Defense Spending

[JoeWeber 2,299]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

Once you get over your national fascination with chest thumping and loud bleating perhaps you will change your spending priorities to be more in line with the rest of the civilized world. In the meantime I would advise you not to hold your breath waiting for us to follow you down the path of letting weapons manufacturers buy your government. And we will try our best not to openly laugh in your faces for your folly.

FIFY

Okay, I get it, we suck and aren't truly doing our part but once you get over your national fascination with chest thumping and loud bleating perhaps you will change your spending priorities to be more in line with the rest of the civilized world. In the meantime I would advise you not to hold your breath waiting for us to follow you down the path of letting weapons manufacturers buy your government. And we will try our best not to openly laugh in your faces for your folly.

 

[SkyDekker 1,122]

15 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Gonna buy some of them Boeings I hear.

Great choice considering our mild climate, short flight distances and abundance of aircraft carriers.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

15 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

One thing you might consider is that the American taxpayer, all of whom are Americans, have been guaranteeing your freedoms for quite some time.

Ah yes, the "we will beat you if you aren't grateful" tactic.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

13 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Canadians will have nice teeth

Dental care is not part of our national healthcare plan...yet.

[ryoder 1,384]

18 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Dental care is not part of our national healthcare plan...yet.

It has never made any sense to me how teeth and eyes are somehow not part of the human body for the purposes of insurance.

[gowlerk 1,912]

15 minutes ago, ryoder said:

It has never made any sense to me how teeth and eyes are somehow not part of the human body for the purposes of insurance.

It has nothing to do with the patients. Dentist and optician are part of different systems from the rest of healthcare. 

[SkyDekker 1,122]

25 minutes ago, ryoder said:

It has never made any sense to me how teeth and eyes are somehow not part of the human body for the purposes of insurance.

Joe will be upset that Trudeau had to agree to national dental care in order to get support for increased military spending.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

55 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Ah yes, the "we will beat you if you aren't grateful" tactic.

That's lame. It's not a game when you are the payers. The numbers don't lie and the truth is that Canada, even more so than many of our allies, has gone on the cheap when it comes to defense spending. Let's not pretend it's for any reason other than Canadians have selfishly allowed American taxpayers to foot their security bill knowing that our presence next door makes it possible. 

[SkyDekker 1,122]

10 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

That's lame. It's not a game when you are the payers.

Which is completely different from: sorry Ukraine, I know you are suffering, but we want other countries to pay more to our military contractors, so we are not going to intervene.

Canada definitely needs to fix its military. Not only spend more, but probably change the toxic culture before just pumping more money into it.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

27 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Which is completely different from: sorry Ukraine, I know you are suffering, but we want other countries to pay more to our military contractors, so we are not going to intervene.

Is that what I said or are you just tossing out a straw man for giggles? Also, take as much time as you need to fix the toxic culture in the Canadian military, we'll be here if you need us.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Is that what I said or are you just tossing out a straw man for giggles?

"Sending troops and threatening war isn't smart; it's a fools game most times. Let's spend less money and really beat the bastards. For example, and given that there really isn't jack we can do, let's take this opportune moment to remind our European Allies and our Canadian friends why going on the cheap with your military won't do anymore: 'cause we ain't coming. "

[ryoder 1,384]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

It has nothing to do with the patients. Dentist and optician are part of different systems from the rest of healthcare. 

Are you sure?

It is common here for eye care businesses to have an ophthalmologist on staff. That is a full-fledged MD who specializes in the eye.

When I lost a tooth recently, I was sent to an oral surgeon for the extraction and implant work. He is an MD who used to work for the VA doing (as he put it) "facial reconstruction on people who were thrown through the windshield while not wearing a seatbelt".

Medicare does not cover eye care, unless you have been diagnosed with developing cataracts, then it does cover an annual eye exam.

Seems like the division is pretty darned blurry.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

53 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

"Sending troops and threatening war isn't smart; it's a fools game most times. Let's spend less money and really beat the bastards. For example, and given that there really isn't jack we can do, let's take this opportune moment to remind our European Allies and our Canadian friends why going on the cheap with your military won't do anymore: 'cause we ain't coming. "

Thanks. So it's not what I said and you were just projecting. Not sending troops and spending less money isn't the same as no engagement or winning in a smarter way.

Maybe you can just be honest and agree that the only reason Canada goes so cheap on their military is because there is no fear of attack from the North Pole or Greenland.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

16 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Maybe you can just be honest and agree that the only reason Canada goes so cheap on their military is because there is no fear of attack from the North Pole or Greenland.

Our biggest fear I think should be the loss of democracy and subsequent threat from our southern neighbours. Even the liberal ones seem to agree that unless countries do exactly what the US want they deserve to suffer, add to that the threat of a GOP majority and second Trump or Trump-like presidency and it is by far the greatest threat to Canada.

18 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

So it's not what I said and you were just projecting. Not sending troops and spending less money isn't the same as no engagement or winning in a smarter way.

Sure. And my God this man cannot be in power is not the same as calling for regime change and ok isn't really ok.

[gowlerk 1,912]

40 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Are you sure?

Yes, an opthamologist is an MD., but an optometrist is not. But really what I am saying relates to the situation here. Our medicare does not cover dentistry, or glasses, or prescriptions outside of hospital care. Although there are programs in different provinces that do cover these things to some degree. Cataract surgery would be an insured item, but Lasik is not. 

[gowlerk 1,912]

29 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Maybe you can just be honest and agree that the only reason Canada goes so cheap on their military is because there is no fear of attack from the North Pole or Greenland.

Geography matters. We are a huge area with a small population. Most of the nation is not defensible but also not vulnerable. And we are pretty sure the US is not coming for us militarily because our relationship with you is in no way threatening leaving neither side with little to gain but lots to lose in any military conflict. You already have access to any of our resources you need as long as you have the greenbacks to pay. And we are happy to sell them to you and buy most of the manufactured goods we need from you or the Canadian companies here that you own. It has been a very long time since there was any reason for us to seriously fear your mighty power. Our whole economy is basically based on being a branch operation of corporate America. We are not trying to dominate the world so we don't spend like we want to. You are welcome to apply to move here if you feel we have too many advantages. I hope you like snow as much as you like semi tropical islands though.

[brenthutch 383]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

our relationship with you is in no way threatening 

Then explain this

https://clip.cafe/south-park-bigger-longer-andamp-uncut-1999/baldwin-residence/

 

[JoeWeber 2,299]

19 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Geography matters. We are a huge area with a small population. Most of the nation is not defensible but also not vulnerable. And we are pretty sure the US is not coming for us militarily because our relationship with you is in no way threatening leaving neither side with little to gain but lots to lose in any military conflict. You already have access to any of our resources you need as long as you have the greenbacks to pay. And we are happy to sell them to you and buy most of the manufactured goods we need from you or the Canadian companies here that you own. It has been a very long time since there was any reason for us to seriously fear your mighty power. Our whole economy is basically based on being a branch operation of corporate America. We are not trying to dominate the world so we don't spend like we want to. You are welcome to apply to move here if you feel we have too many advantages. I hope you like snow as much as you like semi tropical islands though.

And that diatribe has to do with sacrificing on a shared basis for the mutual defense of western democracy how? 1.4% of GDP is all you spend as a contribution. Both you and SkyDekker have every right to point out our flaws and make suggestions but for Christ's sake please grasp that what advantages you enjoy socially are paid for in part by not keeping up your end of the mutual defense deal.

[Phil1111 911]

55 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

...Maybe you can just be honest and agree that the only reason Canada goes so cheap on their military is because there is no fear of attack from the North Pole or Greenland.

Canada goes cheap on its military because it loves social programs. Child care for $10 a day was the latest.  There are segments on the left in Canada that don't like the military. The idea of NATO commitment is to send a few troops with rifles and not much more. Because there isn't much more. Canada has few if any laser or GPS guided weapons. Most US aircraft get upgrades twice before a Canadian one gets one.

These issues are endlessly debated. But when push comes to shove. Social programs get funding new tanks don't. Its not that Canada relies upon the US for defense. We are not close to any hostile neighbors.

Look at the jet that the Snowbirds aerobatic team uses. The last one rolled off the assembly line 56 years ago.

 

[SkyDekker 1,122]

10 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Canada goes cheap on its military because it loves social programs.

Bullshit. This isn't an either or equation. Never has been. Simple soundbites like that are rather asinine.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

4 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Bullshit. This isn't an either or equation. Never has been. Simple soundbites like that are rather asinine.

I agree. Canada goes cheap because it has strong friends. If the US were Mexico Canada would for sure be pulling it's weight.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

If the US were Mexico Canada would for sure be pulling it's weight.

"Mexico will pay for it" would still be a thing.

[ryoder 1,384]

The Canadians should be thankful for the USA paying $7.2M for Alaska in 1867, else they would have a border with Russia right now!

[gowlerk 1,912]

4 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Let's not pretend it's for any reason other than Canadians are smarter than Americans.

FIFY  

[JoeWeber 2,299]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

FIFY  

Let's not pretend it's for any reason other than Canadians are smarter than Americans.

Yep, in fact picking when it comes to up the dinner check Canada is smarter than everyone except Slovenia and Portugal. https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2021/6/pdf/210611-pr-2021-094-en.pdf

In all seriousness, Canadians should be embarrassed. Moreover, some Canadians should be a little more understanding of attitudes held by the likes of myself, Keith, Brent and anyone else that would care to join in.