Ohio death penalty: untested drugs

[swilson 0]

I'm not interested in arguing for or against the death penalty, or whether the death penalty is warranted in this case. The need to use "untested" drugs to replace pentobarbital is the interesting bit. Can anyone explain why, when the regular drugs are no longer available, the sentence cannot be carried out using other methods that are known to be effective?

For example, a regular mask, with 100% nitrogen will achieve the same result. It costs very nearly nothing and it's very effective and humane. Assuming the act takes place in a well-ventilated room, when the sentence has been carried out, just turn off the gas and wait a few minutes, and a simple measuring instrument will tell you when the oxygen level in the room is safe; there are no toxic residual gases.

Is it because it's too simple? Serious question.

[yoink 321]

No idea whether it has anything to do with the real reason, but a number of years ago I watched a BBC documentary talking about hypoxia as a method of death sentence.

Many, MANY of the members of the public interviewed about it, after it was explained, thought that it was too easy and 'nice'... that the punished should suffer in some way, and that checking out on a high wasn't enough punishment.

Personally, it made me feel sick.

[normiss 622]

I prefer no death penalty.
Period.

[regulator 0]

I don't understand how since now the drug concoction is no longer available they can't use other methods. I would think hypoxia should be a viable option.

[PiLFy 0]

My guess would be its being controlled by bureaucracy. The Drugs are expensive. The personnel needed are also not cheap. Most of us know how much cheaper common hardball is. I personally still prefer the rope. An added bonus of which, is the rope being reusable.

But, no. The hypocrisy of some, needing to think they're more civilized than an animal who murdered innocents. Lethal injection is designed to be painless & humane. The Inmate is first rendered unconscious, before stopping their breathing & heart. It's only when they use incompetent staff who screw up the IVs, that you hear of painful deaths. Clearly, Human history is full of alternate methods which are more effective.

[normiss 622]

Effective at what exactly?

It certainly isn't reducing any crime.

[PiLFy 0]

normiss

Effective at what exactly?

It certainly isn't reducing any crime.

As per the OP, we're not arguing the death penalty. He's curious about the efficacy of alternative methods.

[normiss 622]

Which is what I asked.

[PiLFy 0]

normiss

Which is what I asked.

Wrong. Man, take it up w/someone else. I'm going to bed.

[grimmie 173]

I wonder why Ohio is experimenting with a new option. The Brookfield, Ohio dirtbag Kenneth Biros was executed a while back with Sodium Thiopental.
I went to high school with him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/08/biros-execution-kenneth-b_n_384409.html

[strife 0]

supply issues manufacturers dont want it used in executions

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

For example, a regular mask, with 100% nitrogen will achieve the same result

Because Americans who support the DP don't want the DP to be about just justice there has to be an element of vengeance to it as well. The offender slipping happily into an unconscious state before death just doesn't cut the mustard.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rehmwa 2]

Skyrad

Quote

For example, a regular mask, with 100% nitrogen will achieve the same result

Because Americans who support the DP don't want the DP to be about just justice there has to be an element of vengeance to it as well. The offender slipping happily into an unconscious state before death just doesn't cut the mustard.

justice is about removing the threat of repeated crimes. not vengeance, not closure, not rehab, not all those other things - DP, incarceration, etc etc etc.....

I doubt your assumption is even close to the majority of this group you have stereotyped as a one size fits all "Americans who support DP"

typical for a bloodthirsty, bad teeth, nasty food eating, world conquering Brit, though (see what I did there?) - was it France and England with the public executions? I have to assume you are projecting your own tendencies on the discussion. (oops, I did it again)

((for real - I don't believe that of you, I can't speak about any Brit I haven't yet met, so I won't put them in a lazy stereotyped bucket. I doubt you believe that about me))

Frankly, the only documentary I ever saw had a Brit whack another Brit on the head, just so they could put him in the 'dead' cart. Horrible stuff really.

I'm also distressed about your proposal to kill criminal with mustard - that's a new one.


I guess if someone wants to 'make the audience' "FEEL" better - and if they really are so bent on seeing pain - I'd say this: attach a bunch of electrodes to the nervous system - (kill the criminal painlessly and cheaply) - then stimulate the dead corpse to thrash about for a couple minutes - to give those nasty sadists a bit of "closure"

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

I'm also distressed about your proposal to kill criminal with mustard - that's a new one.

You really are too funny.


As for the rest of the nonsense, watch this and then get back to me. It might shed a different light on where and how I formed my opinion. (Its also pretty interesting).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAmu3DXk5c

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[mistercwood 287]

Skyrad

Quote

I'm also distressed about your proposal to kill criminal with mustard - that's a new one.

You really are too funny.


As for the rest of the nonsense, watch this and then get back to me. It might shed a different light on where and how I formed my opinion. (Its also pretty interesting).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAmu3DXk5c

That was a very interesting watch, thanks for sharing...

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[PiLFy 0]

Skyrad

Quote

I'm also distressed about your proposal to kill criminal with mustard - that's a new one.

You really are too funny.


As for the rest of the nonsense, watch this and then get back to me. It might shed a different light on where and how I formed my opinion. (Its also pretty interesting).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAmu3DXk5c

I just watched ten minutes of that vid. Political propaganda from a politician? What a surprise... It only proves that politician's agenda, & yours.

[rickjump1 0]

Skyrad

Quote

I'm also distressed about your proposal to kill criminal with mustard - that's a new one.

You really are too funny.


As for the rest of the nonsense, watch this and then get back to me. It might shed a different light on where and how I formed my opinion. (Its also pretty interesting).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAmu3DXk5c

You guys wrote the book on torture and methods of execution for centuries, and now you are suddenly aware that some child rapist murderer (only an example) might suffer from a little mishap? Chopping their heads off the English way would alleviate this little problem.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[mistercwood 287]

PiLFy

***

Quote

I'm also distressed about your proposal to kill criminal with mustard - that's a new one.

You really are too funny.


As for the rest of the nonsense, watch this and then get back to me. It might shed a different light on where and how I formed my opinion. (Its also pretty interesting).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAmu3DXk5c

I just watched ten minutes of that vid. Political propaganda from a politician? What a surprise... It only proves that politician's agenda, & yours.

Which agenda? The "if the state is going to kill people, let's ensure it's as humane as possible" agenda? Yes, he shits all over the existing methods as not living up to acceptable standards. If you then watched more than ten minutes, you'd see he then identifies hypoxia (as previously listed by others here) as the perfect execution method - cheap, clean, easy to administer, and with no pain or distress for the subject.

Viewed across its entirety, I don't believe the doco had a strong opinion for or against the DP at all.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[PiLFy 0]

"Viewed across its entirety, I don't believe the doco had a strong opinion for or against the DP at all."

Fair Enough. I'm not interested in watching the entire thing. He comes across as being pretty biased against the DP. He wants to make the deaths pain-free. I don't. There are plenty of ways to kill a person. They're cheap, fast, & highly effective. If Bureaucratic BS is in the way? Move it...

[skydiver30960 0]

swilson

...For example, a regular mask, with 100% nitrogen will achieve the same result. It costs very nearly nothing and it's very effective and humane....

Is it because it's too simple? Serious question.

Simple and cheap as hell? Definitely. Humane? I'm not so sure. Suffocation is suffocation: your body will notice that it's getting hypercarbic and (later) hypoxic, and you'll start to breathe very fast to compensate, get panicked, and be pretty distressed before you finally lose consciousness.

A really great example of this kind of action is in the movie The Andromeda Strain: to mimic a monkey dying quickly after exposure to the alien superbug, they put him in a room filled with carbon dioxide and filmed the results. They stop filming the scene and rushed in with oxygen to save the monkey after it passed out, but the footage of its distress and gasping for air is actually a little hard to watch when you realize how they accomplished it. Here's the clip, but watch with caution if you're squeamish:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt6Vci9H3ds


NOW, let's talk about that "unproven" 2-drug combination. Versed and Dilaudid?! HOLY SHITSNACKS! If I was placed in the Socrates-like situation of being able to choose my own method of death, this would definitely be on the short list considered (right after death by Snu-snu). Dilaudid is probably the #1 most demanded medication by drug seekers in EDs everywhere for a reason: it's a powerful opiate agonist guaranteed to having you feeling NO pain. Versed isn't as much a drug of abuse itself just because it isn't generally available in pill form, but it's in the same class as Valium and Prozac, causing sleep and amnesia. Versed is a VERY common medication prior to hospital procedures for just this reason. Ever had a surgical procedure, and the doc or RN gives you something in your IV that suddenly has you feeling INCREDIBLE? Yep, versed.

So, each on their own, they'll make you feel great and also depress your CNS and respiratory drive. Together, they'll knock you the fuck right out. Just a little too much and you'll stop breathing long enough to shuffle loose this mortal coil.

And don't sweat the cost: a fatal dose of these two medications would probably run the taxpayers about $20, total.

SO, if as ordered by the OP we aren't discussing the morality of the DP and just discussing the "how," I could come up with about a MILLION less-preferred methods that a Versed/Dilaudid overdose.

Elvisio "Say 'fuck' to my medic partner one more time, and you'll be chewing plastic" Rodriguez

[FreefallingCari 0]

I am a Nurse, so I had to comment.

PROZAC is an SSRI antidepressant, it is not in the same class as valuim, versed, or Benzodiazepines.

THERE, I feel much better!

Although the drugs are untested, medically speaking they are in a class which causes amnesia and loss of pain sensation. This would create a painless death.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[swilson 0]

skydiver30960

Simple and cheap as hell? Definitely. Humane? I'm not so sure. Suffocation is suffocation: your body will notice that it's getting hypercarbic and (later) hypoxic, and you'll start to breathe very fast to compensate, get panicked, and be pretty distressed before you finally lose consciousness.

Our bodies are wired to respond to hypercarbia by increasing the breathing rate and triggering other muscle responses in an effort to correct the situation, resulting in panic and distress (our suffocation response).

The body has no such response to hypoxia.

I have been hypoxic on a 23k foot skydive, and there was no distress. If you watch Skyrad's link from 32 minutes on (or any other hypobaric chamber test), there is no distress.

At 42 minutes in Skyrad's link, there was a test with pigs, comparing CO2 to nitrogen. CO2, predictably, caused distress, while nitrogen did not.

[Skyrad 0]

PiLFy

***

Quote

I'm also distressed about your proposal to kill criminal with mustard - that's a new one.

You really are too funny.


As for the rest of the nonsense, watch this and then get back to me. It might shed a different light on where and how I formed my opinion. (Its also pretty interesting).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAmu3DXk5c

I just watched ten minutes of that vid. Political propaganda from a politician? What a surprise... It only proves that politician's agenda, & yours.

The only thing that proves is your attention span.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

rickjump1

***

Quote

I'm also distressed about your proposal to kill criminal with mustard - that's a new one.

You really are too funny.


As for the rest of the nonsense, watch this and then get back to me. It might shed a different light on where and how I formed my opinion. (Its also pretty interesting).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAmu3DXk5c

You guys wrote the book on torture and methods of execution for centuries, and now you are suddenly aware that some child rapist murderer (only an example) might suffer from a little mishap? Chopping their heads off the English way would alleviate this little problem.

Rick, I'm pro DP. So take your preconceptions and predjudices and stick them where the sun don't shine.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rickjump1 0]

Skyrad

******

Quote

I'm also distressed about your proposal to kill criminal with mustard - that's a new one.

You really are too funny.


As for the rest of the nonsense, watch this and then get back to me. It might shed a different light on where and how I formed my opinion. (Its also pretty interesting).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAmu3DXk5c

You guys wrote the book on torture and methods of execution for centuries, and now you are suddenly aware that some child rapist murderer (only an example) might suffer from a little mishap? Chopping their heads off the English way would alleviate this little problem.

Rick, I'm pro DP. So take your preconceptions and predjudices and stick them where the sun don't shine.It's too cold to do that.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.