More mass shootings

[rushmc 18]

Phil1111

*********
when you chose to start from the false premise of rampant gun violence there can be no dialog.

The premise is not false.

No other civilized country is plagued bygun violence like America.

Look, I am willing to listen to any idea.
Got any that would have stopped the shooting this weekend?

Why do you insist upon teasing everyone who reads your posts.

You see
you do not have any ideas either.

Perfect example I why I waste little time on those like you......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Phil1111 933]

rushmc

************
when you chose to start from the false premise of rampant gun violence there can be no dialog.

The premise is not false.

No other civilized country is plagued bygun violence like America.

Look, I am willing to listen to any idea.
Got any that would have stopped the shooting this weekend?

Why do you insist upon teasing everyone who reads your posts.

You see
you do not have any ideas either.

Perfect example I why I waste little time on those like you......

You are very kind and considerate, unlike trump. thanks!!

[rushmc 18]

Phil1111

***************
when you chose to start from the false premise of rampant gun violence there can be no dialog.

The premise is not false.

No other civilized country is plagued bygun violence like America.

Look, I am willing to listen to any idea.
Got any that would have stopped the shooting this weekend?

Why do you insist upon teasing everyone who reads your posts.

You see
you do not have any ideas either.

Perfect example I why I waste little time on those like you......

You are very kind and considerate, unlike trump. thanks!!

Irony meter explodes!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lawndarter 3]

rushmc

I do not think you can back this up.

No problem, it's not even remotely difficult to.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts

https://globalnews.ca/news/2378037/gun-violence-by-the-numbers-how-america-canada-and-the-world-compare/

rushmc

When you break it all down, most of the murders are gang/drug related. Look at Chicago and other Democratic controlled cities with high murder rates. But you would rather just throw a blanket over all of it to link it together because the argument does not stand up.

Just so you know, these comments still sound stupid to the grownups. Chicago's murder rate's actually not even that high. It's not in the top 30 American cities.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/02/daily-chart-3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

And when we're talking about America's gun carnage, we're also talking about accidental shootings (lethal or not) and suicides. You reduce it to gang violence, but the people actually concerned with the problem don't.

rushmc

Look, I am willing to listen to any idea.

Ha. Sure you are.

rushmc

Got any that would have stopped the shooting this weekend?

Not necessarily, but someone hording guns and ammunition should have been sending up a whole lot of red flags. But it didn't.

Know what definitely didn't help? "More guns" and "good guys with guns", who are of course good guys right up until the moment they aren't.

[billvon 2,465]

>Look, I am willing to listen to any idea.
>Got any that would have stopped the shooting this weekend?

Limits on magazine size and restrictions on automatic-fire devices both would have reduced the death toll.

Acoustic gunfire localizers could have gotten police response far faster than an hour.

(that's three ideas you can ignore and/or disparage.)

[rushmc 18]

I have been to maybe 60 gun sales where one individual owned so many guns the sale takes two to three days. (over the last 15 years)

The guns ranged from $150.00 22LR hand gun and rifles to collector Winchesters.

What many of you do not know is guns are and have been a great investment over the last decades. Rarely do you lose money on a correctly purchased gun.

These same collectors (and many of the sales I go to are retiring farmers who are in their 90's) have high power rifles, AR15's and AR10's.

So the hording guns and ammo rarely need any red flags with them.

But this it he problem with those who fear an object and do not understand gun collecting.

So
As you posted, you do not really have a good idea of what might have stopped what happened last weekend. Good for you for being honest.
The next steps now are to not go off all hell bent with emotion to try and fix something that is not broken.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[gowlerk 1,952]

Quote

Acoustic gunfire localizers could have gotten police response far faster than an hour.

I've now heard two very different stories on the police response. One that the carnage went on for more than an hour. But more recently that it was about 11 minutes.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Lawndarter 3]

rushmc

.
The next steps now are to not go off all hell bent with emotion to try and fix something that is not broken.

Thirty two thousand dead Americans every single year would probably argue that something is severely broken, if they could.

[rushmc 18]

gowlerk

Quote

Acoustic gunfire localizers could have gotten police response far faster than an hour.

I've now heard two very different stories on the police response. One that the carnage went on for more than an hour. But more recently that it was about 11 minutes.

I watched the presser last night.

They were at his room in less than 15 minutes but did not enter for 71 minutes because no shots were being fired and they now considered it a standoff situation and not an active shooter scenario

I believe 11 minutes is correct.

What got them close so fast was a retired military person just below the shooters room and he was calling in credible info. The hotel security man went to that room where the shooter gave himself away by firing rounds through the door and walls hitting the security man in the leg. He stayed with LEO's and helped with evac of the floor (he had a pass card for the rooms)

They think shortly after the shooter fired through the walls he took his own life.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Lawndarter

***.
The next steps now are to not go off all hell bent with emotion to try and fix something that is not broken.

Thirty two thousand dead Americans every single year would probably argue that something is severely broken, if they could.

So
How do you fix it?

Remember
Gun sales records have been broken nearly 9 years in a row now.
and even with that gun murder rates have not climbed.

So it would be hard to say more guns mean more gun murders correct?

So how do YOU fix it knowing that guns will always be part of the culture as protected under the Constitution (which liberals and gun-o-phobes hate)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>Look, I am willing to listen to any idea.
>Got any that would have stopped the shooting this weekend?

Limits on magazine size and restrictions on automatic-fire devices both would have reduced the death toll.

Acoustic gunfire localizers could have gotten police response far faster than an hour.

(that's three ideas you can ignore and/or disparage.)

You need to start with your facts being correct

and you clearly are not

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,672]

rushmc

******
John
Which one of your so called solutions, the ones you list here, would have stopped the shooting this weekend?

The point I think is more that with anything else - trucks running people down, bombings, whatever, we start looking for ways to mitigate the risk of further attacks of the same or similar nature, while with guns, it immediately becomes "don't politicize this" and other nonsense to avoid discussing anything useful.

I am still staggered that Americans are told to accept rampant gun violence as "the price of freedom" while the idea of universal healthcare is somehow just inconceivable.

I feel like the only thing that will change it is those spewing stupidity like "the price of freedom" start paying a whole lot more of that price.

when you chose to start from the false premise of rampant gun violence there can be no dialog.

And once again Marc illustrates that his credibility is zero.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 639]

What got them close was a network connected smoke detector that went off due to the smoke in the room from the weapons discharging.
I wonder who's network system it was?

[billvon 2,465]

>You need to start with your facts being correct

"I am willing to listen to any ideas"
(3 ideas listed)
"You are wrong."

Perfect RushMC.

[billvon 2,465]

>I've now heard two very different stories on the police response. One that the carnage
>went on for more than an hour. But more recently that it was about 11 minutes.

He fired for 11 minutes. The police entered after about an hour.

[kallend 1,672]

billvon

>Look, I am willing to listen to any idea.
>Got any that would have stopped the shooting this weekend?

Limits on magazine size and restrictions on automatic-fire devices both would have reduced the death toll.

Acoustic gunfire localizers could have gotten police response far faster than an hour.

(that's three ideas you can ignore and/or disparage.)

Concentrating on the Vegas shooting is not seeing the forest because a tree is in the way.

Some 9,000+ Americans are murdered with guns every year. Then there are the kids who kill themselves (and others) accidentally after finding an unsecured gun.

If we lost that many people to polio or measles we'd (rightly) call it an epidemic.

No other western nation is remotely close to the USA in gun violence. The USA only looks good in comparison to 3rd world shitholes.

Rushmc (and others of his ilk) are simply in denial that there's a problem.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>I've now heard two very different stories on the police response. One that the carnage
>went on for more than an hour. But more recently that it was about 11 minutes.

He fired for 11 minutes. The police entered after about an hour.

Yes
they were at his room door 15 minutes after it started

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

kallend

***>Look, I am willing to listen to any idea.
>Got any that would have stopped the shooting this weekend?

Limits on magazine size and restrictions on automatic-fire devices both would have reduced the death toll.

Acoustic gunfire localizers could have gotten police response far faster than an hour.

(that's three ideas you can ignore and/or disparage.)

Concentrating on the Vegas shooting is not seeing the forest because a tree is in the way.

Some 9,000+ Americans are murdered with guns every year. Then there are the kids who kill themselves (and others) accidentally after finding an unsecured gun.

If we lost that many people to polio or measles we'd (rightly) call it an epidemic.

No other western nation is remotely close to the USA in gun violence. The USA only looks good in comparison to 3rd world shitholes.

Rushmc (and others of his ilk) are simply in denial that there's a problem.

Problem ?

Yes

but you do not have it identified because of your emotional response to all of this.

the problem is not guns

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[gowlerk 1,952]

Quote

but you do not have it identified because of your emotional response to all of this.

And of course no emotion is involved for the "out of my cold dead hands" people! They are always nothing but calm and rational.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[rushmc 18]

gowlerk

Quote

but you do not have it identified because of your emotional response to all of this.

And of course no emotion is involved for the "out of my cold dead hands" people! They are always nothing but calm and rational.

I am not the one with drool and spittle coming from my mouth blaming the NRA

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,465]

>the problem is not guns

Just for RushMC, an article from The Onion:
===================================
This Shooting Isn’t About Gun Control We Refuse To Pass, It’s About Access To Mental Health Care We’re Continuing To Gut

Paul Ryan

As our nation struggles to come to grips with the horrible tragedy in Las Vegas, it’s only natural for people to search for an explanation of how an atrocity like this could have happened and to call on their elected officials to take measures to prevent such terrible bloodshed from occurring again in the future. Unfortunately, however, we’ve seen enough of these incidents to know that some people will rush to blame firearms for this carnage and will demand that Congress enact sweeping gun restrictions, engaging in misguided efforts that completely miss the underlying reasons behind the violence we’re seeing.

The simple truth is, mass shootings like this aren’t about gun control we refuse to pass. They’re about access to mental health care that we will continue to gut.

You can already hear the calls from the left. In the aftermath of this mass murder, millions of people are once again pushing for an assault weapons ban that I won’t allow lawmakers to give even a moment of consideration, let alone bring to a vote. If these folks actually examined the realities of the issue, they would see that the real culprit in these incidents is, and always has been, our country’s inadequate mental healthcare system that leaves troubled, potentially violent individuals without the support they need, and which my colleagues and I have spent most of our careers seeking, often successfully, to defund.

The reason we have tragedies like this is because of how our healthcare system that I am dead set on undermining fails to serve Americans in desperate need of psychological treatment. Not because of a lack of gun ownership regulations, the slightest toughening of which will never even receive a single second of debate on the floor of the House on my watch.

Case in point, I’ve seen commentators cite the GOP bill to loosen restrictions on silencers that is currently making its way through Congress as contributing to an environment where these shootings will continue to occur, an erroneous line of reasoning that completely ignores how our party’s many active attempts to repeal Obamacare would make it significantly harder, if not impossible, for millions of unwell individuals to visit mental health specialists and receive the treatment necessary to keep their erratic behavior in check.

If we as a nation are really serious about preventing future tragedies, we shouldn’t focus on regulating so-called gun sale loopholes and outlawing high-capacity magazines, the very mention of which will elicit an overwhelming and immediate nullifying response should it be breathed on the floor of the House. Instead, we need to pay attention to the fact that many people with treatable mental illnesses struggle to afford medication or therapy, and then work around the clock to ensure that their meager options only dwindle further and become more expensive. That is where we need to be focused as a nation.

If we’re going to get anywhere, we must see this problem for what it truly is: a nationwide mental health crisis that my policies have allowed to metastasize and that I am working continuously to exacerbate. Not some issue of who can and can’t buy guns, all legislation about which I, along with the powerful resources of supportive lobbyists, have suppressed with exceptional efficiency.

Because as easy as it is to blame this unconscionable loss of human life on background check laws designed to maximize the profits of the gun industry at the expense of public safety, the real fault lies with healthcare legislation designed to maximize insurance industry profits at the expense of public safety.

Remember, it’s not guns we’ve deliberately removed all barriers to owning that kill people. It’s people to whom we continually deny basic care that kill people.
=========================

[rushmc 18]

The Onion
Your kind of news

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

I will ask you this same question since no one else will answer

Provide one of two new laws that would have prevented this shooting?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lawndarter 3]

rushmc

I will ask you this same question since no one else will answer

Provide one of two new laws that would have prevented this shooting?

Mandatory licensing with psychological screening as a component, as is common in many countries.

You finished yet?

[mrubin 0]

rushmc

I will ask you this same question since no one else will answer

Provide one of two new laws that would have prevented this shooting?

Only firearms with the technology known prior to December 15, 1791 can be owned by the public.

That would have prevented this shooting. But that is not what the pro gun control crowd is arguing needs to be done. You say that you will listen to ideas but then totally ignore what others are saying. The only way that there can be real improvement is for both sides to stop yelling at each other and work together to find a compromise.

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery