chuckakers 370 #26 September 3, 2015 RiggerLeeYou people do realize that their are jump suits other then skin tight spandex nylon. Ever hear of a balloon suit? Ever hear of swoop cords. Ever hear of wing, and I don't mean a wing suit. It wont be as easy. Flying these suits is different, it requires different techniques. But he can learn to jump with other people. I've known people of that size that could fly with any one they wanted to. And they weren't 7 foot tall. They were down right round. With the right container. The right reserve. He could do this. Lee Of course we realize there are jumpsuits other than skin tight spandex, and many people jump them. When was the last time you did RW/FS with someone wearing a balloon suit? I've been jumping for 30 years and I have personally done it - never! There's a reason balloon suits went by the wayside. Beyond being difficult to fly, they have almost no range relative to that required in today's more aggressive formation work. In general, the larger the suit, the less range and expeditious movement the jumper will have and balloon suits are the ultimate in large suits. There are a few options out there that might help some, but a balloon suit is not a good one. Wings/swoop cords are an "ok" option but as I mentioned earlier, unless this person is really tall, 285 pounds is likely too heavy for wings to be very effective in staying with others. BTW, heavier folks should be glad many people wear skin tight suits (and some even wear lead). If they didn't the heavies would need even BIGGER suits than they already do.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sammielu 3 #27 September 3, 2015 That reminds me of a friend who got a RW suit with wings, swoop chords, all the baggy options. It took less than a season for him to realize it's easier to lose 30 lbs than work that hard during every single skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dthames 0 #28 September 3, 2015 tikl68It is possible. Like most of the posters have said, gonna have to do some searching for the right equipment, right dz , and right instructors. About 8 years ago at my home DZ we had a guy that was 6' 310 lbs. Not sure where he went through his training, but he had his license and some nice custom gear made for him. What he did in order to not always do solos is he would free fall on his belly and all the free fliers would use him as a base and come in and sting on multi levels. We also had some one go through the aff at my home dz he was 6'1 and 270. once he got his license he bought a new custom 300 sq ft canopy and a custom harness, and had no problems. So it is possible. I think I saw him doing his first flight wingsuit jump in an Apache, this last spring.Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbscout2002 1 #29 September 3, 2015 I wouldn't make the decision based solely on his weight. Aside from a 289+ canopy, do you have a rig with a harness that will fit him properly? Do you have two AFF instructors with the skill level/confidence level to work with him or chase him down? (in case he breaks loose and executes a perfect head down dive for 40 seconds but forgets to pull ) In free fall bigger (fatter) guys actually take to it quite well. The belly makes them more aerodynamic and gives them a good center of gravity during their arch making stability easier for them. They just have to learn from the beginning to fly more spread out. (I know because I am one of them). As for wing loading, remember that a 1:1 on a 300 is a lot different than a 1:1 on a 190. I weighed about 250 when I started, and I'm 5'11. I was one of those individually based decisions, but I was active duty military so health wasn't a concern. my first jump was on a 289 (I don't remember what), but I was probably a good 280/285 going out the door. On the first landing I drift across the DZ wondering if I was ever going to touch down. Next 7 jumps were on a navigator 260. That felt better, but I still felt like it was flying me and I lacked the control to feel confident in all landing conditions. By jump 10 I was on a silhouette 230 (wing load of about 1.2:1) and that was perfect. Obviously I only get away with that wing load because my canopy is a 230, but what I'm saying is that the scale skews a bit as the sizes go up. Weight is something I have always struggled with, but I can fall under 130 without a jumpsuit, 120 with (and I did get swoop cords, but I never use them). My suit isn't rediculously baggy or anything like that. It's just a loose fitting cordura RW suit with booties (that I also don't use half the time). For his weight, of course he needs to lose some, whether he ever jumps or not. Maybe this will motivate him. It worked for me. I've been steadily dropping weight every since I started. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #30 September 3, 2015 Larry Portman and a couple of other guys used to jump balloon suits before he got all skinny. Their are still a few people jumping with swoop cords. It's not that archaic. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #31 September 3, 2015 There is a significant difference between 150 lbs dude flairing too high, and 285lbs dude flairing too high. An ankle can only take so much weight.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #32 September 3, 2015 RiggerLeeLarry Portman and a couple of other guys used to jump balloon suits before he got all skinny. Their are still a few people jumping with swoop cords. It's not that archaic. Lee Depends of course on how you define "that archaic". You just named a whopping one person that you know that used to jump a balloon suit. Yes, swoop cords are still used by some and are useful in certain applications. In my experience, a properly fitted suit with things like appropriate fabrics, oversized grippers, mega booties made from ballistic nylon, and a few other touches does much more to slow fall rate than a basic suit with swoop cords and wings, and still allows for a full range of fall rate.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tikl68 6 #33 September 4, 2015 1 of the guys I was talking about I dont think jumps any more, so was not him, and the other guy i was referring to is Aubrey. Ya Amazon I have not seen Aubrey in over 5 years but it was always cool to see him jumping, and landing his canopy,smoothly, with all the free fliers landing around then high fiving him. I dont know if he has picked up WS dt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #34 September 4, 2015 tikl68 1 of the guys I was talking about I dont think jumps any more, so was not him, and the other guy i was referring to is Aubrey. Ya Amazon I have not seen Aubrey in over 5 years but it was always cool to see him jumping, and landing his canopy,smoothly, with all the free fliers landing around then high fiving him. I dont know if he has picked up WS dt. Aubrey was always a fun guy to hang out with and some of the "chase Aubrey" loads were EPIC watching some of the wee folk trying to stay with him .. then again.. I can easily go over 200 mph in freefall when I need to... or faster when I want to Oh and guys.... my white and red wing wars suit let me jump with the tiny wee little munchkins quite successfully too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #35 September 4, 2015 there are exceptions to every rule - that is a far cry from making the exception the rule. I have vast experience in training students, paras, quads and elderly. If you want a pet project for little or no return, then sure, jump on the bandwagon and start training 300lb people to skydive. Oh wait - what you meant was it is ok for SOMEONE ELSE to do it.....got it. yes that was extreme sarcasm..... which is easier? For you to put your life and future osteo-arthritic health at risk? Or for some guy to lose 30-50 lbs if they really want to jump? I am pretty sure the Ski Jumping school will turn them down as well - and not say "Well you know, if you get custom built skis....maybe we can do it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #36 September 4, 2015 tkhayesthere are exceptions to every rule - that is a far cry from making the exception the rule. I have vast experience in training students, paras, quads and elderly. If you want a pet project for little or no return, then sure, jump on the bandwagon and start training 300lb people to skydive. Oh wait - what you meant was it is ok for SOMEONE ELSE to do it.....got it. yes that was extreme sarcasm..... which is easier? For you to put your life and future osteo-arthritic health at risk? Or for some guy to lose 30-50 lbs if they really want to jump? I am pretty sure the Ski Jumping school will turn them down as well - and not say "Well you know, if you get custom built skis....maybe we can do it." So we can put you down for the you do not want to be bothered by large people on your DZ... got it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #37 September 4, 2015 You missed the part where I said I had extensive experience with paras quads and large people, I got that experience by actually working with them Stop being so antagonistic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #38 September 4, 2015 tkhayesYou missed the part where I said I had extensive experience with paras quads and large people, I got that experience by actually working with them Stop being so antagonistic I am just surprised that a DZO would be quite so dismissive of potential business. But there are certainly a growing number of DZ's that chase the fast easy dollar with the statistically "normal" but outliers need not show up. Too tall.. with the wrong BMI for the sport In Group-Out group dynamics....love it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #39 September 4, 2015 Why spend $$$ and extra risk to accommodate these people when there is a 90% chance that the guy won't return after his first jump??? Most people do their one jump and that is it.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #40 September 4, 2015 stayhighWhy spend $$$ and extra risk to accommodate these people when there is a 90% chance that the guy won't return after his first jump??? Most people do their one jump and that is it. I believe the premise was "the guy"... one of "those people" was willing to invest in his own gear. From the OP Quotei was called the other day by a guy who is 285 lbs. he wants to learn how to skydive. he would even buy his own gear to make it happen. my first thought is to tell him no, but i wanted to hear from the peanut gallery... suggestions? I say if he is proportional height to that weight..... and can do PLF's and has his own gear... help the man fly Life itself is risky.. and none of us are getting out of it alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #41 September 4, 2015 tkhayeswhether or not they are willing to buy their own gear or not, the challenges are massive and many unforeseen. Just loading the airplane and getting this person in and out. The gear will be so limited that it may not even be acceptable 'student equipment'. The gear, like the student, will be on the outer fringes of normal. I'd say no. We have a weight limit of 220 lbs, ~230 if the student is exceptionally fit. Our regular gear simply isn't TSO'd for an exit weight of over 300 lbs. Like TK said, suitable gear will be rare and perhaps even only marginally suitable. Besides, who is going to do all the necessary research into the quagmire of rules, TSOs, custom-fit harness, tensile strengths, possibly even custom made hardware etc? It's a hell of an investment to ask a volunteer to make in this single student, who may or may not decide to hang around the sport for more than even a few jumps. I freely admit to being unwilling to make this kind of commitment (in my spare time no less) - and I sure as hell wouldn't trust it solely to the student."That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 126 #42 September 4, 2015 QuoteI am just surprised that a DZO would be quite so dismissive of potential business. sure because it is all about money and only money. ONCE AGAIN....you forget that I have vast experience in the business and can recognize potential and non-potential. I never said it could not be done, I said it was difficult and a lot of work for often little reward. Not everyone can skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruelpops 0 #43 September 4, 2015 Don't forget the GoPro. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #44 September 4, 2015 going back to the OP, is he going to buy a Micro Sigma with a small drogue?? does he know that complete Micro Sigma will cost $10,000 dollars? it might be easier for him to buy $5000 dollar worth of Coke or Meth and lose the weight and use that other 5000 for his AFF.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tisket 0 #45 September 4, 2015 I'm kinda in with this mindset. If nothing else, find out his actual build and consider putting him through ground school with heavy PLF emphasis (throw him in a tandem rig if you have to). If nothing else, send him to a tunnel. He can learn many of the basics, especially stability, and will also learn about his fall rate. If he's a jabba, the tunnel will give him an idea of the level of fitness he'll need. If he's a brick shithouse, it can show him the flexibility he'll need (some muscleheads can't reach the BOC and he can do practice pulls in the tunnel). Either way, as long as he signs the waiver... If you can't convince them, keep them confused. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #46 September 4, 2015 smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #47 September 4, 2015 People are changing. Once upon a time 254 lb's seemed like a reasonable maximum. Who would ever need to load some thing higher then that? People have physically become larger since then. 6 ft. isn't exactly a giant any more. It's not even uncommon. And people are fat. Just down right fat. Even the average person caries more body fat then they did 50 years ago. It's not a small percentage of people that we are turning away. And I'm not always talking about obese asthmatics that couldn't even climb into the plane. Some of them are just over the 220 or 230 or what ever your cut off is. Maybe it's time to look at heavier gear. Right now PD has reserves rated up to 300 lb's. We could build equipment for big people. A vector with a large PD opens up options for larger jumpers with out resorting to the extremes of a tandem rig or some outrageously expensive. And if we wanted to go higher we could build even stronger designs. It wouldn't be that much harder to manufacture. And their is no reason for it to be drastically more expensive. I can show you how to build a stronger harness that will not break. With relatively minor changes to a couple of joints you could easily build a harness for... well any one that could possible fit out the door of the plane. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #48 September 4, 2015 are you gonna go on main side or reserve side with a 285? I'm definitely gonna go outside video and film the history being written.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nolhtairt 0 #49 September 4, 2015 stayhigh are you gonna go on main side or reserve side with a 285? I'm definitely gonna go outside video and film the history being written. Leave the camera suit on the ground if you do. You won't be needing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #50 September 4, 2015 Amazon***You missed the part where I said I had extensive experience with paras quads and large people, I got that experience by actually working with them Stop being so antagonistic I am just surprised that a DZO would be quite so dismissive of potential business. But there are certainly a growing number of DZ's that chase the fast easy dollar with the statistically "normal" but outliers need not show up. Too tall.. with the wrong BMI for the sport In Group-Out group dynamics....love it. I guess you don't know TK very well. TK is an excellent DZO and very smart business man. My guess is that he just knows what business he's in. In any business it's not wise to try to be all things to all people and in today's business climate it's often better to identify and target a specific segment of the potential customer base. All businesses have a finite amount of resources and must maximize profit while staying within resource limits. In much the same way a company stops making a product because the required resources don't justify the monetary return or a retailer stops carrying a product because the sales don't justify the required shelf space, a smart DZO must decide who will get the DZ's resources and who won't. You may call that being selfish, but I see it another way. A drop zone that makes a healthy profit can afford to donate jumps to wounded warriors, give away jump certificates to local charities for fundraising purposes, and on and on. A drop zone that is on the financial edge can not. It reminds me of a very wealthy friend of mine, who when asked about his fortune has a simple answer - "the more I have the more good I can do". TK runs one of the most successful DZ's in the country for a reason. He understands who is customer is and who his customer isn't. That's just smart business.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
