Responces to a troll.

[labrys 0]

Quote

Without the exposure to a wider range of views and debate, I doubt I'd have have worked out all of the right answers from first principles.

likestojump has it - use all sources of information, but figure out who has good advice, and who does not. I know the 15 or so posters whose advice I would weight heavily on here, and ChrisD is not one of them.

I agree with this. I've been around here for about the same amount of time. In the beginning, I learned a lot just watching people dissenting with each other. It became pretty obvious pretty fast that certain people almost always got a lot of argument while others got a lot of praise. People like ChrisD get flushed pretty quickly

Owned by Remi #?

[labrys 0]

Remember tunaplanet?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=757842;search_string=MFF;#757842

Owned by Remi #?

[ChrisD 0]

mjosparky

Below are a few posts made in responce to a guy many believe to be a troll.

________________________________________

*****, are you going to do any beneficial work to help skydiving or our organization, or are you just going to go on and on posting nonsense in dropzone.com forums?
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Many of those full of shit post of yours in fact are worded like you think you got some big handle on the facts, when in fact you don't.... other wise you wouldn't cloud the topic at hand with stupid ass Canadian doctors report that has no direct baring on this topic.
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But the deliberate way you try to sound more knowledgeable than you actually are in some areas makes every post you make suspect. 'I started skydiving back in the 70's, implying that you've 40 years of experience - we both know that isn't the case.
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You're a really wierd guy...
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Please stop selling your opinions as facts. They aren't...
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You on the other hand are known to give rambling, partly incoherent, highly biased and opinionated rants with a high level of anger at some meaningless regional politics that you are involved in. Most people here just ignore you. You reap what you sow.
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In your profile you list you location as San Diego, your country of origin as Zimbabwe and your home DZ as Deland. You don’t list you jump history or your name. Your posts are in many cases condescending and in most cases long, rambling and wrong.
________________________________________

After watching you post in this an the other thread, you're on going rambling bullshit, it is quite clear you know little of the topic at hand and it would serve all of us who do grasp it and deal with the issue in our daily life's, if you could learn to shut the fuck up about topics you don't know shit about!
________________________________________

Book reviews on Amazon in December this year by said troll.

Basic Canopy Flight - Laidlaw

Parachute and its Pilot – Brian Germain

How to Pack a Parachute – Chris

Sparky

I never intended to offend anyone. I was just trying to act like some of you here, I guess I screwed up some,....

I'll try to be better as time goes on. I did actually make some calls, I'm learning.

Thanks

C

In my defense , perhaps some of you could have PM'd me a little earlier. ? I mean before I made a total fucking asshole of myself?

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[mark 102]

ChrisD

In my defense, perhaps some of you could have PM'd me a little earlier.

What I hear you saying is that in some way your behavior is somebody else's fault.

Mark

[mcordell 2]

I started in 2008 so I haven't been around for all that long but I grew up on a dropzone so I felt like I had a leg up on the typical newbie. When I started off I advanced at a normal pace but admittedly was cocky. I thought I knew more than I did. I had packed before and just knew it was no big deal and one day I went out to the DZ and was waiting to go up on a load. I grabbed a rig that was unpacked and packed it but when I did, I misrouted the bridle. My instructor did a pin check and felt like something didn't look quite right but after looking closer he couldn't figure out what it was so up we went. I had routed my bridle over the flap to the pin, back over the flap and out the bottom. This inevitably caused my first high speed malfunction and subsequent reserve ride (at least I beat the AAD right?).

When I got down and found out what I did wrong the DZO was pissed. I totally understood but on some level I still wasn't willing to take all the blame so I blamed the instructor that did the pin check for not catching it.

Not long after that I ordered a shiny new rig with a brand new main and a standard pilot chute. I didn't know what I didn't know, so I didn't order a collapsible pilot chute and I made a few jumps with my new gear and then I got my hands on a collapsible. I pulled all my gear out in my living room and rigged up my new PC. The next jump I had a high speed malfunction and reserve ride, then two out and a cutaway. It took me a while to find my main in a corn field and people seemed upset. I didn't understand why...after all, it was my gear right? I hadn't rigged the PC right and even though I cocked it, it collapsed before it could lift the bag out. Opening my reserve did it though.

I caused some problems with my behavior. I have realized my errors and I totally get why there are still people that don't really like me being out there. That was 6 years ago and people remember how cocky I was and I think that's the impression they will always have of me. I don't know what the DZO thinks but he is gracious enough to have looked past it and allows me to jump there still. I have calmed down a lot, but for some it is just too late. They don't really have the desire to get to know me again after the first impression I gave them.

My point is, Chris did act like an asshole and I do believe he oversold his experience (or undersold his inexperience). I know for many that probably seals the deal that he's a troll and that's ok. I'm personally inclined to give a guy a second chance so long as something has changed.

Chris, the flip side of that is that may want to listen to the problems people have had with your posts. Don't blame others for your own mistakes. It's not people's jobs to tell you when you are being a dick...it's your job not to be one. I learned that lesson the hard way.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[NWFlyer 2]

ChrisD

In my defense , perhaps some of you could have PM'd me a little earlier. ? I mean before I made a total fucking asshole of myself?

Considering that you laid out your exact M.O. in the thread linked below, I find this claim of innocence more than a little disingenuous.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4579897#4579897

Quote

In other words if people believe that a person is credible and or popular, what they have to say is more believable, even when the more popular persons information is bullshit. If you take the time to go view my past posts I have been very careful to only quote the SIM, IRM, and other purportedly experienced people that have served skydiving for many decades. Everything I have said here, except for some personal and sarcastic banter has come from prior searches! And I have done this to raise awareness.

The first bolded sentence is pure bullshit and it'd take me about 5 seconds to find multiple examples of you throwing out an unsubstantiated personal opinion as fact, with absolutely no citation to an industry standard manual or an industry expert.

And, the second bolded statement shows what you've been up to all along. You've come into this forum out of spite (you've called out more than a few in the New England DZ community by name - sounds like someone pissed on your Wheaties there), or because you want to "experiment" (you've regularly claimed that a a well-respected seller of used gear is duping newbies - real classy to waltz in here and try to piss on someone's reputation just to make some kind of convoluted point about credibility).

I could send you a PM, but the message would be pretty straightforward: "Please stop posting here."

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[ChrisD 0]

mark

***In my defense, perhaps some of you could have PM'd me a little earlier.

What I hear you saying is that in some way your behavior is somebody else's fault.

Mark

NO, I just could have used a heads up!

C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[ChrisD 0]

I wasn't trying to piss on anyone's reputation, just trying to be short.

C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

ChrisD

I never intended to offend anyone. I was just trying to act like some of you here, I guess I screwed up some,....

I'll try to be better as time goes on. I did actually make some calls, I'm learning.

Thanks

C

In my defense , perhaps some of you could have PM'd me a little earlier. ? I mean before I made a total fucking asshole of myself?

Didn't you get the message in the open forums?

People were asking you to tone down your vitriol for some time and you responded "Its just the internet." In case you didn't notice, most people on here are reasonably polite, at least in the serious discussions.

You were asked repeatedly for your jump numbers, licenses held and home DZ. You chose to ignore those requests.

I still haven't seen you admit your jump numbers, just that you don't have a lot of experience because of financial constraints.
And I've seen some speculation that ranges from a couple student jumps a long time ago and a recent tandem to a B license.

So I will ask AGAIN:

WHAT IS YOUR LICENCE LEVEL?
HOW MANY JUMPS HAVE YOU MADE?
WHERE DO YOU (DID YOU) JUMP?

If you want to redeem yourself at all (at least in my eyes), answer the questions.

And given what I said above:
What good would a PM have done?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[labrys 0]

Joe, I think it's blazingly obvious that this guy is either a remorseless troll or that he has real cognitive issues and doesn't understand that what he's doing is wrong. I don't think that demanding credentials is going to help in either case.

I guess we'll just keep an eye on him, huh?

Owned by Remi #?

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

labrys

Joe, I think it's blazingly obvious that this guy is either a remorseless troll or that he has real cognitive issues and doesn't understand that what he's doing is wrong. I don't think that demanding credentials is going to help in either case.

I guess we'll just keep an eye on him, huh?

Maybe.

Or maybe he still doesn't understand how some of us feel about his behavior.

I think we all hate seeing someone come on here and pretend to be an expert, offering bad advice, potentially getting someone hurt.

I'd like to think he didn't understand how that could happen.
This sport is one of a very few where bad advice is:
A - Hard to spot for rookies
B - Potentially fatal if followed

As DaveLepka pointed out, "This isn't an X-box or Chevy Truck forum."
And I'd hope that his new attitude is real, not just "playing nice" to get back in our good graces.

But I don't know.

If he has any real desire to be part of this community, then he needs (IMHO) to be open and honest from here on in.
He needs to stop giving advice about stuff he knows nothing about (including FAA medicals) and learn.

He might become welcome here, in our weird little on line community.
Or maybe not.

My point was that he was asked about his credentials. He never answered.
He was "outed" as a newbie.
He sort of admitted it, but not fully.
He was "outed" as a B License holder.
He hasn't commented on that, as far as I've seen.

If he is sincere about wanting to be a part of us, then I would like to know from him what the truth is.

And I'm rather curious to see what, if any, response this gets.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[hookitt 0]

mjosparky

Below are a few posts made in responce to a guy many believe to be a troll.
Sparky

I think he is informative, succinct, knowledgeable, ... Let's just skip all the way to awesome.

Skipping the rest of the adjectives in the middle, saves me from lots of thumb typing.

I never had a doubt about Three Billy Goats Gruff

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[mcordell 2]

so was I the only one that got a message saying there are several chris donovans out there and that you guys have the wrong one? I'm confused. If I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt I need clarification. He also assured me he has been jumping since the 70s soooooo.........?

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[likestojump 3]

mcordell

so was I the only one that got a message saying there are several chris donovans out there and that you guys have the wrong one? I'm confused. If I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt I need clarification. He also assured me he has been jumping since the 70s soooooo.........?

Yet again, using common sense alone :

Name matches
Location matches
If we are to believe that he did in fact pay for an FJC at PI, then age matches as well (PI seized existence in 1981ish, so this makes him at least 32 years older now then when he bought the ticket).
Even attitude matches, although that is my highly subjective opinion

So, ask yourself - what are the chances of two Chris Donovans doing something skydiving related around Boston area and then coming onto dz.com forums and spewing skydiving and Pepperell/Orage related crap ?

Not convinced ? In that case, how come this ChrisD character has already altered his dz.com profile with different gear info and name, and removed his personal email address ?

Too many coincidences for this to be a simple case of mistaken identity.

[mcordell 2]

Yea he also told me he isnt the one from orange...after he posted about jumping there

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[ChrisD 0]

likestojump

***so was I the only one that got a message saying there are several chris donovans out there and that you guys have the wrong one? I'm confused. If I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt I need clarification. He also assured me he has been jumping since the 70s soooooo.........?

Yet again, using common sense alone :

Name matches
Location matches
If we are to believe that he did in fact pay for an FJC at PI, then age matches as well (PI seized existence in 1981ish, so this makes him at least 32 years older now then when he bought the ticket).
Even attitude matches, although that is my highly subjective opinion

So, ask yourself - what are the chances of two Chris Donovans doing something skydiving related around Boston area and then coming onto dz.com forums and spewing skydiving and Pepperell/Orage related crap ?

Not convinced ? In that case, how come this ChrisD character has already altered his dz.com profile with different gear info and name, and removed his personal email address ?

Too many coincidences for this to be a simple case of mistaken identity.

I changed my profile information to stop the spam. Anyone is always free to P.M. me. I have about 350 - 400 jumps, over the years. I have a B lic at the moment, I should fill out the PW for the C. That tandem video is from Pepperell and if you guys do the math it's easy to see it doesn't jive with a picture from the 70's and C Donovan is a very common name.

What's next a quart of blood?

C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[JeffCa 0]

I've been on DZ.com for a little more than a year now, and there are various people that I do trust and respect nearly completely, even if they sometimes (errr... often?) contradict each other. Their reputations have been supported by others and they post some quality stuff.

The list includes (not exhaustive):

Brian Germain
Bill Booth
John Sherman
BillVon
DaveLepka
Sparky
Airtwardo
DSE
RiggerLee and a few others with Rigger in front of their name


In my opinion, anybody who tries to make themselves seem more credible than they are, by lying about years, jump numbers or ratings, should be permanently banned. It can mislead those of us who are still trying to find out who's who here, and that can be dangerous in this game.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

[mik 2]

JeffCa

I've been on DZ.com for a little more than a year now, and there are various people that I do trust and respect nearly completely, even if they sometimes (errr... often?) contradict each other. Their reputations have been supported by others and they post some quality stuff.

The list includes (not exhaustive):

Brian Germain
Bill Booth
John Sherman
BillVon
DaveLepka
Sparky
Airtwardo
DSE
RiggerLee and a few others with Rigger in front of their name


In my opinion, anybody who tries to make themselves seem more credible than they are, by lying about years, jump numbers or ratings, should be permanently banned. It can mislead those of us who are still trying to find out who's who here, and that can be dangerous in this game.

I understand your sentiments but I guess it could be difficult to police.

For my part, I have never understood why some of the regular posters choose to say they have 1 (or 999999) jumps.... some I know have relatively few jumps and I guess they are scared that revealing this would undermine their credibility and points they are very willing to make.

It may be unrealistic to expect to people to have jump numbers absolutely up to date, but I like to know whether the person whose advice I am reading has hundreds vs thousands of jumps or 1 year vs 20 in the sport, for example. This information might help the newer jumpers to filter the bullshit (although I remember how much in awe I was of people with 100 jumps when I started the sport... now I know a number of people with 5000+ jumps who absolutely believe they are not highly experienced).

***********************************************
I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[nigel99 144]

Firstly I think people take dz.com far to seriously. There are more than enough idiots handing out advice to newbies at the dropzones face to face to make up for any bad advice issued here where hopefully average joe knows not to take advice off the internet.

This isn't some sort of wikipedia of jumping, and frankly a reasonable portion of the time, even experienced and sensible jumpers fail to notice geographic location and give advice from the SIM, even though it has no relevance.

With regards to facts and figures on your profile, not everyones background is simple. For example my years in the sport are 4yrs active + 15 year break but still in close contact with jumping friends + 3 years back in full time. So do I put 3, 7 or 22 years? Similar for jumps do I include the jumps from many years ago on C-9's (~150), total jumps or the approximate 200 jumps I did last year? I've got more round jumps than most jumpers on dz.com, so probably know more than most on that subject, I've got 1 freefly jump and know less than your average B license jumper about that topic.

So frankly I can't be bothered with the nuance of it and have 1,1, I've seen enough people with single discipline jump numbers given stupid advice in other areas where they should just shut up. So dz.com doesn't give the ability to highlight jumps in discipline. Hang around enough and you know that Ian is the swooping guru, Twardo for demos, etc.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[mcordell 2]

so can I ask then, are you saying that tandem video is NOT you? You elude to things sometimes without outright saying one thing or another so I was just curious...is that your video or not?

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[likestojump 3]

ChrisD

I changed my profile information to stop the spam. Anyone is always free to P.M. me. I have about 350 - 400 jumps, over the years. I have a B lic at the moment, I should fill out the PW for the C. That tandem video is from Pepperell and if you guys do the math it's easy to see it doesn't jive with a picture from the 70's and C Donovan is a very common name.

What's next a quart of blood?

C

How does changing the profile to say that you are flying a Velocity120 and an Optimum168 (which is not a manufactured model) help cut down on spam ?

[J-S 0]

You state you have 350-400 jumps. You're still a student, as I am.

I read the forums all the time. If I wanted to I could reiterate and post similarly to posts/threads as the more experienced can from reading their repeated responses. I don't have the jump numbers, time in the sport, actually experienced what they have, the respect they've earned, so I don't deserve to post advice, neither do you, other than "listen to your instructors".

The posts that you post that ARE comprehensible remind me of when "Shah" (another low jumper number guy) was telling other students to watch youtube videos to learn how to flare. Ill, inexperienced wrong advise. Your posts clutter up the forums with arguments of you trying to validate your inexperience. Annoying when I'm trying read different viewpoints on a giving subject from the experienced jumpers.

Stop posting about stuff you don't know about, jump more, get some ratings, learn to teach/preach from experience and learn to write (feels like I'm crazy when I try to understand what the hell you're trying to write).

If you really have 350-400 jumps I'd hope you know by now giving out inappropriate or uneducated responses can get someone killed.

Take no offense to what I've said, I'm just blunt. Keep your lack of skydiving knowledge to impress the girls at the bar that will never jump or take your knowledge to the skies. Seems not too many here are impressed. Be safe and have fun, shut up, jump.

Edit: I spotted your BS a while ago.

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

mcordell

so can I ask then, are you saying that tandem video is NOT you? You allude to things sometimes without outright saying one thing or another so I was just curious...is that your video or not?

Bingo.

Evasive and incomplete answers to direct questions. And complaints about being picked on.

That hasn't changed

That is enough answer for me.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[kallend 1,625]

virgin-burner

******Yep, it's high in the BFD, don't let it take space in your brain department.

Remember that no one reads posts that are that long anyway, so it's unlikely he's led too many people astray

Wendy P.

Be is as it may, it's still infuriating to listen to someone spew garbage on unsuspecting public.

Internet is a wonderful thing, but it gives people a false sense of expertise :)

back in the days when i started this jumping-thingy, my instructor said "dude, DO NOT EVER take ANY advice from dropzone.com; it's DANGEROUS!". he does have a point..

Unfortunately there are some holders of instructional ratings who give unsafe advice too. "The 45 degree rule" comes to mind. A couple of very well respected skydivers have been enlightened on this in DZ.COM forums.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,123]

On the tandem, there are two possible answers.

1. There is another Chris Donovan in the Boston area who made a tandem. Not unlikely, because there are a ton of Irish around there.

2. He did it, "checking out the operation, " as an experienced jumper pretending to be a newbie. Which is an expensive way to generate a funny story.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)