Libertarianism, race, and gender

[wmw999 2,136]

Interesting opinion piece in "The New Republic."

Basically, it says that 94% of libertarians are non-Hispanic whites, and 68% are men.

Interesting how it's the demographic with an historical edge in the US feel the most strongly that they don't need to worry about the bottom as much as about the top. Equally interesting how (at least in my experience), there are far more male than female homeless, so maybe it's not entirely accurate.

The world isn't necessarily a zero-sum game, but all you have to do is read some of the posts here to see that for some people, any interaction is better if they end up with the other guy losing (I guess they think it makes their point better).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[chemist 0]

which is strange considering minorities and hispanics tend to receive government oppression at higher rates than white males.

[turtlespeed 212]

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there are far more male than female homeless

There are many more social reasons for that.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,136]

The point is that men tend to ignore the possibility that those social reasons might apply to themselves.

Until (and unless) they do

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DanG 1]

I voted Libertarian for the first time last week. I didn't agree with the fiscal plans of the candidate, but I did agree with his social stances. Voting for a party doesn't mean you agree with all of the planks in their platform.

- Dan G

[wmw999 2,136]

To me there's a huge difference between voting for a Libertarian and "being" a Libertarian -- just as there is for Republicans, Democrats, and everyone else. I've voted for plenty, and I believe I'm female , and rather doubt that some of our harder-core Libertarians would consider me to be one of them.

Thought it was an interesting article, hoped it'd get some interesting thought-out discussion going.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[toolbox 0]

50 years ago minorities may have been oppressed but not now.
The illegal immigrants from Hispanic countries for instance get far better treatment than white illegal immigrants.

[DanG 1]

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The illegal immigrants from Hispanic countries for instance get far better treatment than white illegal immigrants.

How so?

- Dan G

[DanG 1]

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...I believe I'm female ...

Prove it

- Dan G

[kelpdiver 2]

DanG

I voted Libertarian for the first time last week. I didn't agree with the fiscal plans of the candidate, but I did agree with his social stances. Voting for a party doesn't mean you agree with all of the planks in their platform.

this sense of Am I a Libertarian or not could be an explanation for the gender difference. Or it could just be that women have a harder time with that silly and unrealistic no public education plank. Whenever you see a local school bond measure on the ballot, the Libertarian Party writes the opposition piece.

[toolbox 0]

I was witness to a fender bender involving a ford explorer with 10 illegal Hispanics inside,and a new scion with 2 white guys inside.
The cops came and realized that all the people in the explorer were undocumented illegal immigrants.
The cops then call the DOT to come and fix the blown tire on the explorer and get them back on the road.
Eric,the driver of the scion asked the cop for the explorer drivers license and insurance imformation so he could get the scions destroyed bumper and right fender fixed.
That cop told Eric while I was standing next to him that the driver and all the passengers of the explorer were illegals and that he was shit out of luck.
Meanwhile the explorer drove away with a new tire and rim at the tax payers expense with all 10 illegal immigrants on board.

2 years later in Colorado,I watched a visiting white male skydiver who over stayed his visa by 2 days because he got stranded in the snow get handcuffed and taken away for being in the country illegally.
He was held in jail for 2 more days before being deported.

[turtlespeed 212]

wmw999

and I believe I'm female ,

See - you just negated your entire argument.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 3]

I want ask those same people who self-identify as "libertarians" to define it and see what they come up with as answers. My guess is the vast majority aren't "libertarians" in the true sense, but are instead simply disenfranchised by the Republicans (unable to identify with the old-school [actually responsible] ideas of Republicans) and also can't call themselves Democrats under any circumstances.

I've heard it described this way,
"A libertarian is a selfish anarchist with a bit of money."

A bit glib, but I don't think all that far off the mark for a lot of them.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DanG 1]

Sorry, but your anecdote about the apparently insane actions of one local cop doesn't sway me that hispanic illegals are generally treated better than white ones. How do you think it would have gone down if the Explorer had been filled with an illegal bunch of Swedes? You don't know, and neither do I.

As far as the white skydiver overstaying his visa, are you sure it would have happened differently if the jumper were from Venezuela?

- Dan G

[toolbox 0]

The first incident with the 10 hispanics involved two nevada state troopers and a DOT worker.
Repeat,two Nevada state troopers and a Nevada state DOT worker.
Minorities were oppressed in the past,but that is no longer the case in the US.
I do believe that branding libertarians as mostly racist white men is racist in itself.
I know there are more than a few women and minorities who are libertarians.
Probably not many illegal immigrant libertarians though.

[wmw999 2,136]

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I do believe that branding libertarians as mostly racist white men is racist in itself.

They're reporting the results of polls taken by self-identified libertarians; that's not racist.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[davjohns 1]

wmw999

Quote

I do believe that branding libertarians as mostly racist white men is racist in itself.

They're reporting the results of polls taken by self-identified libertarians; that's not racist.

Wendy P.

I must have missed the part where they were described as racist.

I thought about this article some. I think the writer is clearly liberal and had a bit of an agenda. The ending where he applauds women for supporting a societal safety net was pretty telling.

My issue with it is that it is so pessimistic...particularly about women. It says that most people will fail. Why? If we are to believe a bell-shaped curve, most will be fine. Some will do well. Some will not. This author rejects that and says most people in society need saving...particularly women.

That's my biggest issue with Affirmative Action and the like. It seems to assume women / minorities are inferior and need a boost to be competitive. I just don't buy that.

If women truly don't care for libertarian ideals because they are afraid of failure, are we teaching them wrong, or is there some inherent fear they can't overcome? What is the issue with minorities?

I could obviously argue that the social safety net makes some people comfortable, so they are not inspired to achieve great things. My idea of libertarian is that removing the fear of failure (inspiration) and taxing away the rewards of achievement, leads to a societal stagnation. So, the safety net should not leave anyone comfortable enough to stay there, and the taxation should not discourage achievement. The individual should be free to soar or fail as they choose. Meanwhile, everyone should stay out of everyone else's business as long as nobody is being hurt.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[wmw999 2,136]

I guess I don't see it as they're expecting to fail, as much as they see that it's possible. To me, at least, the social safety net is insurance, much like the homeowner's, health, car, and motorcycle insurance. I hope not to use it, but it's there if I need it. And I know that my actions can contribute to my need, or it can happen even if I work my ass off.

And yeah, The New Republic is a liberal magazine, but in the classic sense, not in the "the 1% are the scum of the earth and Lenin rules" sense.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)