Ramadi... Here we go again

[jclalor 12]

The world was a much better place With Sadam Hussein in it.

This Memeorial day is going to be particularly hard, keeping in mind that we gave 4,000 lives for... ?

[Driver1 0]

jclalor

The world was a much better place With Sadam Hussein in it.

This Memeorial day is going to be particularly hard, keeping in mind that we gave 4,000 lives for... ?

And a leg by one of our own members here.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[Amazon 7]

Driver1

***The world was a much better place With Sadam Hussein in it.

This Memeorial day is going to be particularly hard, keeping in mind that we gave 4,000 lives for... ?

And a leg by one of our own members here.

Wouldn't it be cool if all those families who lost their loved ones, and all those maimed servicemen and women who lost limbs or worse could at least get free gasoline for life from the companies that got so many windfall profits from the destabilization of the oil markets abroad and when a Barrel of oil jumped from $20 to over $100 a barrel from the companies run by SMALL OIL that all of the PNAC members of the last administration orchestrated with their control of thousands of marginal wells in the inter-mountain west??

It looks like all that purported support by the GOP dried up rather quickly and all those patriotic Americans who actually signed up on the dotted line are just another line item budget to slash because its not actually about taking care of the troops or supporting the troops.... Its all about supporting the military INDUSTRIAL complex that IKE warned us about. Its about those congress critters getting nice cushy jobs in defense contractors companies... or cushy consulting gigs or lobbyist positions.

Murica...

[Elisha 1]

Amazon

******The world was a much better place With Sadam Hussein in it.

This Memeorial day is going to be particularly hard, keeping in mind that we gave 4,000 lives for... ?

And a leg by one of our own members here.

Wouldn't it be cool if all those families who lost their loved ones, and all those maimed servicemen and women who lost limbs or worse could at least get free gasoline for life from the companies that got so many windfall profits from the destabilization of the oil markets abroad and when a Barrel of oil jumped from $20 to over $100 a barrel from the companies run by SMALL OIL that all of the PNAC members of the last administration orchestrated with their control of thousands of marginal wells in the inter-mountain west??

It looks like all that purported support by the GOP dried up rather quickly and all those patriotic Americans who actually signed up on the dotted line are just another line item budget to slash because its not actually about taking care of the troops or supporting the troops.... Its all about supporting the military INDUSTRIAL complex that IKE warned us about. Its about those congress critters getting nice cushy jobs in defense contractors companies... or cushy consulting gigs or lobbyist positions.

Murica...

+1 Preach it, woman.

[Darius11 12]

jclalor

The world was a much better place With Sadam Hussein in it.

This Memeorial day is going to be particularly hard, keeping in mind that we gave 4,000 lives for... ?

for the war machine and war ind., Halliburton,and eventually so they will say would you like fries with that? in parts of the world that do not like the western culture.

You want to stop that from happening? don't line up like sheep at the treat of being called a traitor! or because you are ignorant. Do not let nationalism and patriotism be used to make you their sheep.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[turtlespeed 212]

Darius11

***The world was a much better place With Sadam Hussein in it.

This Memeorial day is going to be particularly hard, keeping in mind that we gave 4,000 lives for... ?

for the war machine and war ind., Halliburton,and eventually so they will say would you like fries with that? in parts of the world that do not like the western culture.

You want to stop that from happening? don't line up like sheep at the treat of being called a traitor! or because you are ignorant. Do not let nationalism and patriotism be used to make you their sheep.

I don't believe it is much of a treat to be labeled and persecuted as a traitor. I could be wrong, but, I'm always a bit syndicalism about traitors.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,400]

From 2005:

==========
Our mission in Iraq is clear. We're hunting down the terrorists. We're helping Iraqis build a free nation that is an ally in the war on terror. We're advancing freedom in the broader Middle East. We are removing a source of violence and instability, and laying the foundation of peace for our children and our grandchildren. . . . .

When the Middle East grows in democracy and prosperity and hope, the terrorists will lose their sponsors, lose their recruits, and lose their hopes for turning that region into a base for attacks on America and our allies around the world.

The terrorists know that the outcome will leave them emboldened, or defeated. So they are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to take. . . .

To complete the mission, we will prevent al Qaeda and other foreign terrorists from turning Iraq into what Afghanistan was under the Taliban, a safe haven from which they could launch attacks on America and our friends. And the best way to complete the mission is to help Iraqis build a free nation that can govern itself, sustain itself, and defend itself.
===========

Good thing Iraq is now free of terrorists and able to defend itself.

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

From 2005:

==========
Our mission in Iraq is clear. We're hunting down the terrorists. We're helping Iraqis build a free nation that is an ally in the war on terror. We're advancing freedom in the broader Middle East. We are removing a source of violence and instability, and laying the foundation of peace for our children and our grandchildren. . . . .

When the Middle East grows in democracy and prosperity and hope, the terrorists will lose their sponsors, lose their recruits, and lose their hopes for turning that region into a base for attacks on America and our allies around the world.

The terrorists know that the outcome will leave them emboldened, or defeated. So they are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to take. . . .

To complete the mission, we will prevent al Qaeda and other foreign terrorists from turning Iraq into what Afghanistan was under the Taliban, a safe haven from which they could launch attacks on America and our friends. And the best way to complete the mission is to help Iraqis build a free nation that can govern itself, sustain itself, and defend itself.
===========

Good thing Iraq is now free of terrorists and able to defend itself.

Quote

"On Sept. 20, speaking at the University of Miami, Obama said, “We’ve decimated al Qaeda’s top leadership in the border regions around Pakistan, but in Yemen, in Libya, in other of these places – increasingly in places like Syria – what you see is these elements that don’t have the same capacity that a bin Laden or core al Qaeda had, but can still cause a lot of damage, and we’ve got to make sure that we remain vigilant and are focused on preventing them from doing us any harm.”

On Sept. 21 in Woodbridge, Va. and Sept. 23 in Milwaukee, Obama again said, “al Qaeda is on the path to defeat.”

Off the campaign trail on Sept. 25, Obama spoke to the United Nations General Assembly and said, “Al Qaeda has been weakened, and Osama bin Laden is no more.”

The next day, campaigning in Bowling Green, Ohio, Obama again said, “al Qaeda is on the path to defeat.” That same day at Kent State University, Obama used the same line. Obama said the same thing on Sept. 27 in Virginia Beach, Va.

On Sept. 28 at the Hilton in Washington, Obama said, “We said that we would go after al Qaeda, and they are on the run and bin Laden is dead.”

Obama went back to saying the terrorist organization was on the “path to defeat” on Sept. 30 in Las Vegas, Oct. 4 in Denver and Oct. 4 at the University of Wisconsin in Madison.

On Oct. 5, Obama again said, “al Qaeda is on the run and Osama bin Laden is no more.”

At a fundraising event Oct. 9 in San Francisco, Obama said, “and today, al Qaeda is on its heels and Osama bin Laden is no more.” He made the same statement on Oct. 11 at the University of Miami and later that day at a campaign event at the J.W. Marriott in Miami.

On Oct. 18 in Manchester, N.H., Obama returned to the “path to defeat” line, which he repeated Oct. 19 in Fairfax, Va.

Obama said Oct. 23 at Lynn University in Boca Raton, Fla., “al Qaeda’s core leadership has been decimated.” He repeated the same line at a campaign event in Delray Beach, Fla. that day.

That day in Dayton, Ohio, Obama said, “That’s why, working with Joe Biden and our national security team, we’ve been able to decimate al Qaeda.”

By Oct. 24, he returned to the dominant “path to defeat” theme, before going back to “decimated” the next day in Cleveland, where the president said, “I said we’d refocus on the terrorists who actually carried out the 9/11 attacks – and al Qaeda is decimated and Osama bin Laden is dead.”

It's a good thing Obama tells the truth as good as bush does, huh?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,400]

>It's a good thing Obama . . . .

ODS strikes again.

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>It's a good thing Obama . . . .

ODS strikes again.

Obama
Deficiency
Sense

Absolutely

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[airdvr 197]

jclalor

The world was a much better place With Sadam Hussein in it.

I'm fairly sure there's laundry list of people who don't share the same sentiment.

http://history1900s.about.com/od/saddamhussein/a/husseincrimes.htm

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Amazon 7]

airdvr

***The world was a much better place With Sadam Hussein in it.

I'm fairly sure there's laundry list of people who don't share the same sentiment.

http://history1900s.about.com/od/saddamhussein/a/husseincrimes.htm

Hey it is all good if all these people made billions.... http://www.reasoned.org/e_PNAC2.htm

How many Iraqis attacked the Twin Towers again?????

[billvon 2,400]

>I'm fairly sure there's laundry list of people who don't share the same sentiment.

There may well be.

And at some point in the future we may support a strong sectarian leader in Iraq willing to kill large numbers of "terrorists" to accomplish our objective of an ISIS-free Iraq. And it would help if he hated the Iranians and was willing to harass them to take their focus off us. And if that comes to pass I have no doubt that the supporters of the president who did that will vigorously defend the new strongman, just as Reagan's supporters supported Hussein. "Are you really upset that he's killing terrorists? Oh boo hoo." "So he's a little harsh. Would you rather have ISIS in charge?" "You're either with us or you're against us."

We could even send Donald Rumsfeld over there to shake his hand again.

[airdvr 197]

hehe...I love it when you guys re-write history. You always want to make it sound like 9/11 happened and we attacked Iraq.

Watch these people during the Clinton administration....(I know you won't). The drum beat to go after Saddam started then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACffW99kOB8

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Andy9o8 0]

turtlespeed

***>It's a good thing Obama . . . .

ODS strikes again.

Obama
Deficiency
Sense

Absolutely

You sound syndicalism about Obama.

[mirage62 0]

Bill, Amazon and others......

I get that you think it was a mistake to go there (I agree) what I don't get is WHY we are going back.

You see you both argue greatly about how BUSH fucked up. It seems that pulling out all the troops was supported by the left (Nobody buys the argument that troops couldn't be left behind that studies that situation)

Why the hell are we back? Obama promised to get us OUT of wars.

Stick the "We broke it we bought it crap" all the administration had to do was NOT go back. Let ISIS run wild, big deal.

Troops will die in Iraq soon.

And most of the far left won't give a shit as long as they can figure out how to blame Bush.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[lawrocket 3]

airdvr

hehe...I love it when you guys re-write history. You always want to make it sound like 9/11 happened and we attacked Iraq.

Watch these people during the Clinton administration....(I know you won't). The drum beat to go after Saddam started then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACffW99kOB8

The narrative keeps changing. It was abiut WMDS that were never found, remember? Or stopping terrorists. Or about ensuring oil (of course, ISIS has control of a bunch of it right now. You'd think that the US would have secured that. But nope. So being about oil is a bit of a stretxh).

I do think it was a massive cluster fuck. And still is. We e gone from over estimating a threat to dealing with the consequences of underestimating a threat.

I'm looking at the Middle East under Obama. What are his accomplishments? With the exception of passing off Israel there is little difference between him and Bush. Leaving wakes of instability

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,400]

>I get that you think it was a mistake to go there (I agree) what I don't get is WHY we
>are going back.

Because we don't learn from history.

>And most of the far left won't give a shit as long as they can figure out how to
>blame Bush.

Probably true. Just as most of the far right doesn't care that 4000 soldiers died in Iraq already. Because WMD.

[billvon 2,400]

>hehe...I love it when you guys re-write history.

No, you misunderstand. I am saying we will make exactly the same mistake again. The above was not a "this is what did happen" - the above was "this is what will probably happen again."

>You always want to make it sound like 9/11 happened and we attacked Iraq.

9/11 did happen. And we did attack Iraq. And no amount of denial will change that.

[winsor 186]

lawrocket

***hehe...I love it when you guys re-write history. You always want to make it sound like 9/11 happened and we attacked Iraq.

Watch these people during the Clinton administration....(I know you won't). The drum beat to go after Saddam started then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACffW99kOB8

The narrative keeps changing. It was abiut WMDS that were never found, remember? Or stopping terrorists. Or about ensuring oil (of course, ISIS has control of a bunch of it right now. You'd think that the US would have secured that. But nope. So being about oil is a bit of a stretxh).

I do think it was a massive cluster fuck. And still is. We e gone from over estimating a threat to dealing with the consequences of underestimating a threat.

I'm looking at the Middle East under Obama. What are his accomplishments? With the exception of passing off Israel there is little difference between him and Bush. Leaving wakes of instability

First off, we know for CERTAIN that Saddam Hussein had WMDs, and we have the RECEIPTS TO PROVE IT!

Having said that, I think that both Harvard grads either failed to take History or cheated to get the grade.

[turtlespeed 212]

Andy9o8

******>It's a good thing Obama . . . .

ODS strikes again.

Obama
Deficiency
Sense

Absolutely

You sound syndicalism about Obama.

I'm not sure your auto correct is working, I think you meant to write, "You have sound cynicism about Obama."

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[airdvr 197]

billvon

>hehe...I love it when you guys re-write history.

No, you misunderstand. I am saying we will make exactly the same mistake again. The above was not a "this is what did happen" - the above was "this is what will probably happen again."

>You always want to make it sound like 9/11 happened and we attacked Iraq.

9/11 did happen. And we did attack Iraq. And no amount of denial will change that.

I'm sure 15 years ago you and yours were relaxing on the west coast watching NYC fall down. You seem to forget the mood of the country. You seem to forget that we knew Bin Laden was a problem for years and we could have taken him out but we had a POTUS who was more interested in abusing interns than he was in protecting the US.

Yes I'm certain if you had been president and 6 months into your first term we had that type of attack on our soil you'd have made the correct decision. You could afford to put the US at risk by ignoring Hussein and his WMDs.

And while we're on the subject of mistakes; how many military advisors told your messiah Barack that leaving Iraq (and the incredibly stupid mistake of telling everyone your schedule) was a bad idea.

Mistakes were made. Most here would believe lies were told...believe what you like if it makes you feel better. Mistakes continue to be made. Leave ISIS alone someone said. Yea...that's the ticket. What number would you like to put on that mistake?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Amazon 7]

airdvr

***>hehe...I love it when you guys re-write history.

No, you misunderstand. I am saying we will make exactly the same mistake again. The above was not a "this is what did happen" - the above was "this is what will probably happen again."

>You always want to make it sound like 9/11 happened and we attacked Iraq.

9/11 did happen. And we did attack Iraq. And no amount of denial will change that.

I'm sure 15 years ago you and yours were relaxing on the west coast watching NYC fall down. You seem to forget the mood of the country. You seem to forget that we knew Bin Laden was a problem for years and we could have taken him out but we had a POTUS who was more interested in abusing interns than he was in protecting the US.

Yes I'm certain if you had been president and 6 months into your first term we had that type of attack on our soil you'd have made the correct decision. You could afford to put the US at risk by ignoring Hussein and his WMDs.

And while we're on the subject of mistakes; how many military advisors told your messiah Barack that leaving Iraq (and the incredibly stupid mistake of telling everyone your schedule) was a bad idea.

Mistakes were made. Most here would believe lies were told...believe what you like if it makes you feel better. Mistakes continue to be made. Leave ISIS alone someone said. Yea...that's the ticket. What number would you like to put on that mistake?

Wow it has been a while since a case of CDS showed up.. way to go.
At the time if you remember the mood of the people did not support him doing anything more than lobbing a few million dollars per cruise missle at a few targets.

The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy was throwing mud daily trying to get something or anything to stick. The PNAC was telling us that if they ever got elected to office... they would take us to war on any trumped up bullshit they could glom onto. Perhaps more of you neo-cons should have paid attention to Dicky and Wolfies plans to get thousands of young Americans killed to enrich themselves.... remember some dude from Texas saying he was not going to persue "nation-building" yeah... how did that campaign promise turn out...
Facts matter....

[mirage62 0]

Horse shit. If you believe all that crap why aren't you screaming about us being BACK there???

One asshole takes us there - he's the devil

Another one takes us back and you aren't posting all the time about how wrong that is.

You don't care if we are at war - you just didn't like the first asshole.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[Driver1 0]

mirage62

Horse shit. If you believe all that crap why aren't you screaming about us being BACK there???

One asshole takes us there - he's the devil

Another one takes us back and you aren't posting all the time about how wrong that is.

You don't care if we are at war - you just didn't like the first asshole.

BINGO. And you know why? The "R" next to his name.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!