winsor 186 #1 Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) An interesting article suggests we are not the first to go down this path: https://getpocket.com/explore/item/lessons-in-the-decline-of-democracy-from-the-ruined-roman-republic?utm_source=pocket-newtab Of course, This Time It's Different (tm). BSBD, Winsor Edited August 6, 2021 by winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #2 August 6, 2021 I saw that. I can see the parallels. One can hope for a slower decline. I do wonder if the very large size and population contribute. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 910 #3 August 6, 2021 Rome had a little dictator and their senate dealt with him properly. America just got rid of their Caesar in the ballot box. Just too bad the US senate wasn't as vigorous as Rome's. But I digress. Most of the worlds democracies are now turning away from populists and dictators. China, Russia, N. Korea the exceptions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #4 August 14, 2021 On 8/6/2021 at 8:38 AM, Phil1111 said: Rome had a little dictator and their senate dealt with him properly. America just got rid of their Caesar in the ballot box. Just too bad the US senate wasn't as vigorous as Rome's. But I digress. Most of the worlds democracies are now turning away from populists and dictators. China, Russia, N. Korea the exceptions. It has been said that Americans have the historical awareness of a goldfish. Given what passes as 'History' in the U.S. educational system, that's hardly surprising. Your observation of what direction the world's 'democracies' are going is interesting. It does not agree with what I've seen. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 910 #5 August 14, 2021 41 minutes ago, winsor said: ..... Your observation of what direction the world's 'democracies' are going is interesting. It does not agree with what I've seen. BSBD, Winsor So a glass half empty kina guy eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #6 August 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Phil1111 said: So a glass half empty kina guy eh? Twice as big as it needs to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #7 August 18, 2021 On 8/14/2021 at 4:06 AM, winsor said: It has been said that Americans have the historical awareness of a goldfish. Given what passes as 'History' in the U.S. educational system, that's hardly surprising. And given the people who actively work to ban topics in universities they are uncomfortable with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faicon9493 114 #8 August 18, 2021 History doesn't matter? It seems like people get into trouble because they didn't heed the lessons of history. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #9 August 19, 2021 5 hours ago, Faicon9493 said: History doesn't matter? It seems like people get into trouble because they didn't heed the lessons of history. Yep. A lot of people would like to forget the Holocaust, and slavery in the US, and the Tulsa massacre, and segregation, and Rodney King, and George Floyd. But ignoring history rarely works out, because it has a way of repeating itself when you do that. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #10 August 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, billvon said: Yep. A lot of people would like to forget the Holocaust, and slavery in the US, and the Tulsa massacre, and segregation, and Rodney King, and George Floyd. But ignoring history rarely works out, because it has a way of repeating itself when you do that. Hi Bill, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana - Wikipedia Jerry Baumchen "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."--George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905. From the series Great Ideas of Western Man. | Smithsonian American Art Museum (si.edu) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #11 August 19, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, billvon said: Yep. A lot of people would like to forget the Holocaust, and slavery in the US, and the Tulsa massacre, and segregation, and Rodney King, and George Floyd. But ignoring history rarely works out, because it has a way of repeating itself when you do that. Thanks for reminding us about racism, I can't believe I forgot about racism. This is appalling when you consider that everything, ever, is All About Racism! Nice catch, Winsor Edited August 19, 2021 by winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faicon9493 114 #12 August 19, 2021 3 hours ago, winsor said: Thanks for reminding us about racism, I can't believe I forgot about racism. This is appalling when you consider that everything, ever, is All About Racism! Nice catch, Winsor This is old but still accurate. https://youtu.be/4yrg7vV4a5o Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #13 August 19, 2021 40 minutes ago, Faicon9493 said: This is old but still accurate. https://youtu.be/4yrg7vV4a5o The video has some merit - in a very simplistic way. I am reminded of Jimmy Carter scolding South Africa for their treatment of the black populus. Pik Botha responded by saying that they considered following the example set by the United States in its treatment of indigenous peoples, but they couldn't bring themselves to kill so many people. For all the indignities foisted upon Black Americans, the worst are from other Black Americans. Getting shot by the Police is bad news, but the likelihood of being shot by other Blacks is MUCH higher than by Police. Similarly, getting robbed or raped is largely by other Blacks. When pulled over, Rodney King's passengers followed procedure emerged unscathed. Rodney, after a high speed chase that got the cops' adrenaline pumping, kept ignoring direction even after being tased and they beat the living fuck out of him. If he had said 'yessir, no sir, I didn't know you were behind me...' he would not likely have got the thumping. George Floyd came up against a cop with whom he worked, who for some reason viewed him as a drug-addled deadbeat lowlife and greatly disliked him, and who took it upon himself to kneel on his neck. Though I'm not sure the world would be a better place with George Floyd still among us, the cop's actions displayed depraved indifference, and he is justifiably in prison. Michael Brown had just committed a strongarm robbery, and chose to physically attack an armed LEO. I'm sure there are people who would be happy if Michael had been able to get control of the firearm and shoot the officer, and he would have had a Dream Team defense in that case, the cop managed to end the attack with lethal force before he could do so. The idea that a white individual of similar dimensions similarly attacking a LEO would get a pass is ludicrous. Then again, it's All About Race - EVERYTHING is. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #14 August 19, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, winsor said: When pulled over, Rodney King's passengers followed procedure emerged unscathed. Rodney, after a high speed chase that got the cops' adrenaline pumping, kept ignoring direction even after being tased and they beat the living fuck out of him. If he had said 'yessir, no sir, I didn't know you were behind me...' he would not likely have got the thumping. Ah yes, the if the good blackie just did what he was told he would be fine defense. 1 hour ago, winsor said: The idea that a white individual of similar dimensions similarly attacking a LEO would get a pass is ludicrous. January 6th is just one example that shows you are wrong. Edited August 19, 2021 by SkyDekker 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #15 August 19, 2021 1 hour ago, SkyDekker said: Ah yes, the if the good blackie just did what he was told he would be fine defense. January 6th is just one example that shows you are wrong. When you have a bunch of worked up cops that just managed to pull you over, giving them a hard time is not a particularly good career move, regardless of ethnicity. I'm sure the one woman who got shot dead on the 6th self-identified as Black. Again, everything everywhere is all about race, to the exclusion of all else. I get it. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #16 August 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, winsor said: Again, everything everywhere is all about race, to the exclusion of all else. I get it. You are the only person arguing this. 4 minutes ago, winsor said: When you have a bunch of worked up cops that just managed to pull you over, giving them a hard time is not a particularly good career move, regardless of ethnicity. It is not a smart move. But there is more than enough evidence to suggest that the consequence of that behaviour is impacted by race. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #17 August 19, 2021 43 minutes ago, winsor said: Again, everything everywhere is all about race, to the exclusion of all else. I get it. No, you don't. That's your strawman. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #18 August 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, billvon said: No, you don't. That's your strawman. Woke ideology is typified by a complete lack of humor. Thus, much of what is espoused appears to have been lifted verbatim from one comedy routine or another. In any event, if you insist on injecting 'racism' at every possible opportunity, I hold to my observation that things are seen through a lens that focuses on 'racism,' whether real or perceived. Since races aren't identical for a variety of reasons, and sexes are different as well, coming anywhere near either subject risks being subject to the rhetorical cudgels of 'racism' and 'sexism,' and I call bullshit. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #19 August 19, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, winsor said: In any event, if you insist on injecting 'racism' at every possible opportunity, I hold to my observation that things are seen through a lens that focuses on 'racism,' whether real or perceived. You've spoken about almost nothing but racism since you started posting here again. In this case, people talking to you about race in unrelated threads is a result of your obsession, not theirs. Edited August 19, 2021 by jakee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #20 August 19, 2021 5 hours ago, winsor said: In any event, if you insist on injecting 'racism' at every possible opportunity, I hold to my observation that things are seen through a lens that focuses on 'racism,' whether real or perceived. There is only one person here who shouts 'racism!' every time their knee is hit with a hammer - and that's you. No one else thinks "everything everywhere is all about race." 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #21 August 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, billvon said: There is only one person here who shouts 'racism!' every time their knee is hit with a hammer - and that's you. No one else thinks "everything everywhere is all about race." As far as you can tell, I suppose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #22 August 20, 2021 3 hours ago, winsor said: As far as you can tell, I suppose. No, in reality. It's a strawman. You know, like "well, all republicans support the Nazi party." Nice for a sound bite; not really true. Again, the only person claiming that everything is all about race - is you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #23 August 20, 2021 17 hours ago, billvon said: No, in reality. It's a strawman. You know, like "well, all republicans support the Nazi party." Nice for a sound bite; not really true. Again, the only person claiming that everything is all about race - is you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #24 August 20, 2021 "You have a dirty mind!" " What do you mean? You're the one showing me all the dirty pictures!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites