Perfect American President

[SkyDekker 1,147]

All I keep reading about is how Clinton and Trump are very poor presidential candidates. This got me wondering what people think would be the perfect presidential candidate. What attributes do you want to see?

No Mistakes?
Political experience?
Business Experience?
Military service?
100% Honest and how does one judge this?

I am not talking about policy or political parties, but everything around it.

Discuss.

[DanG 1]

I think integrity is important. Lack of real (as opposed to manufactured) scandals is probably the best measure of that. Consistency in doing what one says and saying what one does is also important.

Being able to work well with everyone across the political spectrum.

Policy experience, not necessarily political experience.

Foreign experience. Someone who has traveled, learned another language, has a less parochial view of the world.

Military service can be a plus, but I wouldn't want a career military officer who hasn't done anything else.

I also want my President to be the smartest person in the room, but be able to take advice from other people.

- Dan G

[RonD1120 58]

Well stated.

DanG

I think integrity is important. Lack of real (as opposed to manufactured) scandals is probably the best measure of that. Consistency in doing what one says and saying what one does is also important.

Trump comes close.

Being able to work well with everyone across the political spectrum.

Trump comes close.

Policy experience, not necessarily political experience.

Trump comes close.

Foreign experience. Someone who has traveled, learned another language, has a less parochial view of the world.

Trump maybe close.


Military service can be a plus, but I wouldn't want a career military officer who hasn't done anything else.

Trump not so close.


I also want my President to be the smartest person in the room, but be able to take advice from other people.

Trump comes close.

Just my opinion of course.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 1,651]

RonD1120

Well stated.

***I think integrity is important. Lack of real (as opposed to manufactured) scandals is probably the best measure of that. Consistency in doing what one says and saying what one does is also important.

Trump comes close.



Just my opinion of course.

Ha bloody ha!

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/09/05/trumps-history-of-corruption-is-mind-boggling-so-why-is-clinton-supposedly-the-corrupt-one/?utm_term=.b09a92302c2e&wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DanG 1]

As you might suspect, I strongly disagree with your assessment of Trump. He has no integrity. This has been shown time and again. He can't work with anyone, because as soon as someone disagrees with him, he lashes out. He has some foreign experience as a businessman, I'll grant you that. He has absolutely no policy experience, not sure how you can seriously claim otherwise. He is far from the smartest person in the room. Loudest, most bombastic, biggest bully, sure. Smartest? Hardly.

Clinton, on the other hand, has some of the qualities I listed, but has definite problems in others. Integrity is a problem. I don't think it is as big a problem as some make it out to be, but she's had some issues. I think she has shown she can work across the aisle based on her time in the Senate. She has tons of policy experience. She has tons of foreign experience. She has no military experience, like Trump. I think she is quite intelligent. I'm not sure how well she takes advice from others, but she certainly doesn't throw a Twitter tantrum when someone disagrees with her.

- Dan G

[quade 3]

I think the closest we've ever come to a vision of as close as we could ever expect of a President was Bartlett.

Even Bartlett had flaws. We all do. I don't think we can realistically expect a President to be "perfect."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jakee 1,260]

quade

I think the closest we've ever come to a vision of as close as we could ever expect of a President was Bartlett.

Bartlett (at least in the later series) was a control freak megalomaniac micromanager of the worst kind.

He would have been a terrible president in the real world.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[winsor 187]

My vote would be for Pat Paulsen.

[quade 3]

jakee

***I think the closest we've ever come to a vision of as close as we could ever expect of a President was Bartlett.

Bartlett (at least in the later series) was a control freak megalomaniac micromanager of the worst kind.

He would have been a terrible president in the real world.

I'm not sure that's true, at least the characterizations you've made. I saw no desire to takeover the world nor run its smallest and most trivial details. From what I saw he specifically left the details up to his staff and, while he did engage in some regime changing issues (notably the assassination of a despot) I think over all he was fairly measured.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jakee 1,260]

Quote

I saw no desire to takeover the world nor run its smallest and most trivial details.

Remember when the power plant went into meltdown? He took personal control over the smallest details of the emergency operation right down to how long individual firefighters (or whoever they were) were inside the radiation zones despite not having any knowledge of or training regarding the operations of perfectly fucntional nuclear reactors, let alone ones that are in the process of exploding. That's far from the only example but it is the most obvious.

Megalomaniac was the wrong word, but control freak micromanager he certainly was.

Frankly, I blame the West Wing (at least in part) for the current cult of the President as leader and controller of every aspect of the nation's performance.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DanG 1]

You guys realize you're talking about a TV show, right?

- Dan G

[quade 3]

DanG

You guys realize you're talking about a TV show, right?

Right! Exactly! It was an idealized version of a President.

Most people want nothing less and are in search of some magical, perfect, dream President that could never exist in real life.

Discussing that using an example from a television program is 100% relevant.

Think about it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jakee 1,260]

DanG

You guys realize you're talking about a TV show, right?

Fictional TV shows arguably have a bigger impact on how people view things than the news does.

Just like when Bush made policy decisions that were apparently influenced by having watched too much "24", The West Wing certainly propogated ideas that pop up a lot around here like the President being solely responsible for the strength of the currency, or the deficit, or the performance of the economy, or foreign relations, or a whole host of things that are actually jointly influenced by Executive and Legislative.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[quade 3]

I would also argue the fictional President Bartlett is probably more well known and less demonized than any real life President. He can be discussed on purely academic terms as opposed to the left vs right bias most people are going to have regarding any of the actual Presidents.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[BIGUN 1,076]

Courage
Candor
Commitment
Collaborative
Communicative - the ability to talk with people and not at them.
Accessible
One who can make this country great again for altruistic reasons by having a sincere desire to hold the office in humility of the people, by the people and for the people.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[quade 3]

SIDE BAR --

Whenever I see a list and it is a list of exactly -10- items (or -7-), or all the words start with the same letter, or the first letters create a acronym . . . I begin to wonder about it.

This is not a knock on you. Not at all. I'm sure you've come across a piece of that list in your travels (we could google for instance "the four Cs of leadership") and you've carried it around in your head and just modified bits of it. So, again, no knock on you personally.

Actually, this probably says more about me since at one point in my life I worked for a company which had its own "Four Cs" some of which turned out to be demonstrably bullshit.

I just wonder how many people carry stuff like that in their heads (because it was easy to remember) and then never question it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[RonD1120 58]

DanG

As you might suspect, I strongly disagree with your assessment of Trump. He has no integrity. This has been shown time and again. He can't work with anyone, because as soon as someone disagrees with him, he lashes out. He has some foreign experience as a businessman, I'll grant you that. He has absolutely no policy experience, not sure how you can seriously claim otherwise. He is far from the smartest person in the room. Loudest, most bombastic, biggest bully, sure. Smartest? Hardly.

Clinton, on the other hand, has some of the qualities I listed, but has definite problems in others. Integrity is a problem. I don't think it is as big a problem as some make it out to be, but she's had some issues. I think she has shown she can work across the aisle based on her time in the Senate. She has tons of policy experience. She has tons of foreign experience. She has no military experience, like Trump. I think she is quite intelligent. I'm not sure how well she takes advice from others, but she certainly doesn't throw a Twitter tantrum when someone disagrees with her.

I have been intrigued with both the Clintons and Trump since the early '90s and have followed their public appearances and the stories about them with some interest. I am going with Trump. Just consider me part of that vast right wing conspiracy.

Over the years Trump has been ridiculed for being flamboyantly rich. The Clintons have been in one scandal after another.

America deserves HRC but I hope and pray God grants us some measure of His mercy and gives us Trump.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,435]

Quote

Whenever I see a list and it is a list of exactly -10- items (or -7-), or all the words start with the same letter, or the first letters create a acronym . . . I begin to wonder about it.

A company we work with evaluates every new project by the five P's:

Price
Performance
PWB area
Power
Schedule

(the last one has a silent P)

[jakee 1,260]

Quote

America deserves HRC but I hope and pray God grants us some measure of His mercy and gives us Trump.

Like a mercy killing, then?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

Quote

America deserves HRC but I hope and pray God grants us some measure of His mercy and gives us Trump.

Like a mercy killing, then?

kind of - but according to the news - she is sick and will die anyway - so need to put her out of her misery.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[BIGUN 1,076]

quade

SIDE BAR --

Whenever I see a list and it is a list of exactly -10- items (or -7-), or all the words start with the same letter, or the first letters create a acronym . . . I begin to wonder about it.

This is not a knock on you. Not at all. I'm sure you've come across a piece of that list in your travels (we could google for instance "the four Cs of leadership") and you've carried it around in your head and just modified bits of it. So, again, no knock on you personally.

Actually, this probably says more about me since at one point in my life I worked for a company which had its own "Four Cs" some of which turned out to be demonstrably bullshit.

I just wonder how many people carry stuff like that in their heads (because it was easy to remember) and then never question it.

And, you would be correct. Don't consider it a knock at all. I taught Managerial Science in Grad school. The first three (Courage, Candor, Commitment) became very important to me because during the Trait Phase of Leadership studies around 1900 and all the studies I had to read... there were literally hundreds of combinations of traits and characteristics qualitatively measured. The Trait Phase had made no progress by the time the Human Relations Theory of Management became the golden child after the Hawthorne Studies.

With the exception of Courage, Candor and Commitment. All academia did agree on those three traits. I was a fan of Bill Clinton. Not a voter; but none the less a fan. I remember the day he was on live television and was asked the question, "Did you have sexual relations with that girl?" I was mentally shouting at the television... Tell them - "For the record. My personal life is none of your business." In that one moment, he could have summed up both courage and candor. So again, for those three; you are correct.

With regard to Collaboration, Communication and Accessibility. Well, those are my own when I thought about the question. I would like a President who can collaborate with both sides of the aisle to make this country great again. Where one's label of Democrat or Republican does not mean that one has to believe in all the divisive issues to be a part of that party.

S/he must be able to communicate - both verbally and non-verbally. Speak from the not heart; not what some speechwriter wrote and gets regurgitated over a teleprompter... For me, it's OK to make the occasional blunder of gaffe. Shows me you're human. And, when you apologize - you're not persecuted by the media,

The ones who should have access are not the lobbyists. But, the people. Everyone keeps promising town hall meetings, but then they forget taht promise instead of demanding to their staff that once a month - we will be in another city - listening to the people.

That's what I'm looking for. Some part of me thinks that's what we are all looking for. Perhaps Bartlett is our man.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[SkyDekker 1,147]

Quote

make this country great again

I hear this used a lot, but what does that mean? When was the country great and what are the measurement criteria?

[BIGUN 1,076]

SkyDekker

Quote

make this country great again

I hear this used a lot, but what does that mean? When was the country great and what are the measurement criteria?

Great impersonation of Jeff Daniels playing Will McAvoy.

Nice try on the set up, but I'm not the sorority girl.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[DanG 1]

It's a valid question. What is not great about America that used to be great?

- Dan G

[theplummeter 14]

If you're going to pray for something, make it something better than a "show of mercy" that results in an empty suit and combover taking such a high office.

Better yet, get off your knees and do something nice for someone.