Ukraine

[BIGUN 1,075]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Help the Ukrainian people in every way.

Three children get killed in a school shooting in the US and the liberals will suddenly rise up and take action. Three children in the Ukraine get killed by an invading army and they want to break out their toolkit of denunciations and sanctions. Sanctions don't take minute or hours or sometimes even months to be effective. They don't even make Putin slow down before he starts. So basically, let's just box up the liberal equivalent of "Thoughts and Prayers" and ship it on over.      

[ryoder 1,400]

42 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

I don't think China is at all helped by a renewed cold war or active war. I wouldn't quickly assume China and Russia are aligned.

But Xi Jinping desperately wants to do to Taiwan, what Putin is doing to Ukraine, so they will back Russia.

[TriGirl 277]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

Our only strategic move is to strengthen the NATO borders.

Check out the 2014 NDAA -- specifically the European Deterrence Initiative (EDI).  We re-allocated a ton of money to security cooperation build-up to the eastern flank of NATO.  It's been going on now for nearly eight years, and has shown significant growth in partner development programs.  Its success inspired the corresponding Pacific Deterrence Initiative written into the 2020 NDAA.  That one has yet to be funded, as we have had other emerging requirements in the meantime, but Congress has recognized the need for longer-term cooperation and development programs so our regional partners and allies can do the job themselves, with out relying on the major powers to come to the rescue in a crisis.

[gowlerk 1,929]

37 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Sanctions don't take minute or hours or sometimes even months to be effective. They don't even make Putin slow down before he starts. So basically, let's just box up the liberal equivalent of "Thoughts and Prayers" and ship it on over.      

Since the US conservative position on this is running solidly in favour of Putin I don't see where you get the nerve to attack the left over this. I am just reading that Russian banks are having a run on deposits and that their central bank is issuing calming statements that everyone knows is bullshit. That will turn public opinion in Russia quickly, even with strict media control.

[JoeWeber 2,330]

31 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Three children get killed in a school shooting in the US and the liberals will suddenly rise up and take action. Three children in the Ukraine get killed by an invading army and they want to break out their toolkit of denunciations and sanctions. Sanctions don't take minute or hours or sometimes even months to be effective. They don't even make Putin slow down before he starts. So basically, let's just box up the liberal equivalent of "Thoughts and Prayers" and ship it on over.      

We are not the worlds policeman and just because we have a lot of idle green uniforms doesn't mean we should be itching to deploy them. Beyond that your analogy is specious. Yes, we want to take action when school shootings occur. No, we don't want to attack NRA Headquarters and kill the bastards. It's a dirty, filthy world full of assholes and grave suffering every day, not just lately. Sending troops and threatening war isn't smart; it's a fools game most times. Let's spend less money and really beat the bastards. For example, and given that there really isn't jack we can do, let's take this opportune moment to remind our European Allies and our Canadian friends why going on the cheap with your military won't do anymore: 'cause we ain't coming. 

[gowlerk 1,929]

[gowlerk 1,929]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

let's take this opportune moment to remind our European Allies and our Canadian friends why going on the cheap with your military won't do anymore: 'cause we ain't coming.

That's funny. You will of course be the invaders when the time comes for Canada. Manifest destiny and all.

[gowlerk 1,929]

It seems to me that the 190,000 troops that Putin is reported to have thrown into this adventure is not even close to enough to effectively control an area the size of Ukraine. What do the military experienced people here think?  

[BIGUN 1,075]

4 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

It seems to me that the 190,000 troops that Putin is reported to have thrown into this adventure is not even close to enough to effectively control an area the size of Ukraine. What do the military experienced people here think?  

It's the largest mobilization since WWII. I think you should turn on the TV. 

[BIGUN 1,075]

39 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

US conservative position on this is running solidly in favour of Putin

Please don't confuse three talking heads with the conservative position. 

[gowlerk 1,929]

2 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Please don't confuse three talking heads with the conservative position. 

Don't forget the titular leader of the movement. There is a lot of support in the Christian conservative movement for Vlad, defender of the faith and oppressor of all things wrong in society.

[brenthutch 388]

6 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

It seems to me that the 190,000 troops that Putin is reported to have thrown into this adventure is not even close to enough to effectively control an area the size of Ukraine. What do the military experienced people here think?  

Russia can destroy Ukraine’s conventional military, but there is no way 190,000 is enough troops to secure the entire country leaving open the possibility of a robust insurgency based in the western region and supported by the West.

[gowlerk 1,929]

5 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

It's the largest mobilization since WWII. I think you should turn on the TV. 

It is reported to be 190,000 troops. 2.7 million Americans served in Vietnam. Your view of history is distorted. 160,000 Americans were overseas at the peak of the invasion of Iraq. But what I am asking is not about the taking of Ukraine, but holding it.

[SkyDekker 1,147]

16 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Please don't confuse three talking heads with the conservative position. 

True. Since CPAC is ongoing, great time to gauge what the conservative position really is. So far there has been very little said about Putin, Russia or Ukraine. Lots about the horror of masks, vaccines, CRT and gay kids.

So far it would seem republican leadership doesn't care too much, other than doing exactly what BH is doing here: complain about Biden.

Edited February 25, 2022 by SkyDekker
too not to

[brenthutch 388]

https://climatechangedispatch.com/how-the-green-movement-empowered-putins-invasion-of-ukraine/
 

“And the reason he cannot actually do much more short of war is that he and the leaders of western Europe—bamboozled by the prospect of “climate change”—have made themselves poorer and weaker by eviscerating conventional fuel production.

While they without ample reason were discarding a very good hand, Russian president Putin was improving his by exploiting and selling to us and Europe his nations’ fossil fuels.

In 2020 the U.S. was a net exporter of petroleum. In 2021 we imported between 12 million and 26 million barrels of crude oil and petroleum from Russia every month.

In November 2021, the most recent figures on record, the Energy Information Agency reports that the U.S. took 17.8 million barrels.“

And that is why Biden can’t hit Putin where it hurts.

 

[SkyDekker 1,147]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Russia can destroy Ukraine’s conventional military, but there is no way 190,000 is enough troops to secure the entire country leaving open the possibility of a robust insurgency based in the western region and supported by the West.

Also an army largely made up with (forced) conscripted soldiers. Not sure many of them really want to be there long term.

[JerryBaumchen 1,068]

5 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

It is reported to be 190,000 troops. 2.7 million Americans served in Vietnam. Your view of history is distorted. 160,000 Americans were overseas at the peak of the invasion of Iraq. But what I am asking is not about the taking of Ukraine, but holding it.

Hi Ken,

At no time were there 2.7 million American soldiers in Vietnam.  

Jerry Baumchen

[SkyDekker 1,147]

2 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

In November 2021, the most recent figures on record, the Energy Information Agency reports that the U.S. took 17.8 million barrels.“

And that is why Biden can’t hit Putin where it hurts.

That conclusion doesn't make any sense. 17.8 Million barrels is about 3% of the current strategic reserve. Easily replaced by other sources.

[BIGUN 1,075]

Just now, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Ken,

At no time were there 2.7 million American soldiers in Vietnam. 

This.  

[SkyDekker 1,147]

2 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Ken,

At no time were there 2.7 million American soldiers in Vietnam.  

Jerry Baumchen

You are all talking past each other.

I think what Ken is getting at that long term it is going to take millions of soldiers to stay in Ukraine.....not all at once, but replace etc....just like Vietnam.

[brenthutch 388]

4 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

That conclusion doesn't make any sense. 17.8 Million barrels is about 3% of the current strategic reserve. Easily replaced by other sources.

The Keystone pipeline would have easily replaced Russian oil.  I agree we can do without Russian oil, our NATO allies cannot.

Edited February 25, 2022 by brenthutch

[SkyDekker 1,147]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

We can cut off Russian oil, our NATO allies cannot.

Yes they can, but it will take some doing. never mind that your post had nothing to do with that. Your post stated that Biden can't hurt Russia cause it imports a few million barrels of oil form them...which is an asinine conclusion.

[brenthutch 388]

26 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Yes they can, but it will take some doing. never mind that your post had nothing to do with that. Your post stated that Biden can't hurt Russia cause it imports a few million barrels of oil form them...which is an asinine conclusion.

Biden has to consider our NATO allies.  If you know how Europe can replace 40+% of their natural gas, in the middle of winter, I would love to know.  If we sanction Russian oil and gas and the Eurozone doesn’t we will only be hurting ourselves.

Edited February 25, 2022 by brenthutch

[ryoder 1,400]

Vietnam troop levels by year:

https://www.americanwarlibrary.com/vietnam/vwatl.htm

[gowlerk 1,929]

37 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Ken,

At no time were there 2.7 million American soldiers in Vietnam.  

Jerry Baumchen

I know Jerry. That is how many served in total. I stopped looking before I found the peak number.