Baltimore prosecutor charges police with murder in death of Freddie Gray

[ryoder 1,384]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/

There wasn't even probable cause to arrest him.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[normiss 622]

I was very impressed with her speech as well as her balls.
This IS the right thing.
The applause she received when she announced charges was deserved.
It's about damn time.

[Andy9o8 0]

The times are getting as ugly as they were a generation ago. I recently spent the day working with a whole bunch of clerk-level office personnel in a local government office. About evenly split among white, black and hispanic. The black clerks all wore wristbands that said "Black lives matter". The white clerks all had blue wristbands that said "Police lives matter".
The African American community feels under siege. You bet they were applauding. The police community, not just the cops but all their families and friends (very much like military families), feels under siege. I'm sure they were not applauding.
It's all really bad.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Andy9o8

The times are getting as ugly as they were a generation ago. I recently spent the day working with a whole bunch of clerk-level office personnel in a local government office. About evenly split among white, black and hispanic. The black clerks all wore wristbands that said "Black lives matter". The white clerks all had blue wristbands that said "Police lives matter".
The African American community feels under siege. You bet they were applauding. The police community, not just the cops but all their families and friends (very much like military families), feels under siege. I'm sure they were not applauding.
It's all really bad.

We have watched the polarization grow within the US for quite some time now. This us vs. them mentality you now see in multiple aspects.

[skycop 0]

Yep,
Very accurate post.
This one is very simple, the guy claimed he was injured initially, they apparently refused him medical attention. I'm sure it's their policy to get a medical evaluation if someone claims an injury, especially after a use of force. Even if that claim is complete bullshit, which in many cases a bad guy is just prolonging the inevitable. In this case the guy was apparently actually injured, and they blew it off.
If they would have called a squad (parlance around here for an ambulance), this whole thing wouldn't have happened.
That is the way the prosecutor is looking at it, and she is coming after everyone with guns blazing. Their wanton violation of policy is going to get them hammered.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[SkyDekker 1,123]

ryoder

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/

There wasn't even probable cause to arrest him.

He got arrested for making eye contact and running.

Why would some one who doesn't have anything illegal on him run when he sees a group of cops?

[Hjeada 0]

SkyDekker

***http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/

There wasn't even probable cause to arrest him.

He got arrested for making eye contact and running.

Why would some one who doesn't have anything illegal on him run when he sees a group of cops?

Perhaps because he had a lengthy criminal record and had committed other crimes and thought the police were onto him again, perhaps because he had previously been whooped by the police, perhaps because that is was his engrained response for many years...perhaps perhaps perhaps...doesn't really matter why he ran, what matters is how the situation was handled, which was criminal.

Dudeist Skydiver #0511

[skycop 0]

@ryoder
That is complete bullshit.
Read Terry vs. Ohio

The guy is a known criminal, acting suspiciously , all you need is reasonable suspicion to stop him and ask him why he is running or acting in that way. The area he was in was also a high crime area.
If he refused to stop then legal consequences apply, he can be forcibly stopped with reasonable suspicion.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[SkyDekker 1,123]

skycop

That is complete bullshit.
Read Terry vs. Ohio

The guy is a known criminal, acting suspiciously , all you need is reasonable suspicion to stop him and ask him why he is running or acting in that way. The area he was in was also a high crime area.
If he refused to stop then legal consequences apply, he can be forcibly stopped with reasonable suspicion.

Running is suspicious? I am running a half-marathon on Sunday, I'll try not to make eye-contact with a cop.

[grue 1]

SkyDekker

***http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/

There wasn't even probable cause to arrest him.

He got arrested for making eye contact and running.

Why would some one who doesn't have anything illegal on him run when he sees a group of cops?

I did it once when I was younger just to see if they'd actually chase me.

cavete terrae.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Between you and the previous poster there were certainly some reasons I hadn't thought of yet. INcluding the offering that maybe he had done something illegal and thought theye were there to arrest him.

[skycop 0]

If you were a prior contact criminal, acting suspicious, in a high crime area, well then yes, I'd chase you...........
At this point in my career, I'd have the young guys chase you.

I'll give you two examples, that actually happened to me, during Terry Stops.

It's 2:30am in a dark residential alley, I see a guy sneaking around looking in back yards. I watch him a while and he continues to do this for several minutes. I sneak up on him and stop him in the alley, once I get up to him his hair is messed up, his shirt kinda wrinkled, and his eyes puffy. I ask him for ID and ask him what he is doing. He says he lives down the street and his dog got out, he was looking for it. His ID says he lives down the street, we go to his house and his back door is wide open and his wife immediately asks if we found the dog. Reasonable suspicion, he could have been committing crimes or about to commit a crime, he wasn't and we both went on our way.

I see a guy in the middle of the afternoon walking down the street with a pillow case, there is a home stereo in the case. The guy is a known offender for drugs and theft. I stop him and he says "I'm moving dude, my old lady kicked me out", he is a transient type guy. I check him for warrants, he was clear, and I'm just about ready to send him on his way. Another guy comes running down the street yelling, "that guy just broke into my house". I detain the guy and go to the house, the front storm door is kicked in, the stereo is missing and so is one pillow case, which matches the one my bad guy has.
Those are the essence of Terry Stops, they occur thousands of times daily.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Except that the only suspicious thing he was doing at that point was that he started running.

[skycop 0]

Uhhh,
You don't know what else transpired, neither do I, it's the totality of the circumstances.
The guy was a career criminal, he started this whole situation by running and previously engaging in criminal activity, ALOT. The cops failed to render aid, they also failed in their moral, ethical, and professional standards to stop the chain of events unfolding by apparently willfully violating policy.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Amazon 7]

SkyDekker

Except that the only suspicious thing he was doing at that point was that he started running.

Depends on his ability to outrun Officer Donut

[skycop 0]

Which apparently wasn't very good,
Not a good idea to run from bike guys, when I was a bike guy, I chased a dude 7 blocks. I was in really good shape, what I lacked in speed, I made up for in endurance..............

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Quote

Uhhh,
You don't know what else transpired, neither do I, it's the totality of the circumstances.

Does that totality of circumstances explain how some one get's arrested for a switchblade, which now apparently was a legal knife?

I can't say I am an expert on knives. Is it very difficult to establish whether the knife was legal or not?

[rhaig 0]

SkyDekker

Does that totality of circumstances explain how some one get's arrested for a switchblade, which now apparently was a legal knife?

I can't say I am an expert on knives. Is it very difficult to establish whether the knife was legal or not?

I've been questioned by officers before after opening my knife in such a manner that they thought it was a switchblade. It was not. Depending on the knife, it's possible to open it in a way that makes it seem to be a switchblade.

Depending on the jurisdiction there are many things that can make a knife illegal to carry. Length, opening mechanism, number of sharpened edges, style of blade... all these can be factors in legality. As such it really can be difficult to establish the legality of a blade at a distance.

--
Rob

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Quote

As such it really can be difficult to establish the legality of a blade at a distance.

It wasn't at a distance.

He ran, they chased. Caught him, then frisked him. Found the knife and arrested him for possession of a switchblade. Prosecutor today says it was a legal knife.

How hard is it to tell the difference when you have the knife in your hands?

[normiss 622]

Thankfully, the prosecutor there disagrees with your position.
That could be why it's becoming so important for cops to actually know the law.

[Andy9o8 0]

I'm not going to debate Terry with you. I was studying Terry while you were still a rugrat. Get off my lawn.
But I'll tell you this: every poor urban black and hispanic lives in a "high crime" area, it's right outside his front door. So geographically he's already automatically a suspect just walking down to the corner store. Most white people have no idea what it's like to spend a lifetime living with that every day.

[skycop 0]

I've been doing Terry since you've been chasing ambulances, and I agree with what you are saying to a point.
One of my Terry stops (and subsequent drug arrest) went to our state Supreme Court, was upheld at every level.
Don't need a lecture, "just walking to the corner store" is bull, and you know it. It's the totality of the circumstances, and high crime areas just aren't black and Hispanic.
Smoke and mirrors may work on juries.......................

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[rushmc 18]

normiss

I was very impressed with her speech as well as her balls.
This IS the right thing.
The applause she received when she announced charges was deserved.
It's about damn time.

I was impressd with the politics of her speech

You all might want to be a bit careful with your positions

More is coming out as I type this.......

Oh

And I am glad YOU know they (the cops) are guilty

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rhaig 0]

SkyDekker

Quote

As such it really can be difficult to establish the legality of a blade at a distance.

It wasn't at a distance.

He ran, they chased. Caught him, then frisked him. Found the knife and arrested him for possession of a switchblade. Prosecutor today says it was a legal knife.

How hard is it to tell the difference when you have the knife in your hands?

so when you asked the question above, you weren't asking a question... you were being intentionally obtuse. Ok. I won't offer any more info then.

--
Rob

[skycop 0]

"And I am glad YOU know they (the cops) are guilty"

I'm waiting for the facts as well, but the not seeking immediate medical attention is going to jam them up, BAD.

I'll let our legal expert Andy explain "wanton" behavior, and it's potential legal consequences.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"