bad 13th jump

[wildman2231 0]

Well, did jumps 12 and 13 last Sunday. My first 2 off
of student status. Winds were 11 to18 with gusts to
around20-22. Jump 12 went fine with a half series
and a ground speed of -2 jumping a wings ss 245.
landed out a couple hundred yrds. I'm thinking, good exp. flying and landing backwards basically.
Then I go up for jump 13. All goes well except for
the 360* track :/. Then as I go to pull I get really
dumb. I arch my spine to the right pulling my hip
towards my hand as I reach to pull.
Like I said,really dumb! I start to slowly roll to the
right and hurriedly snatch the pilot chute and release it. It immediatly flies left behind me as I roll to the right pulling the bridle under the container and faster
than I can say OH S**T I'm head down watching the lines run out down the back of my left leg.
Immediatly the riser catches under the edge of my left armpit as I extend my arm to try to avoid getting
it tangled. As the chute opens there is a loud Snap,
and I do a back flip through the risers. Whew!
I wiggle my fingers and everything works but my left shoulder is REALLY sore. I landed in the dz ok,
but I'm really pissed at myself for going unstable
right at deployment.
I'm posting this here because I'm really lucky that I
wasn't seriously hurt and learned a valuable lesson.
It was MY FAULT! I was deploying at 4500'.
I should have arched a little harder and kept my back straight. I had plenty of time to correct but
didn't. Sooo,the second entry in my new logbook
says I will be stable at pull 17 times, because I
ran out of room. Bet I'm a stable pullin mofo from
now on! My shoulder is a splendid purple! Be safe,
Blue skies...

I'm fine...crazy people don't know they're crazy...No,Really!

[DeNReN 0]

Fellow newb here
dont beat yourself up ..we all make mistakes and learn from them....I flipped through my lines on deployment one jump and ended up with a D bag in front of my face that needed to be cleared....ouchy

One piece of advice I will give...as it was screamed at me before...NEVER sacrifice altitude to deploy stable....when its time to pull....PULL.

I am not a instructor!!!...always ask your instructors about what you should do!!!!

[ladydyver 0]

Well......at least you pulled and wern't hurt seriously. I am a fellow newbie and understand how you kick yourself in the arse when things don't go the way that you want them to.

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[wildman2231 0]

Thanks guys, An experienced jumper did follow me out to observe my jump and saw it happen. He was very polite and helpful, as well as wide eyed
I also shared the experience with an instructor or two. One emphasized stable deployment,the other said as I was very altitude aware I could have corrected and my biggest mistake was rushing the deployment,which resulted in the nasty flip. Anyhow,
I'm really lucky not to have broken my arm or dislocated my shoulder. Some advice I have also taken is to lay belly on floor,feet on couch, balancing a tennis ball on the small of my back and reaching for it. if you don't stay straight it rolls off. I will certainly be doing prcp's at home and in the air!
Blue skies!

I'm fine...crazy people don't know they're crazy...No,Really!

[Reginald 0]

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Winds were 11 to18 with gusts to
around20-22.

So as a good student I'm sure you've read the SIM; what does it say your wind limits are?

Quote

landed out a couple hundred yrds. I'm thinking, good exp. flying and landing backwards basically.

You are lucky you didn't end your jumping for the next 6 months.

Quote

Then as I go to pull I get really
dumb. I arch my spine to the right pulling my hip
towards my hand as I reach to pull.
Like I said,really dumb! I start to slowly roll to the
right and hurriedly snatch the pilot chute and release it. ... It was MY FAULT! I was deploying at 4500'.
... I had plenty of time to correct but
didn't.

Well being stable at pull time is important, but at your experience level even if you are unstable you should pull at your assigned altitude. Don't spend the rest of your life trying to get stable...

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[wildman2231 0]

Yes, I actually did wait and watch a load from the ground,all experienced jumpers with canopys with better penetration. And the wind died down, so up I went again. And in hindsight at 1000' per 4 seconds,I could have used 500' safely. And had good separation and eye contact with the closest jumper (my experienced observer). Thats the hardest part you see? I know exactly what I did
Funny thing is it happened in about 1.5 seconds
but in my mind it replays in slooow motion

I'm fine...crazy people don't know they're crazy...No,Really!

[ChrisL 2]

If you were going backwards on jump 12, why did jump 13 happen at all?

Sounds like staying on the ground would have been the wiser choice.

__

My mighty steed

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

...Some advice I have also taken is to lay belly on floor,feet on couch, balancing a tennis ball on the small of my back and reaching for it. if you don't stay straight it rolls off....

Now here's a good idea that is helpful.
Instructors, take note if you haven't already.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[wildman2231 0]

Yea, I had pretty much zero penetration,but did use forward risers to get a little, my ground speed was right at zero or minus 1 or 2 mph. Next time I will sit it out and take the opportunity to learn packing.
P.S. I collect swords and will never run for office. And if I see strange women lying near ponds, I'll be landing out on purpose!
Blue skies...

I'm fine...crazy people don't know they're crazy...No,Really!

[bch7773 0]

it looks like your instructor really emphasized "stability at pulltime"

but remember, "Pulling at pulltime" is 10 TIMES MORE IMPORTANT then stability. remember your pull priorities

and of course, being stable as you pull at pulltime the best you can do.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[AFFI 0]

Quote

Winds were 11 to18 with gusts to
around20-22.

So as a good student I'm sure you've read the SIM; what does it say your wind limits are?

This is a great point, I think perhaps it is the primary lesson. Getting on the first load was a questionable decision due to the wind conditions, but then to get on another load with no penetration due to winds on the prior jump was a downright poor decision.

Section 2 Page 7 of the USPA SIM clearly states the wind conditions for students and non-licensed skydivers.

F. WINDS
Maximum ground winds
1. For all solo students
a. 14 mph for ram-air canopies
b. 10 mph for round reserves
2. For licensed skydivers are unlimited


The issues at deployment time should have not even been an issue that had taken place had the guidelines in the SIM been adhered to.

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[Reginald 0]

Quote

F. WINDS
Maximum ground winds
1. For all solo students
a. 14 mph for ram-air canopies
b. 10 mph for round reserves

And just to emphasize that mean the high gust not the lull between gusts or an average over time.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[stratostar 5]

Quote

had the guidelines in the SIM been adhered to.

Non USPA DZ, they don't have to adhere to the SIMS.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Reginald 0]

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Quote

had the guidelines in the SIM been adhered to.

Non USPA DZ, they don't have to adhere to the SIMS.

~

Then adhering to some common sense might be a good plan.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[stratostar 5]

Quote

Then adhering to some common sense might be a good plan

I would agree, however you can't blame a newbie for their lack of common sense if they haven't been provided the right info to make a well informed judgement call, and you have others who say "you be ok, get on the load".

Remember we're talking about someone who has 13 jumps, and he still has to trust in the others around him to help make a judgement call.

So it would seem to me the "instructors/dzo" let this person(without an A lic.) (it takes 25 jumps min.) carry on getting on the load in those conditions.

So who is more to blame? this STUDENT for being stupid, twice, or the people who let him manifest twice? (in those conditions)

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[AFFI 0]

You are totally correct Stratostar.

Not really a blame game but we can try to illustrate, in retrospect, the learning of better judgement.

When I think back to when I was new to the sport and did not yet have the experience to make good safety calls on my own I would often times, no, always get on the plane, even when I was given the suggestion to sit one out. There were many times when I would go to work Monday morning sporting injuries that would have been totally avoided had I had the maturity to make better judgement calls for myself but gosh darnet, I needed to get on every load I could and did not consider the potential ramifications of jumping in conditions I was not ready for.

So it is hard to play the role I do now sometimes, because I know that I was a reckless as they come but maybe it will help someone else come to realizations quicker than I did.

Know what I am saying? Not trying to be an asshole for the sake of just giving someone a hard time - Maybe I dont always go about it the best way but I really do care...

[wildman2231 0]

Let me clarify this for you. I WAS advised that I probably should not jump. MY poor decision. I WAS aware of everything that I did. The 18 to 20 mph
winds were at 9k and up. 11 to 15 with small gusts at ground level. I WAS given exemplary instruction. And I WAS the one that made MY mistake. I posted for others to learn from it. Hopefully not like I did. I'm sure no else ever landed out in the 1000 acres of soybeans before,and 2 football fields from the target. THE POINT WAS that it was drilled into me to be stable at pull. The mistake was at pull time. I made the DZ fine and havn't not had a stand up landing yet. Walking downstairs isnt as soft as that Rig sets me down. I expect to get flamed here,but was posting for educative purposes,and to relate my experiences. By the way, I liked the posts about the dumbest things jumpers have ever done. Care to share your's? Also a rookie is a rookie for a FULL YEAR
Be nice,Thanks, Blues...

I'm fine...crazy people don't know they're crazy...No,Really!

[stratostar 5]

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Care to share your's?

Sure, didn't heed the good advice to NOT get out in front of a wall (T-storm) cloud when I was a young jumper.
Landed fine, but going backwards fast as hell, not much fun being under canopy with lightning and thunder and rain.
That good enough for ya.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[stratostar 5]

Quote

Know what I am saying?

Sure do.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[wildman2231 0]

LOL, Yea man! That sounds way wicked!
Thanks for sharing!
There's no such thing as to much information,thank you guys. Practically everyone is my mentor in this sport to me. The learning curve here is dam near vertical and I can't seem to get enough. Thanks again...Blues...

I'm fine...crazy people don't know they're crazy...No,Really!

[stratostar 5]

You forgot the part about, and really stupid of me to get out.

But I did follow a more experianced jumper on that dive, who asked me if I wanted to get out, while others were saying NO WAY.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[ladydyver 0]

Sometimes being a rookie means being a rookie longer than a year. Experience comes with time...as new jumpers (including me), sometimes it is difficult to maintain patience. I know that I want to get more experienced so bad I can taste it....and dream about it nightly. I really listen to those around me...and really try to hear what they are saying. Even if that means pulling on the reigns a bit.

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[PhreeZone 15]

Ahh.. Beauty of the internet is almost anything is cached.

Here are the wind conditions for a location only 5 miles away for the day in question.
http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KOHXENIA1&month=7&day=2&year=2006

Wind speed was under 10 mph for the entire day. I remember a few surges to probally 12-14 but nothing horrible.

Uppers were hauling, but surface winds were well within the USPA guidelines. If we only conducted jumps when winds from 13000 to the ground were less then 14 mph I might was well sell my gear since it would'nt happen.

I love how everyone complained about the DZ when conditions were fine and within the standerds that the USPA wrote, but yet they can't do anything right since they are not USPA

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mdrejhon 8]

Not as bad but as a student, around jump 10, I accidentally went into a slight belly spin that I did not stop before pulling. Went into one linetwist when I pulled at exactly my pull altitude. (I easily kicked out of it) I was more worried about pulling on time. It takes under a second second to correct a slow belly spin, but I was too newbie at the time...

[dorbie 0]

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I love how everyone complained about the DZ when conditions were fine and within the standerds that the USPA wrote, but yet they can't do anything right since they are not USPA

My first DZ was USPA and had a wind waiver for students. Why? Probably because it was a windy DZ. Of course they exercised good judgement and caution at all times, I was still grounded above 14 at times and they nudged the limit up as experience or conditions changed. Even USPA DZs have student wind limit waivers so the high horse should probably remain in the stable on this one.