And the Heat Goes On and On and On.

[RonD1120 58]

DanG

Quote

IMO, the thought that world climate can be controlled is the height of megalomania.

No one is talking about controlling the climate. Influencing it, yes. Controlling, no.

Why do you think man can't influence the climate? Is it too big, or is it because you think it is in the Lord's full control?

First, because it would take worldwide agreement and cooperation. That is never going to happen. Why? Because yes, it is totally under God's control.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Remster 26]

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That is never going to happen. Why? Because yes, it is totally under God's control.

So, omnipotent, except not. Gotcha.

Remster

[DanG 1]

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First, because it would take worldwide agreement and cooperation.

Did it take worldwide cooperation and agreement to wipe the Dodo off the face of the planet? Nope, just people not giving a shit.

Did it take worldwide cooperation and agreement to stop using CFCs and let to ozone layer heal? Why yes, it did, and it happened.

Quote

That is never going to happen. Why? Because yes, it is totally under God's control.

Wait, you mean God is going to prevent us from coming together to try to help all His creatures, great and small? Why would he do that?

- Dan G

[RonD1120 58]

DanG

Wait, you mean God is going to prevent us from coming together to try to help all His creatures, great and small? Why would he do that?

He is going to create a new heaven and a new earth. You silly boy. Read the Holy Bible and your questions would be answered.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,476]

>IMO, the thought that world climate can be controlled is the height of megalomania.
Next thing you know we will think we can fly, or cure diseases, or bring some dead people back to life.

[billvon 2,476]

>He is going to create a new heaven and a new earth.

Well, but he does have to appear first as a disemboweled sheep with seven eyes and seven horns. So you have some time at least.

[rushmc 18]

Heritics?

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Solar Activity - Not CO2 - Could Cause Global Warming, New Paper Says

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Indeed, the study says that the "modern maximum" – a peak in solar activity that lasted much of the last century – corresponds very well with an increase in global temperatures.

There has been increasing evidence in recent years that global warming is linked with solar activity. In 2009, Professor Henrik Svensmark from the Danish National Space Centre, said that the last time the Earth experienced unusually high temperatures, in the later Medieval period, there had also been an increase in solar activity. When this activity dropped, it led to the "little ice age" of the seventeenth century.

In 2011, three further papers suggested the Earth could be heading for a new "little ice age" as solar activity drops once again. Frank Hill of the National Solar Observatory in New Mexico said: "The fact that there are three separate lines of evidence all pointing in the same direction is very compelling."

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/07/29/Solar-Activity-Could-Cause-Global-Warming-New-Paper-Says

http://csb.scichina.com:8080/kxtb/CN/abstract/abstract514043.shtml

My point?

there is scientific work being done that usefully questions the alarmists assurtions

but in the alarmists world this is not allowed
Even in peer reviewed publications

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

but in the alarmists world this is not allowed
Even in peer reviewed publications

The fact that these papers exist and were published shows your conspiracy theory is wrong.

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

DanG

Quote

but in the alarmists world this is not allowed
Even in peer reviewed publications

The fact that these papers exist and were published shows your conspiracy theory is wrong.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

rushmc

***

Quote

but in the alarmists world this is not allowed
Even in peer reviewed publications

The fact that these papers exist and were published shows your conspiracy theory is wrong.

DUDE... the alarmists stole what you typed now... they must be trying to silence you

[rushmc 18]

Amazon

******

Quote

but in the alarmists world this is not allowed
Even in peer reviewed publications

The fact that these papers exist and were published shows your conspiracy theory is wrong.

DUDE... the alarmists stole what you typed now... they must be trying to silence you


Did you happen to see WHERE?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,476]

>Indeed, the study says that the "modern maximum" – a peak in solar activity that
>lasted much of the last century – corresponds very well with an increase in global
>temperatures.

I get a kick out of how the denial industry vaccilates between two extremes:

1) There is no way we can know what the Sun was doing 200 years ago, so there's no way you can rule it out as a factor in warming. These so-called "proxy measurements" are bullshit.

2) The Sun is definitely increasing its output; we have scientific proof that the warming is due to the Sun! See, it's right here in these proxy measurements.

In peer-reviewed science, the solar contribution to climate change is on the order of .2 watts per square meter relative to 1750, or about 5% of the total forcing.

[Amazon 7]

Meanwhile in the Arctic.... https://twitter.com/kysedai/status/494640886571995136/photo/1


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/apocalyptic-thunderstorm-rolls-into-yellowknife-1.2723307

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/29/two-new-mysterious-craters-emerge-in-siberia-deepening-giant-hole-saga/


Studies have indeed shown that the Arctic is heating up. Grist reports one paper in the Geophysical Research Papers suggests that the region hasn’t been so hot in the past 120,000 years. Still, even with more information than before on the Arctic region, it remains so distant a land that it can be difficult to get a good read on it.

[masterrig 1]

...and this?

http://home.myhughesnet.com/tv/3/player/vendor/Newsy/player/fiveminute/asset/newsy-big_waves_in_arctic_ocean_threaten_polar_ice-5min


Chuck

[lawrocket 3]

Meanwhile, the Arctic has become a denier: http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php

Take a look at arctic temperatures this year. "Record cold" has been tossed out there. It used to be that climate scientists could release studies about how bad stuff was when things looked like they were getting worse. Now there are studies about how much Arctic ice is being lost when Arctic ice is increasing in extent, volume, age, etc.

And red lightning? Wow. Next thing you know, smoke and ash are going to cause brilliant sunsets and particulates in the atmosphere will start acting as condensation nuclei.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

lawrocket

Meanwhile, the Arctic has become a denier: http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php

Take a look at arctic temperatures this year. "Record cold" has been tossed out there. It used to be that climate scientists could release studies about how bad stuff was when things looked like they were getting worse. Now there are studies about how much Arctic ice is being lost when Arctic ice is increasing in extent, volume, age, etc.

And red lightning? Wow. Next thing you know, smoke and ash are going to cause brilliant sunsets and particulates in the atmosphere will start acting as condensation nuclei.

In other words... if you do not see it.. nothing is happening..... but the people who are there seem to have noticed.

See no Changes, Hear no changes, Speak no changes

[lawrocket 3]

Um - I pointed out that changes are happening. You know, pointing out how the ice was decreasing and now it's increasing? A change. Acknowledging the change? An important change.

I did see it. It did happen. I'm not seeing it now, but if people tell me it is happening then I should just believe it. Okay. I'm free to agree with them but I better not question them. Makes sense.

When I point out a change I'm accused of seeing no changes. This is where we've come.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,476]

>Take a look at arctic temperatures this year.

OK. From NOAA:

============
2013 Arctic Report Card: Arctic boundary waters warmer than average in summer
Monday, December 9, 2013

With less and less of the Arctic covered by sea ice at the height of summer, ocean temperatures around the margins of the ice pack tend to be much warmer than average today than they were historically. However, in any given summer, natural variability in the prevailing winds and currents can amplify the overall warming in some places, and lessen it in others. Most of the Arctic boundary waters were warmer than average in summer 2013, but a few cool pockets appeared in the western Arctic and the Greenland Sea.

The map shows where sea surface temperature in August 2013 was warmer (red) or cooler (blue) than the 1982-2006 average. August 2013 sea ice extent (areas with at least 15 percent ice cover) is solid white. Although some areas experienced unusually low sea surface temperatures in August 2013—especially in the Chukchi and East Siberian Seas—unusually high sea surface temperatures dominated the waters around the ice pack.
=============
From the Danish Center for Ocean and Ice - average Arctic temps for 2014 (see attached.)
=============
From NSIDC:
Melting in the North, freezing in the South
July 17, 2014

Arctic sea ice extent continued a rapid retreat through the first two weeks of July as a high pressure cell moved over the central Arctic Ocean, bringing higher temperatures.

. . .

During the second half of June, the rate of sea ice loss in the Arctic was the second fastest in the satellite data record. As a result, by the beginning of July extent fell very close to two standard deviations below the long-term (1981 to 2010) average.

The rate of ice loss for the first half of July averaged 104,000 square kilometers (40,000 square miles) per day, 21% faster than the long-term average for this period.

Ice loss during the first two weeks of July 2014 was dominated by retreat within the Laptev Sea, and within the Kara and Beaufort seas. Open water areas now exist north of 80 degrees North in the Laptev Sea. Ice cover remains fairly extensive in the Beaufort and Kara seas compared to recent summers.

By July 15, ice extent had fallen to within 440,000 square kilometers (170,000 square miles) of that seen in 2012 (the modern satellite-era record minimum) on the same date, and was 1.54 million square kilometers (595,000 square miles) below the 1981 to 2010 average. However, ice concentration remains high within the central Arctic Ocean, particularly compared to 2012.
==============

[lawrocket 3]

It's one of the beauties about data - that there is competing data with wholly different reasonable inferences (I.e., I see about 10 days of temps above freezing at the North Pole all year).

I think it's great to see this stuff. We can disagree but show support for our viewpoints.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

lawrocket

It's one of the beauties about data - that there is competing data with wholly different reasonable inferences (I.e., I see about 10 days of temps above freezing at the North Pole all year).

I think it's great to see this stuff. We can disagree but show support for our viewpoints.

What is the melting temperature of sea ice??

[lawrocket 3]

Interesting question without an easy answer. For the ice to form, them temp must be below 29 degrees F. But, the older the ice is, the more the brine is leaches out. Multiyear ice is pretty much drinkable. It's melting temperature is closer to 32 degrees.

The older the ice the higher the melting point. Kallend has put the stuff out on this befoer.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

lawrocket

Interesting question without an easy answer. For the ice to form, them temp must be below 29 degrees F. But, the older the ice is, the more the brine is leaches out. Multiyear ice is pretty much drinkable. It's melting temperature is closer to 32 degrees.

The older the ice the higher the melting point. Kallend has put the stuff out on this befoer.

And it is interesting to watch it freeze... as it does the salinity of the water increases and the lower the temperature at which it takes to turn to ice. I have actually experienced it.. Air temps at freezing 32 degrees... is not going to freeze that stuff and when you put it in motion that prevents its forming viable ice since it is bringing warmer water from below the surface. It is still some cold stuff but watching water that is moving like that and putting a temp sensor in it and seeing 23 degrees F the first time does make you go WTF