College admissions

[kallend 1,635]

This is an excellent article describing pretty much everything that's wrong with  higher education admissions. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/16/opinion/college-admissions-scandal.html?em_pos=small&emc=edit_ty_20190318&nl=opinion-today&nl_art=2&nlid=89442825emc%3Dedit_ty_20190318&ref=headline&te=1

Having worked in higher ed. for 45 years, I have encountered many students who fit the descriptions in the article.  I just quote a small part:
 

At its worst, it “corrodes the development of core aspects of young people’s ethical character, often fueling their self-interest, compromising their integrity, and depleting their capacity to either know themselves deeply or to authentically articulate their identity,” reads a draft of a new report by the Harvard Graduate School of Education’s Making Caring Common Project, which for the last few years has been a leading advocate for a less calculated and cutthroat process. “Many young people become cynical both about a system that seems unfair and divorced from their interests, and about the adults who created it.”

I was given an exclusive advance copy of the report, which will be published on Monday. Although it was written before the bribery and fraud arrests, it almost seems to have anticipated them. And it articulates the concerns that many of us have long had about the road that kids frequently travel toward the country’s most venerated and selective schools: the plotting of every major and minor step in terms of how it will look on an application; the lavish expenditures, by affluent families, on a veritable pit crew of tutors and trainers and admissions strategists; the gross overselling of accomplishments; the parental micromanaging; the working of any conceivable angle and pulling of any reachable strings.

It makes a particular plea to parents, “who are focusing on the wrong things, with big consequences for their kids,” said Richard Weissbourd, a renowned development psychologist who is the report’s principal author. They’re not encouraging curiosity, empathy, gratitude. “Parents are trying to give their kids ‘everything’ but they’re not giving them what counts,” he told me.

[yoink 321]

Nothing new here. I reported the girl next to me for cheating during finals. She literally brought sheaves of notes into the exam hall with her.

They caught her in the next exam and did nothing because as a foreign student she brought in a LOAD more cash than a local one. She got a 1st. I got a 2:1... 

[kallend 1,635]

Another excellent article on the college admissions bribery, focussing on the crooked parents:
 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/what-college-admissions-scandal-reveals/586468/?te=1&nl=cooking&emc=edit_ck_20190408&te=1&nl=politics&emc=edit_cn_20190408

 

I was particularly fascinated with this bit, which hadn't occurred to me previously:
 

But think about the kinds of jobs that the indicted parents held. Four of them worked in private equity, a fifth in the field of “investments,” others in real-estate development and the most senior management of huge corporations. Together, they have handled billions of dollars’ worth of assets within heavily regulated fields—yet look how easily and how eagerly they allegedly embrace a crooked scheme, as quoted in the court documents.

 

Here is Bill McGlashan, then a senior executive at a global private-equity fund, reacting to Singer’s plan to get his son (who does not play football) admitted to USC via the football team: “That’s just totally hilarious.”

Here is Robert Zangrillo, the founder and CEO of a private investment firm, talking with one of Singer’s employees who is planning to bring up his daughter’s grades by taking online classes in her name: “Just makes [sic] sure it gets done as quickly as possible.”

Here is John B. Wilson, the founder and CEO of a private-equity and real-estate-development firm, on getting his son into USC using a fake record of playing water polo: “Thanks again for making this happen!” And, “What are the options for the payment? Can we make it for consulting or whatever … so that I can pay it from the corporate account?” He can. “Awesome!”

Here is Douglas Hodge, the former CEO of a large investment-management company, learning from Singer that his son will be admitted to USC via a bribery scheme, and that it’s time to send a check: “Fanstatic [sic]!! Will do.”

 

The word entitlement—even in its full, splendid range of meanings—doesn’t begin to cover the attitudes on display. Devin Sloane is the CEO of a Los Angeles company that deals in wastewater management. Through Singer, he allegedly bribed USC to get his son admitted as a water-polo player. But a guidance counselor at his school learned of the scheme and contacted USC—the boy did not play the sport; something was clearly awry. Singer smoothed it over, but the whole incident enraged Sloane: “The more I think about this, it is outrageous! They have no business or legal right considering all the students privacy issues to be calling and challenging/question [my son’s] application,” he wrote to Singer.

[yobnoc 142]

But the damn immigrants are the problem in this country!  Not the rich!  Stop persecuting them for having money and resources to cheat!  You'll just incentivize them to take their money somewhere outside the US and then we won't have our precious peasant jobs and living paycheck to paycheck! 

(Heavy dose of sarcasm)

[ryoder 1,393]

43 minutes ago, yobnoc said:

But the damn immigrants are the problem in this country!  Not the rich!  Stop persecuting them for having money and resources to cheat!  You'll just incentivize them to take their money somewhere outside the US and then we won't have our precious peasant jobs and living paycheck to paycheck! 

(Heavy dose of sarcasm)

And they were creating new jobs for people like Singer!

[brenthutch 388]

54 minutes ago, yobnoc said:

But the damn immigrants are the problem in this country!  Not the rich!  Stop persecuting them for having money and resources to cheat!  You'll just incentivize them to take their money somewhere outside the US and then we won't have our precious peasant jobs and living paycheck to paycheck! 

(Heavy dose of sarcasm)

I think you have put your finger on the problem.  Illegal immigrants and the rich parents in question, just want a better life for their children, laws be damned.  Jeb Bush said it was just an expression of love.  How can you hate love?

[yobnoc 142]

Just now, brenthutch said:

I think you have put your finger on the problem.  Illegal immigrants and the rich parents in question, just want a better life for their children, laws be damned.  Jeb Bush said it was just an expression of love.  How can you hate love?

The difference being the poor and destitute immigrants have zero power or influence.  The 1% throw their money around to solve all their first-world problems.  If you think there's an equivalence between parents who risk their lives to try to deliver their kids from places where they are likely to be faced with the decision to either join a gang or be killed for refusing, and trust-fund babies whose parents flout the system by bribing them into Ivy-League University, then I think I don't have anything else to say to you on the subject.

I sincerely hope you weren't drawing that false equivalence, and that I just missed the...joke?

If you really do believe it all equals out, though, because both are breaking the law; do you think there is a difference between jaywalking and murder?

[yoink 321]

38 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I think you have put your finger on the problem.  Illegal immigrants and the rich parents in question, just want a better life for their children, laws be damned.  Jeb Bush said it was just an expression of love.  How can you hate love?

Its a tough one, isn't it?

Really, how many people here, given the resources and opportunity to help their kids WOULDN'T do as much as possible? That 'as much as possible' changes depending on the person but I doubt there are many who would play completely straight and level. 'You want this school, son? You're on your own. Fuck it up and you're working at McDonalds for the rest of your life...'

 

Taking a full on test for your kid instead of them doing it to help them get into a better school? I totally understand the drive to do it but that's too much. Helping them with a few questions on the test??? I'd probably do that, even though it's cheating.

How about helping them prep for interviews? Something I think not only all parents would do, but are SUPPOSED to do... I don't see too much difference between that and helping with some test questions, quite honestly.

It's not a clean line.

 

 

[brenthutch 388]

You are correct, my response was a bit tongue in cheek.  Good on you for noticing and calling me out.  My larger point was not to illustrate the difference between jaywalking and murder but rather the difference between rich law breaking and poor law breaking.  I believe in the blind application of the rule of law.  When exceptions are made for ones station in life we open the door for ridiculous notions such as affluenza.  We start out with the noble goal of carving out a space for the disadvantaged and end up protecting the wealthy and privileged from justice.

[brenthutch 388]

6 minutes ago, yoink said:

Its a tough one, isn't it?

Really, how many people here, given the resources and opportunity to help their kids WOULDN'T do as much as possible? That 'as much as possible' changes depending on the person but I doubt there are many who would play completely straight and level. 'You want this school, son? You're on your own. Fuck it up and you're working at McDonalds for the rest of your life...'

 

Taking a full on test for your kid instead of them doing it to help them get into a better school? I totally understand the drive to do it but that's too much. Helping them with a few questions on the test??? I'd probably do that, even though it's cheating.

How about helping them prep for interviews? Something I think not only all parents would do, but are SUPPOSED to do... I don't see too much difference between that and helping with some test questions, quite honestly.

It's not a clean line.

 

 

Funny you should mention that.  Let me share with you some of my "white upper middle class privilege".  My dad was the chief of staff of personal for the Army's Depot Systems Command (DESCOM).  After I finished active duty and before I started college, I applied for a bar back position at the officers club at one of the posts my dad was in charge of.  He picked up the phone and made some calls.  He let it be known that under no circumstance was I to be hired because of the potential of the appearance of favoritism.  No worries, I spent the summer as a landscape and construction laborer.  I checked my privilege 33 years ago.

[yoink 321]

 

That’s equally messed up!

 

[BillyVance 34]

13 hours ago, kallend said:

Another excellent article on the college admissions bribery, focussing on the crooked parents:
 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/what-college-admissions-scandal-reveals/586468/?te=1&nl=cooking&emc=edit_ck_20190408&te=1&nl=politics&emc=edit_cn_20190408

 

Looking like most of the parents involved are going to plead guilty, including Felicity Huffman. Hey, if it helps keep them out of prison or get the short end of prison sentences... (shrugs) Must be nice to have money. Disclaimer: sentencing hasn't started yet.

They'll probably get sent to the same club med jail Martha Stewart spent time at.

[SkyDekker 1,133]

12 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I believe in the blind application of the rule of law

It is an easy statement to make, but I think that means something different to each person who says it. I agree that rich people should not get better treatment, but there is no doubt they will be able to afford better lawyers. Few people will advocate for significantly increased funds for public defenders.

As much as I agree with equal treatment under the law, motivation and intent play a big part in sentencing. Stealing a loaf of bread to feed your child is different from stealing millions from tax payers.

[brenthutch 388]

Agreed 

[JerryBaumchen 1,051]

1 hour ago, BillyVance said:

They'll probably get sent to the same club med jail Martha Stewart spent time at.

Hi BV,

Do not think that time spent in a federal 'club med' is a cake walk.  I visited ( for work ) the 'club med' prison in Pennsylvania numerous times; it is still being in prison.  And it is NOT fun & games.

Jerry Baumchen

[SkyDekker 1,133]

2 hours ago, BillyVance said:

Looking like most of the parents involved are going to plead guilty, including Felicity Huffman. Hey, if it helps keep them out of prison or get the short end of prison sentences... (shrugs) Must be nice to have money. Disclaimer: sentencing hasn't started yet.

They'll probably get sent to the same club med jail Martha Stewart spent time at.

Of course you are the same person who complained about the terrible treatment Manafort received.

[airdvr 198]

14 hours ago, yoink said:

It's not a clean line.

Oh man...it is totally a clean line.  Just the thought that it might be alright to help your child cheat on an exam speaks volumes.

My kids were educated at a very upper white class school system.  Building that colleges would love to have.  I think they did a below average job of educating.  If you failed a test the first time you just had to take it again.  I think they were more concerned about the ratings and how many graduates went to college.  Meanwhile in FL...

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/david-whitley/os-ae-florida-teacher-fired-for-giving-zeros-david-whitley-20180925-story.html

Florida teacher says she was fired for giving zeros

[ryoder 1,393]

8 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Meanwhile in FL...

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/david-whitley/os-ae-florida-teacher-fired-for-giving-zeros-david-whitley-20180925-story.html

Florida teacher says she was fired for giving zeros

Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a shit about the rules? Mark it zero!!!

(Sorry. I couldn't resist.)

[BillyVance 34]

13 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a shit about the rules? Mark it zero!!!

(Sorry. I couldn't resist.)

Fired for giving zeros... Man... I wouldn't want my kids going to that school. The ones they go to, are pretty fair. But yes, they WILL give you a zero if you don't turn in a homework assignment, or any other reason that warrants that grade. My older one learned her lesson the hard way. Her school principal is a former US Marine. Oooorah!

[normiss 622]

6 hours ago, ryoder said:

Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a shit about the rules? Mark it zero!!!

(Sorry. I couldn't resist.)

They're calling the cops, man.

[yoink 321]

9 hours ago, airdvr said:

Oh man...it is totally a clean line.  Just the thought that it might be alright to help your child cheat on an exam speaks volumes.

No it doesn't.

It means that I'd be willing to bend the rules a LITTLE in that particular situation. That's all it says. I know that because, well, that's what I said.

You're free to criticize me for what I wrote and hold a different opinion. I expect it when I put something like that out there. But don't you fucking DARE extrapolate 'volumes' from it. 

 

Like I said, I see very a lot of grey in those areas. I wouldn't directly answer a question on a test for my son, but if he was struggling I'd certainly point him in the right direction. You're saying you wouldn't. I'd help my kid prepare for an admissions interview, helping him predict questions and prepare good answers. You're saying you wouldn't. Fair enough - There are a lot of folk out there who would think that you're being a lousy dad if you did that... Straight. By the book. But a shit dad.

Like I said - 'grey'.