

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Employee-vs.-Independent-Contractor-%E2%80%93-Seven-Tips-for-Business-Owners

http://www.legalzoom.com/everyday-law/workplace/employee-vs-independent-contractor-differences

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[justme12001 0]

I have found if you explain to your primary physician(if you have a good one) about the third class medical, they can prescribe certain drugs and state that it is for something other than what it is usually(or actually) prescribed for.

IE, my wife takes an anti-depressant, but its not for depression, but for her trouble sleeping. Lots of drugs have unusual side effects and can prescribed for those side effects.

[mjosparky 3]

justme12001

I have found if you explain to your primary physician(if you have a good one) about the third class medical, they can prescribe certain drugs and state that it is for something other than what it is usually(or actually) prescribed for.

IE, my wife takes an anti-depressant, but its not for depression, but for her trouble sleeping. Lots of drugs have unusual side effects and can prescribed for those side effects.

If he can be that easily talked into doing something illegal I would be looking for a Dr. with more integrity.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[theonlyski 3]

TheCaptain

I have been to a few different doctors for the flight physical. One(the cheaper one is more or less a joke) the other was quite thorough. That being said there are things that do not make them a joke too. If you take anti-depressants it is my understanding you will never be able to pass, or DUII and I have found out if you take blood pressure meds you can pass but there are quite a few more hoops to jump through. I am sure there are other meds that may put a person through more hoops or exclude them too

Not quite true, the FAA allows pilots to be granted medicals if they've been using certain anti-depressants for at least a year with no issues.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item47/amd/antidepressants/


While on my third deployment, I got treated for depression by the TMC shrink. I put that on the damn medical application for a 3rd class and wouldn't ya know it, even though it was a couple years prior, I was deferred to OKC which added another 8-10 weeks to my medical being approved... I wasn't even taking meds!

I was actually just talking with another pilot I work with about this article. Seems like it wouldn't help me much (it does say that it's limited to VFR only) but for guys like him with no intention of flying in the clouds, it could make life a little easier.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[theonlyski 3]

normiss

I'm thinking it's time to let instructor ratings fade....
It's not worth the additional costs, risks, hassles, harassment, nor wear and tear on the body.
BEFORE considering the legal risks.

My Coach, AFF-I and TI ratings are expiring on the 31st. Darn.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Ron 7]

Quote

I have found if you explain to your primary physician(if you have a good one) about the third class medical, they can prescribe certain drugs and state that it is for something other than what it is usually(or actually) prescribed for.

IE, my wife takes an anti-depressant, but its not for depression, but for her trouble sleeping. Lots of drugs have unusual side effects and can prescribed for those side effects.

Why you take the drug does not matter. The drug is the issue in my case.

Drug 'A' works great, but it is not on the FAA's list of approved drugs.
Brug 'B' is less effective and messes with my stomach but it is approved.

The FAA is behind the times on the third class medical. The USPA is behind that.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334