Islam...the religion of peace?

[Suslique 0]

rehmwa

i think people feel safer/protected when they expect violence from certain group of people. realising the fact that danger might come from anywhere is uncomfortable. the whole violent nature is brilliantly described in Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment btw depressing as hell because it is.

Amazon

thank you so much for help, i appreciate it! i have a primal fear or insects, not scared of jumping out of a perfectly fine airplane but the thought of a tick makes me itch :)

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[Amazon 7]

Suslique

rehmwa

i think people feel safer/protected when they expect violence from certain group of people. realising the fact that danger might come from anywhere is uncomfortable. the whole violent nature is brilliantly described in Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment btw depressing as hell because it is.

Amazon

thank you so much for help, i appreciate it! i have a primal fear or insects, not scared of jumping out of a perfectly fine airplane but the thought of a tick makes me itch :)

Map of most prevalent Lyme disease areas.

Preventing Tick bites

[winsor 187]

Suslique

Could you please elaborate, which parts of Islam are evil to you? genuine curiosity here.

It's pretty much across the board, I'm afraid.

Rather than state particulars so that we wind up picking flyshit out of pepper, allow me an analogy.

My father went out with the Fleet to the South Pacific as part of a series of invasions. His assumption was that everyone on both sides wanted to get it over and - with any luck - go home.

Steaming along the Western side of Luzon, they witnessed a number of ships without superstructures being towed by oceangoing tugs.

Asking an Officer what was the story, the response was along the lines of "gee, I don't know."

Later, at anchorage, they went through the familiar drill of an observation plane ('Washing Machine Charlie') flying overhead, the fleet firing 3 or 4 million dollars worth of ammunition at it, and the plane flying blithely back to base.

Having been alerted, they were at battle stations when the inevitable bombers appeared some time later. When, instead of flying over or diving to release their bombs, the 'bombers' simply flew into the biggest ship they could, the realization sunk in that THESE GUYS AREN'T GOING HOME!

At this moment, his view of Japanese culture and things Japanese changed irrevocably, and it stayed with him until he died.

We had close Japanese friends all my life, and he spent time in Japan at various times, but there were parts of Japanese culture he witnessed first hand (his ship was eventually sunk by a kamikaze) that were simply beyond the Pale.

I won't waste the breath to go into the "some of my best friends are...' bit. There are, however, folks with whom I will spend time in a Western venue, but I would not dream of visiting at their home. I could not get a visa to many of their home countries without lying on the application, so I would give it a pass.

We will not quibble about the fact that there are things about Western society that I find entirely unacceptable, since that has no impact on my stance regarding Islam. "You guys are fucked up too!" is not a viable defense.

When any group of people shows fundamental acceptance of things I consider appalling, I generally seek to avoid them.


BSBD,

Winsor

[Suslique 0]

Amazon

this is so helpful, thank you for taking you time!

winsor

i wish no one would generalise people/traditions (there are lots of diametrically different cultures all sharing the same religion within muslim community)/religion. but i wish many other things would be different in the world and unfortunately they are not. what can i say? thanks for taking time and replying to my question.

blue skies

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[turtlespeed 212]

wmw999

I'd say that's a human thing, too. Pretty much every organization has its pocket of corruption, or just differing opinions on where the resources should go. I've been involved with the inner workings of a church, too, and while no one accused us of being corrupt, some did say the church was too selfish. Note that our stated goal was to pass on over 50% of our gross income to humanitarian charities (ie not the minister, Cadillacs, building, etc), so this was a pretty generous group. With a membership of about 40, we could do about thirty percent.

But one member thought that we were too selfish when we bought a copier to replace the one giving us constant trouble, and another objected to our selling our building (and donating all the proceeds) when we closed, rather than ceding it back to the church organization.

I think one of the defining characteristics of an organization's likelihood for corruption is the degree to which it looks outward rather than inward, and the degree to which it tries and/or needs to protect itself and its members. And those are all human things, too.

Wendy P.

40 is a small business. I was speaking of mid to large and super grande.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Driver1 0]

Another question...

What's the deal with the Sunnis and Shiites not liking each other? I understand they follow a different brand of Islam, much like in Christianity where you have Catholics and then Episcopalians, etc... But what I've seen, especially in Iraq over the decades is the Sunnis and Shiites hate each other and will kill the other if the opportunity arises.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[Suslique 0]

Driver1

Another question...

What's the deal with the Sunnis and Shiites not liking each other? I understand they follow a different brand of Islam, much like in Christianity where you have Catholics and then Episcopalians, etc... But what I've seen, especially in Iraq over the decades is the Sunnis and Shiites hate each other and will kill the other if the opportunity arises.

The difference arose after the death of Muhammad. The next khalifa was appointed Abu Bakr -- one of the closest of his companions, there were people who weren't happy with this outcome and they said that Ali should've been the next khalifah. So that was the point of separation of Shia sect from Sunni. Nowadays, majority of Sunnis and Shia get along pretty well, of course in places like Iraq nothing works the way it should, I would not take it as an example. I personally lived most of my life in the country with shia majority including my own family, but I never accepted their view of Islam (due to many theological moments) so I practice Sunni Islam, my immediate family are also all Sunnis now but my cousins are shia, we get along just like any normal people get along. Remember media blows everything out of proportion vast majority of the time.

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[Driver1 0]

Suslique

***Another question...

What's the deal with the Sunnis and Shiites not liking each other? I understand they follow a different brand of Islam, much like in Christianity where you have Catholics and then Episcopalians, etc... But what I've seen, especially in Iraq over the decades is the Sunnis and Shiites hate each other and will kill the other if the opportunity arises.

The difference arose after the death of Muhammad. The next khalifa was appointed Abu Bakr -- one of the closest of his companions, there were people who weren't happy with this outcome and they said that Ali should've been the next khalifah. So that was the point of separation of Shia sect from Sunni. Nowadays, majority of Sunnis and Shia get along pretty well, of course in places like Iraq nothing works the way it should, I would not take it as an example. I personally lived most of my life in the country with shia majority including my own family, but I never accepted their view of Islam (due to many theological moments) so I practice Sunni Islam, my immediate family are also all Sunnis now but my cousins are shia, we get along just like any normal people get along. Remember media blows everything out of proportion vast majority of the time.

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. Iraq is a big time clusterfuck these days unfortunately.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[Suslique 0]

There was a sad/funny moment on my friend's funeral 5 years ago. My friend was Sunni but his dad was Shia. So his funeral was held both in Sunni and Shia way lol

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[Amazon 7]

Driver1

******Another question...

What's the deal with the Sunnis and Shiites not liking each other? I understand they follow a different brand of Islam, much like in Christianity where you have Catholics and then Episcopalians, etc... But what I've seen, especially in Iraq over the decades is the Sunnis and Shiites hate each other and will kill the other if the opportunity arises.

The difference arose after the death of Muhammad. The next khalifa was appointed Abu Bakr -- one of the closest of his companions, there were people who weren't happy with this outcome and they said that Ali should've been the next khalifah. So that was the point of separation of Shia sect from Sunni. Nowadays, majority of Sunnis and Shia get along pretty well, of course in places like Iraq nothing works the way it should, I would not take it as an example. I personally lived most of my life in the country with shia majority including my own family, but I never accepted their view of Islam (due to many theological moments) so I practice Sunni Islam, my immediate family are also all Sunnis now but my cousins are shia, we get along just like any normal people get along. Remember media blows everything out of proportion vast majority of the time.

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. Iraq is a big time clusterfuck these days unfortunately.

Back in 2003 I told people that the invasion would bring about the breakup of Iraq... it was and still is inevitable... Iraq was a construct of the English after WWI where they drew arbitrary lines on a map with the whole Balfor thing.
They did not take into account tribal rivalries or the rift within Islam either....
Eventually we will end up with three countries.... Sunnistan aligned with the Salafism of The Kingdom..... Shiastan.. aligned with Iran... and the oft maligned and attacked Kurdistan... that the Turks assured will be a pain in their ass back in WWI when they tried some ethnic cleansing of their Kurds and Armenians.. and still oppress them in the Kurdish areas of Turkey... and Iran does the same to a lesser extent within their Kurdish areas of their country.
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~gov46/dist-kurdish.gif

It will be interesting to watch over the next few years as all these groups deal with each other.... like in Yemen right now.... As well as the ongoing rise of ISIL/ISIS/Daesh

[winsor 187]

Driver1

Another question...

What's the deal with the Sunnis and Shiites not liking each other? I understand they follow a different brand of Islam, much like in Christianity where you have Catholics and then Episcopalians, etc... But what I've seen, especially in Iraq over the decades is the Sunnis and Shiites hate each other and will kill the other if the opportunity arises.

It is similar to the breakdown between the Roman Catholic Church and some Protestant movements.

Shi'a, from Shi'atu Ali, meaning 'followers of Ali,' is the more hierarchical of the two major denominations; Sunni Islam is much more distributed - there are no Ayatollahs amongst the Sunnis, for example.

Both accept the Koran ('recitation') as being the Revealed Word of God (tm), but the issue came with quite who would inherit the mantle of Muhammad upon his death.

The Koran is but a cherry-picked set of transcriptions of the ramblings of Muhammad (he was entirely illiterate); those that were deemed too fucked-up for print were considered to have been influenced by Satan in their transcription ('Satanic Verses') and committed to the flames.

An ironic note is that Muhammad is quoted as saying that the proof of the truth of Islam is its monolithic nature. The fact that Christianity was fractious by the time he came along showed irrefutably that it was not the 'True Religion.' I can find the Sura if pressed.

In any event, those that became Sunni took exception to the practice of selecting the Khalif from the family of Muhammad, seeing that as a cult of personality and thus blasphemous. The Shi'a viewed the Sunni's rejection of the divine selection of the Khalif as equally blasphemous.

In any event, the comment attributed to Yasir Arafat is that religious wars are but fights over who has the best invisible friend.


BSBD,

Winsor

[rehmwa 2]

Suslique

rehmwa

i think people feel safer/protected when they expect violence from certain group of people. realising the fact that danger might come from anywhere is uncomfortable. the whole violent nature is brilliantly described in Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment btw depressing as hell because it is.

I agree - to point to an area, or demographic, and say - THERE's the boogieman. gives one a sense of comfort in their own area - or at least something one can act on. Plus it's 'convenient' to attack the entire demographic, rather than do the extra work of sifting through the individuals to find the real threats.

Still, it's different than noting propensities and playing the odds. But that gets twisted too.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Suslique 0]

Winsor

You are misleading people in two points:

1. The proof of Islam is not in Islam being monolithic, it was revealed by Muhammad in the prophecy long before, that there will be over 70 sects in Islam. The proof of Islam being true religion for us is Quran, it is considered verbatim word of Allah and zero changes have been made to it.

2. Satanic verses - there was a poem by Salman Rushdie. Another mentioning of so called satanic verse in a hadith, well that hadith was proven to be fabricated. There is a science of hadith in Islam that investigates tons of fabricated hadith from authentic ones.

You may despise Islam and Muslims but please don't put your own opinion of it as an ultimate truth. Thanks

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[Guest]

"...the image of a muslim for average american is so dehumanised (thank you mass media and “faux” news) that it makes perfectly acceptable to express racism openly..."

Please explain to me: What is 'racist' about opposing a totalitarian religious dogma?

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[billvon 2,434]

>Please explain to me: What is 'racist' about opposing a totalitarian religious dogma?

It is racist to characterize Arabs as violent Jihadists - which FOX et al regularly do. (And they also regularly conflate Arabs with Islam.)

[Suslique 0]

[B]Markharju

You might want to see it like that, to me and over billion of Muslims including western converts its not totalitarian religious dogma. Actually there are plenty of non Muslims who doesn't consider it that either.

It is easy to play with words, it is easy for an intelligent person to justify any words and actions but that doesn't make it fair and true.

Opinion is not an absolute truth. Its just an opinion.

If someone offends me for being Muslim and calls me a raghead for wearing hijab or will call me an indocrinated psychopath that is not openly opposing whatever they want to oppose, that makes them a racist, angry human who probably weren't hugged enough as a child.

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[Suslique 0]

billvon

>Please explain to me: What is 'racist' about opposing a totalitarian religious dogma?

It is racist to characterize Arabs as violent Jihadists - which FOX et al regularly do. (And they also regularly conflate Arabs with Islam.)

Open racism from mass media is a whole another world, actually its them who make it look OK to express the same racism in daily life by ordinary people.

Brainwashing day and night. If 20 years ago bad guys from action movies were German or Albanian now 98% of them are Muslims.

How humanity is allowing big screen to form their opinion about the world? Who to love, who to hate. I will repeat myself and will suggest everyone to read Chomsky's " Manufacturing content".

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[billvon 2,434]

winsor

***
Could you please elaborate, which parts of Islam are evil to you? genuine curiosity here.

It's pretty much across the board, I'm afraid.

Imagine, if you will, a pedantic Hindu man coming up to you and telling you how the Torah set the foundation for the fact that Jews love money over all else. I imagine you might pay little heed to his words.

[SkyDekker 1,145]

markharju

"...the image of a muslim for average american is so dehumanised (thank you mass media and “faux” news) that it makes perfectly acceptable to express racism openly..."

Please explain to me: What is 'racist' about opposing a totalitarian religious dogma?

mh
.

You mean like when God told Bush to invade Iraq?

[winsor 187]

billvon

******
Could you please elaborate, which parts of Islam are evil to you? genuine curiosity here.

It's pretty much across the board, I'm afraid.

Imagine, if you will, a pedantic Hindu man coming up to you and telling you how the Torah set the foundation for the fact that Jews love money over all else. I imagine you might pay little heed to his words.

Wait a minute - are you suggesting we don't?

[Suslique 0]

winsor

i'm reading up on what you said about nazi - muslim connection. here, take a look at this:
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslims_who_fought_against_the_real_fascists

p.s. from my personal family history: my muslim grandfather who fought in WW2 against nazis married my jewish grandmother who was a refugee.
p.p.s. my own mother experienced discrimination and racism back in a day. she was called a "dirty jew" on numerous occasions while living in Moscow (despite having a muslim father, her looks are very much jewish). and now if she ever visits US and stumbles upon racists they will call her a dirty muslim?

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[Driver1 0]

Suslique

winsor

i'm reading up on what you said about nazi - muslim connection. here, take a look at this:
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/muslims_who_fought_against_the_real_fascists

p.s. from my personal family history: my muslim grandfather who fought in WW2 against nazis married my jewish grandmother who was a refugee.
p.p.s. my own mother experienced discrimination and racism back in a day. she was called a "dirty jew" on numerous occasions while living in Moscow (despite having a muslim father, her looks are very much jewish). and now if she ever visits US and stumbles upon racists they will call her a dirty muslim?

Unfortunately, there are elements of society here in the U.S. who are racist enough to say stuff like that. I had a friend from New Zealand who's a native Maori and came to the U.S. for a vacation. She went to a social event and had some dumb shits tell her she wasn't welcome because they thought she was a nigger.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[rehmwa 2]

Driver1

Unfortunately, there are elements of society here in the U.S. who are racist enough to say stuff like that.

Just to clarify - there are elements of society like that everywhere. I've seen the absolute worst of it outside the US. - YMMV

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Suslique 0]

rehmwa

***Unfortunately, there are elements of society here in the U.S. who are racist enough to say stuff like that.

Just to clarify - there are elements of society like that everywhere. I've seen the absolute worst of it outside the US. - YMMV

Absolutely.

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[RonD1120 58]

I still think racist is the wrong word because it is being applied to nations, religious factions, etc.

Quote

rac·ist
noun
1. a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
synonyms: racial bigot, racialist, xenophobe, chauvinist, supremacist
"he was exposed as a racist"
(racially) discriminatory, racialist, prejudiced, bigoted
"a racist society"

adjective
1.having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.
"we are investigating complaints about racist abuse at the club"

I guess popular usage determines correctness, similar to the use of empathetic for empathic. To me it sounds ignorant.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.