American POW freed

[kallend 1,635]

mirage62

Interestingly two men who were serving with him when it seems he deserted, basically say they are glad he is home but do not believe he is a hero and want him to stand trail. They both say he deserted.

The GOP found people who served in Vietnam with Kerry to badmouth him too. Their campaign is long since discredited but it served its purpose. It's called "Swiftboating" (The term swiftboating (also spelled swift-boating or swift boating) is an American neologism used pejoratively to describe an unfair or untrue political attack.)

Last time I checked, he's not a deserter until found guilty of desertion.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Do you think every member of his unit is lying? Do you think all those reports are false?

Do you have problems with comprehending what I've written?

[Amazon 7]

Anvilbrother

Stop playing your number 1 play from Rules for Radicals.

I am so sorry.. you asked a question.. I answered.. is that not the game you are so poorly playing???

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Lets focus on the topic at hand.

Oh cool

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Reagan was wrong to do so, but YOUR OWN PEOPLE said this about him...

Psst.. I am a registered Republican but I know ..I know... in YOUR new GOP I am just a perceived RINO just like St Ronald( I voted for him) or Senator Goldwater( I would have voted for him) or Nixon (I voted for him)... there is no longer any room for anyone not rabidly fringe right in the NEO-GOP. I am left to vote for Moderate Democrats, perhaps a Moderate Republican on the local level that is less repugnant than some whacky local Democrat Or Libertarian candidates in many cases because the GOP candidate is utterly repugnant.

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"The Democratic-controlled United States Congress issued its own report on November 18, 1987, stating that "If the president did not know what his national security advisers were doing, he should have".[9] The congressional report wrote that the president bore "ultimate responsibility" for wrongdoing by his aides, and his administration exhibited "secrecy, deception and disdain for the law"

I think they realized by that point that he was asleep at the wheel and it would have damaged our country to go after him in his diminished capacity that the worst of those in his administration were indeed out of control. That was still a Congress that could work together for the good of the country and GOVERN unlike this Tea infested GOP dysfunctional cesspool where the largest turds have risen to prominence.

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Sounds like about a two dozen things Obama has done in office doesnt it?

Well that does seem to be a theme on FAUX News... and if you tell a series of lies to the weak of mind over and over and over and over and over... they do appear to believe it

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Back to the matter at hand.

Well if you say so

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He was a deserter.

No.. he might have been AWOL... a bright boy like you should know the difference. By the time limit that usually applies to desertion he was a captive of the Taliban. Was he a dumbass who went outside the wire so to speak.. hell yeah.

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Possible laws were broken.

Do we as a people leave our people on the battlefield???
I would say a commander in chief did what he had to do to get the ONLY US Soldier in that hands of the Taliban to return. And the Tea Infestation would have crucified him had he not made the deal... I swear that FAUX listeners would run right out and start gobbling up yellow snow if the president told them not to.
As I said before...The IDF who are also loathe to leave their soldiers in the hands of terrorists commonly trade hundreds of terrorists for single IDF soldiers. They discovered that PLO or Hamas prisoners dying in prisons is really counter productive in the world of public opinion. They tend to like it when those same people do return to the battlefield where they can be dealt with. The 5 detainees are now out of GitMo.. if they return to the battlefield they can be dealt with... Hey there Mullah...Here have a Hellfire....No virgins for you....

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Even with your ONE example of not following the "no negotiations'' rule you cant sit there and tell me that is not our usual M.O. to not deal with them can you?

There are plenty more... reality has a way of trumping the blithering of outdated homilies that have no basis in that thing called reality in a rather reality based world.

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Our hard line dealings with terrorists was damaged. (again if you must make me say it)

I think this president has done a pretty good job of dealing with terrorists...by delegating and allowing the people who know how.... to do their jobs.

[normiss 622]

Given the way the Geneva Convention applies to POW swaps, I think our administration has declared them all POW's.

After all the effort they have put into VEHEMENTLY refusing they were anything but terrorists and illegal enemy combatants.

This may have really fucked us with international relations. The few we have intact anyway.

[propblast 0]

Andy9o8

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Do you think every member of his unit is lying? Do you think all those reports are false?

Do you have problems with comprehending what I've written?

Nope.

Bet I am right.

Propblast

[BillyVance 34]

normiss

Thoughts on U.S. law that requires the administration to give Congress notice 30 days before releasing any detainees from the military prison at Guantanamo Bay that was ignored?

Nothing an Executive Order couldn't circumvent..... Just sayin'

I have no idea if one was issued though.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[mirage62 0]

That is true John, that he has not been convicted.... If you've read my post I have noted that I am doubtful of Obama making such a bad deal.

Btw can you provide cred links to prove that the charges against Kerry (swift boating) were PROVED to be untrue? I'd like to read them.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[RonD1120 58]

mirage62

That is true John, that he has not been convicted.... If you've read my post I have noted that I am doubtful of Obama making such a bad deal.

Btw can you provide cred links to prove that the charges against Kerry (swift boating) were PROVED to be untrue? I'd like to read them.

I've never seen a report that proved Kerry innocent. He was/is an opportunist and has played it well.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rushmc 18]

billvon

>The four killed at Benghazi were honorably fighting for their lives.

So embassy workers killed by terrorists bomb were heroes - because that hurts Obama.

>It appears that Bergdahl was a traitor, deserter or AWOL.

So a US soldier captured by the enemy is a traitor - because if he was a hero that might help Obama. And you will do anything to avoid that.

Glad I don't live in your world, and I am glad for the sake of our soldiers that most people don't share your worldview.

Bill
He walked off his post
Left his rifle and pack and walked off
5 died looking for one who went AWOL

Is this serving with distinction and honor?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[TriGirl 277]

And does that mean he deserved what he got? At least two separate issues, IMHO. And it isn't all just black and white. Several elements at play here, not just "traitor" or "hero." Lots of issues, each having many shades of grey.

(Rush -- you were just the last one in the thread. Not just directed at your comments, but your list was a convenient launching point)

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[rushmc 18]

TriGirl

And does that mean he deserved what he got? At least two separate issues, IMHO. And it isn't all just black and white. Several elements at play here, not just "traitor" or "hero." Lots of issues, each having many shades of grey.

(Rush -- you were just the last one in the thread. Not just directed at your comments, but your list was a convenient launching point)

I think this is getting clearer by the day
The Pentagon knew his location
they would not risk a rescue for a deserter

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/2/pentagon-knew-berghdahls-whereabouts-but-didnt-ris/

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EXCLUSIVE: Pentagon knew Bergdahl’s whereabouts but didn’t risk rescue for ‘deserter’

Special operations troops deemed too valuable to lose

this whole thing stinks
And Obama is behind this stink bomb
I just can not understand why....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

this one should be right in your wheel house

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Chinese General: U.S. Foreign Policy Has 'Erectile Dysfunction' Problems...

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/06/02/chinese-general-says-u-s-foreign-policy-has-erectile-dysfunction-problems/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 0]

Chinese? Making penis jokes? I could get 10 pages of material out of that one.

[kallend 1,635]

mirage62

That is true John, that he has not been convicted.... If you've read my post I have noted that I am doubtful of Obama making such a bad deal.

Btw can you provide cred links to prove that the charges against Kerry (swift boating) were PROVED to be untrue? I'd like to read them.

Well, since it turns out that only ONE of the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth [sic]" actually served with Kerry, and none of the others who badmouthed him did, and other vets who DID serve with Kerry contradicted the "Truthers", it seems pretty clear that it was just a well orchestrated and well funded smear campaign.

In September 2004, Vice Admiral Ronald A. Route, the Navy Inspector General, completed a review of Kerry's combat medals, initiated at the request of Judicial Watch. In a memo to Secretary of the Navy Gordon R. England, Route stated:

Our examination found that existing documentation regarding the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals indicates the awards approval process was properly followed. In particular, the senior officers who awarded the medals were properly delegated authority to do so. In addition, we found that they correctly followed the procedures in place at the time for approving these awards. Conducting any additional review regarding events that took place over 30 years ago would not be productive. The passage of time would make reconstruction of the facts and circumstances unreliable, and would not allow the information gathered to be considered in the context of the time in which the events took place. Our review also considered the fact that Senator Kerry's post-active duty activities were public and that military and civilian officials were aware of his actions at the time. For these reasons, I have determined that Senator Kerry's awards were properly approved and will take no further action in this matter.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[regulator 0]

TriGirl

And does that mean he deserved what he got? At least two separate issues, IMHO. And it isn't all just black and white. Several elements at play here, not just "traitor" or "hero." Lots of issues, each having many shades of grey.

(Rush -- you were just the last one in the thread. Not just directed at your comments, but your list was a convenient launching point)

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Let's just stop that right here. I cannot decide if he was a traitor until he has his military trial. However the whole 'hero' talk about this asshat deserter where 5 men died trying to find him...5 BETTER men that is. Yeah hero should never be mentioned in his presence. That moniker should only be associated with the 5 men that died while trying to find this deserter.

[propblast 0]

Can we not muddy the waters on this. John Kerry has very little to do with BB.

Time will tell. BB deserted his post. He went to the enemy. He is back.

Propblast

[Bertt 0]

1. American soldiers need to know that their country will do what it takes to get them home. That's worth a lot under any circumstances.
2. Congress can't do anything without attaching a bill to repeal Obamacare. Mitch McConnell is still trying to make Obama a one-term president. I've gotta cut the Administration some slack when it comes to notifying or working with Congress.
3. Obama has never shown negotiating skill or a particular reliance on facts, so it's entirely believable that his administration had all the facts and still made the decision they did.
4. Getting accused by the FBI (Richard Jewell, et. al.) is a lot different than getting accused by your own squad members.
5. The prisoners who were traded can make the Taliban marginally more effective. A drone strike can make them marginally less effective. Don't worry about it.
6. B's activities need to be investigated. We would all be better off if the news media and the administration would be guided more by facts and less by politics and opinions.

I know; that last sentence comes from a fantasy world. OK, gotta go feed the Unicorn. Carry on.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[Andy9o8 0]

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BB deserted his post. He went to the enemy.

It's also possible that, for example, he stupidly wandered off by himself, not intending it to be permanent (which is the less serious offense of AWOL, not the more serious offense of desertion), and then got his ass captured before he could clear his head and get back to the right side of the wire* - which is not "going" to the enemy. Shades of grey, dude. Embrace them.

(*which is the scenario I'm increasingly thinking may be likely)

[normiss 622]

How clueless are you?

Some of that drivel isn't anywhere near accurate nor true.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I cannot decide if he was a traitor until he has his military trial.

Fair enough - if the mil judges decide there's enough evidence to bring him to trial.

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this deserter.

Well, then you can't decide that until he has a trial, either.
"Deserter" is a specific term under the UCMJ. So is "AWOL/UA", and they're not the same. It saddens me to see how many ex-military personnel don't understand that, or choose to ignore it.

[propblast 0]

Andy9o8

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BB deserted his post. He went to the enemy.

It's also possible that, for example, he stupidly wandered off by himself, not intending it to be permanent (which is the less serious offense of AWOL, not the more serious offense of desertion), and then got his ass captured before he could clear his head and get back to the right side of the wire* - which is not "going" to the enemy. Shades of grey, dude. Embrace them.

(*which is the scenario I'm increasingly thinking may be likely)

It is not possible. He left, in a combat zone. Off a combat base. By himself. You have to understand how soldiers are accounted for and work. It doesnt even pass a smell test.

I understand your want for him to be a freed POW. The fact of the matter is he wasnt.

Propblast

[propblast 0]

Andy9o8

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I cannot decide if he was a traitor until he has his military trial.

Fair enough - if the mil judges decide there's enough evidence to bring him to trial.

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this deserter.

Well, then you can't decide that until he has a trial, either.
"Deserter" is a specific term under the UCMJ. So is "AWOL/UA", and they're not the same. It saddens me to see how many ex-military personnel don't understand that, or choose to ignore it.

Absolutely under Article 85 and 86 as I stated above.

Again we will see and I am willing to bet I am right.

Propblast

[normiss 622]

"Enough evidence"?

How do I present any evidence when you forced me to sign a NDA???

[Andy9o8 0]

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I understand your want for him to be a freed POW.

I have no such "want". I understand your "want" for everyone who doesn't agree with you to be painted with that "agenda"; it's standard "us-vs.-them" politics-think. Fact is, I'm simply thinking this through like a lawyer, based on evidence and UCMJ statute, as I've been trained to do as someone who's been a litigator longer than half the people in this thread have been alive.

You're thinking about this the way it's being tried in the court of public opinion. I'm thinking about it the way it will be viewed and handled, if need be, in a military court. And at the end of the day, it's the latter way that will decide.

[Andy9o8 0]

normiss

How do I present any evidence when you forced me to sign a NDA???

Hey, shaddap. That's not what I'm forcing you not to disclose.