billvon 2,426 #51 January 28, 2014 >45,000 miles of interstate...where will we get the electricity? Solar, wind, hydro, tidal, nuclear, natural gas peakers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #52 January 28, 2014 >I chuckle a bit when I hear you Teslaterians say you get the electricity for free. I get mine for free. But if you want to pay whatever your utility demands, I support your right to do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 388 #53 January 28, 2014 So,your post has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Got it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 388 #54 January 28, 2014 billvon >I chuckle a bit when I hear you Teslaterians say you get the electricity for free. I get mine for free. But if you want to pay whatever your utility demands, I support your right to do that. Wow, You have my attention now. I just sent a $783 check to my utility company (thanks to global warming induced cooling ). Just how do I get some of this "free" electricity? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #55 January 28, 2014 brenthutch Wow, You have my attention now. I just sent a $783 check to my utility company (thanks to global warming induced cooling ). Just how do I get some of this "free" electricity? first, you fork out money for the solar panels. then you fork out the money for installation and the system. now, some of this you get paid for by your neighbors - they paid taxes and you get the subsidy also, you have maintenance I think it's a great deal once the neighbors don't have to pay for part of it (but it's not free, but it's likely a very smart investment for those that can use for a long enough period to get their money back on it) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base698 1 #56 January 28, 2014 It costs under $4 to go 265 miles and free when you fill up at a Tesla station. It's much cheaper than gas per mile even if you compare it to a hybrid. My argument is when they fix inefficiencies in their manufacturing process and have a robust super charger infrastructure. This would enable a cost compatible car and free maintenance. Why would you buy a car at the same price point that has to throw away $30k over the life of the car on gas with oil changes and breakable parts that electric vehicles don't have? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,646 #57 January 28, 2014 brenthutch So,your post has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Got it. It was a response to an error in the description of properties of electric motors as traction devices, so it had everything to do with the thread. You really have a hard time dealing with factual information.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 388 #58 January 28, 2014 Sorry, I misread Again my apologies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #59 January 28, 2014 >Just how do I get some of this "free" electricity? Buy a house with a solar power system on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #60 January 28, 2014 >first, you fork out money for the solar panels. then you fork out the money for >installation and the system. Did that for my first system. When we bought our house three years ago it came with a system on it. That's happening more and more often here; almost 10% of San Diego homes now have solar on them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 198 #61 January 28, 2014 billvon>Just how do I get some of this "free" electricity? Buy a house with a solar power system on it. Are you off the grid or just subsidizing?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #62 January 28, 2014 >Are you off the grid or just subsidizing? Both. I can drop the grid as needed (setting up to do this as a trial.) Most of the time I am grid tied. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #63 January 28, 2014 billvon>I chuckle a bit when I hear you Teslaterians say you get the electricity for free. I get mine for free. But if you want to pay whatever your utility demands, I support your right to do that. How much exactly did it cost you to get it for free? What was the upfront payment, and what is the maintenance cost of your free electricity?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #64 January 28, 2014 base698It costs under $4 to go 265 miles and free when you fill up at a Tesla station. well, it's free if you've already written off the huge up front cost, yes. I do that myself with wine - once purchased, it is 'free' to drink. But it's hard to miss the 3-4000/year expenditure. Or the 80-100k price for most of the Teslas. They are providing these 'free' charge stations to promote establish the brand. If successful, at some point those stations will likely cease to be free, or the cost will be added to the sales prices of the car (much as Amazon charges more for the cellular kindles versus wifi). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #65 January 28, 2014 >How much exactly did it cost you to get it for free? My current system? Nothing. Came with the house, which we also got for a screamin' deal. >What was the upfront payment Zero. >and what is the maintenance cost of your free electricity? Zero. New systems, however, are now running around $4/watt installed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base698 1 #66 January 28, 2014 It's still a quarter of the cost of gas and less if you are paying for it yourself. They have a $30K version in the works. They can hit that price point even if batteries don't get cheaper. Buying the Model S is not about saving money. Buying an EV in a few years may be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #67 January 28, 2014 base698It's still a quarter of the cost of gas and less if you are paying for it yourself. They have a $30K version in the works. They can hit that price point even if batteries don't get cheaper. that is the hopeful outcome. But at that price, those charges won't be free. They'll be the $4. Which is hardly awful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #68 January 29, 2014 billvon >How much exactly did it cost you to get it for free? My current system? Nothing. Came with the house, which we also got for a screamin' deal. >What was the upfront payment Zero. >and what is the maintenance cost of your free electricity? Zero. New systems, however, are now running around $4/watt installed. So even though it came "with the house", you don't think you paid for it?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #69 January 29, 2014 >So even though it came "with the house", you don't think you paid for it? Right. My additional cost for it was zero. The house was well below market. OTOH, someone else might pay more for a house with solar. On average a seller in a decent market can get up to $20,000 more for a house with solar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #70 January 29, 2014 billvon >So even though it came "with the house", you don't think you paid for it? Right. My additional cost for it was zero. The house was well below market. OTOH, someone else might pay more for a house with solar. On average a seller in a decent market can get up to $20,000 more for a house with solar. OK, so the paint on the house didn't cost anything either, it came with the house. The roof didn't cost anything either. I guess the street in front of my house didn't cost anything, it was there when I bought the house.Everything costs something.In order for it to be free to you, you would have had to have had someone do the supply and installation pro-bono. Yeah, you may have gotten a good deal for the house, you can probably thank Madoff for that, but you paid something for the electrical system in your house, even if it wasn't a separate line item, or specific individual cost.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #71 January 29, 2014 >Everything costs something. You are looking for a rig. A guy at your DZ tries to sell you a Mirage with a Sabre 2 and a Cypres. "Only 3000! Perfect shape," he says. "But I'm gonna keep the Cypres for my next rig." "No," you say. "OK, then $2800. Please, I really need the money." "No," you say. "$2500 and that's my last offer." "OK," you say. "OK, great! That really helps me out. And you can keep the Cypres." How much did the Cypres cost you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #72 January 29, 2014 billvon>Everything costs something. You are looking for a rig. A guy at your DZ tries to sell you a Mirage with a Sabre 2 and a Cypres. "Only 3000! Perfect shape," he says. "But I'm gonna keep the Cypres for my next rig." "No," you say. "OK, then $2800. Please, I really need the money." "No," you say. "$2500 and that's my last offer." "OK," you say. "OK, great! That really helps me out. And you can keep the Cypres." How much did the Cypres cost you? So it happened like this to you? You are looking for a house. A guy at your DZ tries to sell you a 4 bedroom, with a garage and a self supporting electrical system. "Only 300000! Perfect shape," he says. "But I'm gonna keep the solar panels and battery storage for my next house." "No," you say. "OK, then $280000. Please, I really need the money." "No," you say. "$250000 and that's my last offer." "OK," you say. "OK, great! That really helps me out. And you can keep the electrical system." Interesting. Well, Anyway . . . Assuming house size is 3200SF, and 4 Watts per Square foot . . . All that free electricity costs about $51,000 US to start.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #73 January 29, 2014 >So it happened like this to you? Similar. We backed out of the deal several times because we didn't need the house (was perfectly happy in our current house) and they were being jerks. At one point he said "well, if you won't pay X, we're going to remove the solar system." "OK," we said. We closed and they decided it was too much trouble to take it with them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #74 January 29, 2014 billvon>So it happened like this to you? Similar. We backed out of the deal several times because we didn't need the house (was perfectly happy in our current house) and they were being jerks. At one point he said "well, if you won't pay X, we're going to remove the solar system." "OK," we said. We closed and they decided it was too much trouble to take it with them. Good for you. Great negotiations. The normal start up for a 3200 SF house is still about 50K. If your bill is 300/mo. . . it would take you about 14 years to get ANY return on the investment.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #75 January 29, 2014 >If your bill is 300/mo. . . it would take you about 14 years to get ANY return on >the investment. Pretty close. The numbers in the San Diego market are around 11 years payback for a large system without any incentives. Smaller systems have faster payback due to the tiered rate structure. (Down to about 3000 watts; below that costs go up again due to scaling issues.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
