Fracking Banned in NY State Due to Health Risks

[wolfriverjoe 1,353]

SkyDekker

Quote

how's OPEC's action affect domestic fracking operations for natural gas?

Cheap oil reduces the demand for gas.

Not really. I can't think of too many places that have a choice which to use.

House furnaces are a good example. You have one or the other. I can't convert my oil burner to gas (I'd have to replace it), and I don't know of any gas furnaces that can use oil as a substitute.

And right now, due to the fracking that's gone on in the western Appalachians (Ohio & Pennsylvania), gas is at record low prices. They are still fracking away because for Natural Gas, it can be extracted very very cheaply by fracking. Oil, not so much.

And while Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and a couple others can survive low market prices for crude for a while; Iran, Venezuela, Russia, Nigeria and a whole lot more can't.
Russia is already hurting. Venezuela has been hurting for a while. This will just make that worse.

I don't know what is going to happen, but OPEC is going to go through some tough times.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SkyDekker 1,147]

Quote

Not really. I can't think of too many places that have a choice which to use.

House furnaces are a good example. You have one or the other. I can't convert my oil burner to gas (I'd have to replace it), and I don't know of any gas furnaces that can use oil as a substitute.

Yes it was very simply stated.

However, when oil is very expensive and gas is very cheap, it makes sense to spend the money to switch from oil burning equipment to gas burning equipment.

When oil is cheap and gas is cheap, that conversion does not make as much sense.

Quote

And while Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and a couple others can survive low market prices for crude for a while; Iran, Venezuela, Russia, Nigeria and a whole lot more can't.
Russia is already hurting. Venezuela has been hurting for a while. This will just make that worse.

OPEC doesn't care about those countries hurting.

[wolfriverjoe 1,353]

SkyDekker

Quote

And while Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and a couple others can survive low market prices for crude for a while; Iran, Venezuela, Russia, Nigeria and a whole lot more can't.
Russia is already hurting. Venezuela has been hurting for a while. This will just make that worse.

OPEC doesn't care about those countries hurting.

OPEC is those countries.

Some of them, anyway. Not Russia, but to ignore Russia is dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC#Current_members

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SkyDekker 1,147]

wolfriverjoe

***

Quote

And while Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and a couple others can survive low market prices for crude for a while; Iran, Venezuela, Russia, Nigeria and a whole lot more can't.
Russia is already hurting. Venezuela has been hurting for a while. This will just make that worse.

OPEC doesn't care about those countries hurting.

OPEC is those countries.

Some of them, anyway. Not Russia, but to ignore Russia is dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC#Current_members

Yes I know. But who do you think holds the power withing OPEC? I will give you a hint, Nigeria and Venezuela it aint.

[billvon 2,435]

>perhaps then we should look at regulating china's coal-burning power plants

Done!

From The Guardian, Sep 16 2014:
=============
Under new Chinese regulations, the use of coal with ash content higher than 16% and sulphur content above 1% will be restricted in the main population centres of the country from 1 January, 2015.

There will be a ban on mining, sale, transportation and imports of coal with ash and sulfur content exceeding 40% and 3% respectively. For coal that will be transported for more than 600 km from production site or receiving port, the ash content limit will be 20%.

The move, aimed at helping lift the smog that envelops Chinese cities such as Beijing, is likely to hurt Australian producers, who typically export coal with ash content above 20%. Australia exports around 50m tonnes of thermal coal each year to China and the ban is expected to reduce exports by 40%, a cost of $1.46bn at the current price of $73 a tonne.
===============

[SkyMagilla 0]

Any state that bans fracking, should not be allowed to have any of the refined gasoline products that come from fracking elsewhere.

Let 'em pay higher prices for their choice.

[chutem 0]

If OPEC has lowered the price of oil to make fracking not profitable what happens to the price of OPEC oil if fracking is no longer legal in the US?

I guess it is important to remember that some do not want us to have access to cheap energy via fossil fuels.

[skypuppy 1]

SkyDekker

*********More environmental terrorism from the left. Here in Ohio we're enjoying a robust economy because of fracking. Even Cuomo didn't want to stand too close to that decision. What a maroon.

Lol, Cuomo probbaly realizes that at current world oil prices there is no fracking in the US.

WHy do you think OPEC is refusing to cut production? Oil under $70 a barrel is sustainable for Kuwait, UAE and Qatar. Not sustainable for the rest of the world.

Basically OPEC has us bent over and is lubing up.

Not so fast...

U.S. Seen as Biggest Oil Producer After Overtaking Saudi Arabia

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-04/u-s-seen-as-biggest-oil-producer-after-overtaking-saudi.html

And it's not just oil. Natural gas as well. I don't know where you're from but it's pretty busy here in central Ohio. Lots of fracking happening here.

That article is from July. Not sure if you ahve followed the news in the last couple of weeks? But at under $60 a barrel all that oil you are extracting costs more to extract than to sell. It is the same in the Oil Sands in Alberta.

Have you given any thought as to why OPEC might not be willing to cut production at this point?

That is a huge over-simplification, and frankly, not true. Existing oil projects in Alberta and in the US are still profitable at this point because the capital costs were already expended. What doesn't make sense is spending money now to build new projects that won;t pay for themselves...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Stumpy 256]

skypuppy

That is a huge over-simplification, and frankly, not true. Existing oil projects in Alberta and in the US are still profitable at this point because the capital costs were already expended.

Small point of order - the fact that there is sunk cost doesn't make them profitable overall, it just means that it doesn't make sense to stop production right now given that the ongoing extraction produces a margin. Whether its profitable in the long run will depend on how big the reserves are.

Apart from that i agree with you!

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[billvon 2,435]

>Any state that bans fracking, should not be allowed to have any of the refined gasoline
>products that come from fracking elsewhere.

And any state that bans gay marriage should not be allowed to buy any products from states that employ gay married couples! Sorry Texas. And any state that bans stem cell research should not be allowed to provide IVF for people in that state.

[gunpaq 1]

Quote

Are you referring to environmental regulations or are you referring to the industrial activities that seem out of place in small towns?

Referring to the overall impact on the community in general.

As a proponents for the gas industry coming into rural PA we had a rude awakening when what was represented about fracking operations and what actually took place were two different things. Bottom line is once the gas industry is in your community you are living in Gasland so get use to it or get out : government & gas company lying to landowners & community, gas leases and royalty agreements with landowners not being honored by the gas companies, government corruption, neighbor vs neighbor, over burden of local social services with the enormous influx of gas workers and families, purging of local businesses in the way of gas related businesses, plus the real environmental and health issues that are fact but the gas companies as well as the tree hugging environmentalists use as propaganda, etc., etc., etc. All that said, we are still proponents of the wise use of our resources and fracking if done correctly and with good planning but I am afraid that will never happen as long as corporate and government greed and corruption exists and citizens fight among themselves over gas industry and environmental spawned propaganda.

www.geronimoskydiving.com

[rehmwa 2]

SkyMagilla

Any state that bans fracking, should not be allowed to have any of the refined gasoline products that come from fracking elsewhere.

Let 'em pay higher prices for their choice.

that's silly - if they choose not to enter into a viable market, then the prices are already higher as a result. so whatever they have to purchase is outflow from them to those states that do

it's self balancing, there is no reason to artificially interfere via legislation.



why do people always just jump to big brother socially/economically trying to engineer every single little thing?

If given free rein to Congress, I'd not be surprised that one party will want to legislate more penalties on those that do not frack.
The other party will want to subsidize the purchases for those that do to support their "social" green stance on the issue.

and THEN, when they are done, they'll 'compromise' by subsidizing states that frack (encourage business growth), and states that don't (can't let babies and seniors freeze in the winter) and support it with a tax increase and some big borrowing....YAY GOVERNMENT!

neither will just butt out and let it run its natural course -

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wolfriverjoe 1,353]

SkyMagilla

Any state that bans fracking, should not be allowed to have any of the refined gasoline products that come from fracking elsewhere.

Let 'em pay higher prices for their choice.

So should Exxon/Mobil be banned from any fracking operations?
Or purchasing/using any oil or gas produced by fracking?

After all, their president joined a lawsuit to ban it near his home.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SkyMagilla 0]

billvon

>Any state that bans fracking, should not be allowed to have any of the refined gasoline
>products that come from fracking elsewhere.

And any state that bans gay marriage should not be allowed to buy any products from states that employ gay married couples! Sorry Texas. And any state that bans stem cell research should not be allowed to provide IVF for people in that state.

With the strike-through I added to focus your response so that it's not overly broad and stays on target, then I agree. To do otherwise, would be hypocritical. If your against something in your own neighborhood, you shouldn't patronize such things from other neighborhoods.

[SkyMagilla 0]

wolfriverjoe

***Any state that bans fracking, should not be allowed to have any of the refined gasoline products that come from fracking elsewhere.

Let 'em pay higher prices for their choice.

So should Exxon/Mobil be banned from any fracking operations?
Or purchasing/using any oil or gas produced by fracking?

After all, their president joined a lawsuit to ban it near his home.

There seems to be a propensity here to over-expand from one entity to an entire class. That's not where I'm coming from. Only the Exxon CEO should forego the benefits of fracked oil near his home, as to do otherwise would be hypocritical.

Some folks like to pretend to be pro-green environmentalists, while all the time consuming oil just like everyone else. I'm just saying that if they talk the talk, they should walk the walk. And pay whatever consequences that arise from that walking.

[rehmwa 2]

SkyMagilla

With the strike-through I added to focus your response so that it's not overly broad and stays on target, then I agree. To do otherwise, would be hypocritical. If your against something in your own neighborhood, you shouldn't patronize such things from other neighborhoods.

Do you have a meat packing plant, livestock farm, or huge brewery in your neighborhood?

just a harmless question

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 18]

rehmwa

***With the strike-through I added to focus your response so that it's not overly broad and stays on target, then I agree. To do otherwise, would be hypocritical. If your against something in your own neighborhood, you shouldn't patronize such things from other neighborhoods.

Do you have a meat packing plant, livestock farm, or huge brewery in your neighborhood?

just a harmless question

No
just them damed wind generators

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

rushmc

just them damed wind generators

if anything is going to be 'damed', then I expect that's a plus in my book

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[turtlespeed 212]

rehmwa

***I don't want the word terrorism to be watered down to the point of being meaningless.

yes, that would be dysfunctional
you are a hero for writing that
and so forth

and your opinion on what N Korea did to Sony?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[richravizza 25]

NY city will start to use nat gas from "Gas Land" instead of imported fuel oil.

EPA impact study : Emission Equivailent of removing every car, Bus, and Truck off the Streets of NY city.

Amazing how both sides are being played

[rehmwa 2]

turtlespeed

******I don't want the word terrorism to be watered down to the point of being meaningless.

yes, that would be dysfunctional
you are a hero for writing that
and so forth

and your opinion on what N Korea did to Sony?

a bit of a tangent, but my personal take on it

N Korea (or whoever) had a tantrum, like a baby child.
Sony buckled under it, like a bad parent with a baby child.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 0]

rehmwa

*********I don't want the word terrorism to be watered down to the point of being meaningless.

yes, that would be dysfunctional
you are a hero for writing that
and so forth

and your opinion on what N Korea did to Sony?

a bit of a tangent, but my personal take on it

N Korea (or whoever) had a tantrum, like a baby child.
Sony buckled under it, like a bad parent with a baby child.

I don't want tantrums to be watered down to the point of being meaningless.