BHO's bogus birth correction: He made it up!

[RonD1120 58]

The111

***Now truthfully, since you are not a Christian you don't know what a Christ-like attitude should be.

A 2nd grade education (i.e. literacy) and a few hours with a bible can inform anyone of what Christ's attitude was like. No belief in magic required.

One thing I did notice was that Jesus did not spend much time bitching about his "enemies," or cleaning/preparing his weapons for the glorious day he'd get to use said weapons on said enemies.

You need to read my post again. You missed a few important points. An adolescent mind is like that. Hang in there, it will probably become more clear as you near forty.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rwieder 0]

Best-
RIchard

[billvon 2,402]

>Not THAT long ago, it was a fact that the world was flat.

No, see, that's the thing. In reality, it was always round. That's a fact, and it doesn't change no matter how much you spend on your messaging ads.

[billvon 2,402]

> It is impossible for a libertarian to have a really serious discussion with a
>progressive liberal. As the old saying goes, you can't negotiate with someone who
>wants you destroyed.

And yet gays are able to have serious discussions with republicans. (Heck, many ARE republicans.) Perhaps it just takes some life experience to get a little perspective.

[RonD1120 58]

billvon

> It is impossible for a libertarian to have a really serious discussion with a
>progressive liberal. As the old saying goes, you can't negotiate with someone who
>wants you destroyed.

And yet gays are able to have serious discussions with republicans. (Heck, many ARE republicans.) Perhaps it just takes some life experience to get a little perspective.

That is what we are desiring. We want the progressive liberals to gain some life experience and not push blame on others and expect the government to make it OK.

However, God's judgment is upon us. Prepare for the worse you can imagine.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>Not THAT long ago, it was a fact that the world was flat.

No, see, that's the thing. In reality, it was always round. That's a fact, and it doesn't change no matter how much you spend on your messaging ads.

And perception is reality too.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rehmwa 2]

wmw999

When I was traveling in France in the late 1970's I identified myself as Brazilian more than once. Why? Because there had been a couple of well-publicized hotel-room trashings by Americans not too long before, and because it changed the nature of the conversations I engaged in with the locals. ....

Does that make me a poseur? Does that make me a fraud? Does that make me a self-hating American?

side note - I think it says a LOT about the narrow mindedness of those locals you were trying to placate, avoid confrontation with. They were so incredibly nationalistic and biased - so completely unable to treat people one at a time, so amazinging unable to give up their indoctrinated biases, that they couldn't take you as an individual - to the point, where you had to lie and pretend to be someone you weren't. It says so much about them. You never trashed any hotel rooms. yet they made you pay for it, regardless of how subtly you paid for it.

you only LET them do that to you

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

turtlespeed

***>Not THAT long ago, it was a fact that the world was flat.

No, see, that's the thing. In reality, it was always round. That's a fact, and it doesn't change no matter how much you spend on your messaging ads.

And perception is reality too.
no....perception is NOT reality. Unless it's perceiving actual reality. What you mean is that, many times, false perception can sometimes drive behavior and consequences more so than actual reality. At worst case, it's a statement about people and biases and obtuse and deliberate lack of reasoning. At best case, it's about people doing the best they can with false data....

But it doesn't change that you were making a very clear point about perception vs reality that Billvon purposely mis-interpreted so that he could tangentially lecture you from the pulpit and add in a little jab and try to belittle you.

I'm not sure what point either of you are making other than poking each other with sticks at this juncture. But, if you want to follow his lead, you should snarkily note right back to him that the world isn't "round" either - but an oblate spheroid. He can reply that even the oblate spheriod is approximate. You are on your own after that.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 18]

rehmwa

******>Not THAT long ago, it was a fact that the world was flat.

No, see, that's the thing. In reality, it was always round. That's a fact, and it doesn't change no matter how much you spend on your messaging ads.

And perception is reality too.
no....perception is NOT reality. Unless it's perceiving actual reality. What you mean is that, many times, false perception can sometimes drive behavior and consequences more so than actual reality. At worst case, it's a statement about people and biases and obtuse and deliberate lack of reasoning. At best case, it's about people doing the best they can with false data....

But it doesn't change that you were making a very clear point about perception vs reality that Billvon purposely mis-interpreted so that he could tangentially lecture you from the pulpit and add in a little jab and try to belittle you.

I'm not sure what point either of you are making other than poking each other with sticks at this juncture. But, if you want to follow his lead, you should snarkily note right back to him that the world isn't "round" either - but an oblate spheroid. He can reply that even the oblate spheriod is approximate. You are on your own after that.

First
I am going to avoid everything here but the perception is reality comment

I will say that perception IS reality

Because people react and think based on what their perception of reality is
You do it, I do it, everyone does it

Now, some can change, when their perception is changed by facts presented to them.

Many cant or refuse to

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

rushmc

I will say that perception IS reality

this is what you said: "Because people react and think based on what their perception of reality is"

this is what I said: "perception can sometimes drive behavior and consequences more so than actual reality. "

so what's your beef with my statement other than I'm not giving credence to the "direct read" as stupid quaint and false old and trite statement?

"perception" is NOT reality. the actions that occur due to false perception are reality - it's whole point of that crappy business quote and it's what people REALLY mean when they say it.

The statement is absolutely false - that's the PURPOSE of this little quote. It makes the point by it's very existence. It is most clearly stated as "Perception is not always reality, but it can strongly drive behavior as if it were."

The oversimplification of this particular false statement being true is the elegance and beauty of that chestnut and people have no clue that they are playing right into it.

edit: it's equivalent of the idiotic skydiving quote "Slow is Fast"....utter bullshit. It's a perception of the statement used to drive calm and smooth behavior, that may eventually make a team faster (note that neither 'calm' nor 'smooth' = fast). Fast = fast, slow = slow.

I hate that statement, we should directly train behavior instead of relying on false and trite cliches with the vague 'hope' that the real desired behavior will result. "slowing down now may result in faster performance later via correct application of arousal and execution" or even "hey asshole, stop trying so hard, you are not ready for it yet until you get a couple other things correct first"

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,124]

Quote

Now, some can change, when their perception is changed by facts presented to them.

However, since those facts are never presented in a vacuum (unless it's in court, and even then it's not really a vacuum), they are interpreted, and joined with all of the other facts that the person has access to and values.

For example -- you see a house on the corner that's wooden and white. Do you say it's white, or that it's white on at least 2 sides?

Do you think that the fact that some people oppose ACA is more important than the fact that some people are in favor of it?

In the case of scientific data, which scientists do you believe, or do you go get a PhD in that science so that you can evaluate the data appropriately? If I had cancer, I wouldn't be able to determine if interferon, vincristine or fallognopa was the right medication to use. I could google them, but that's kind of like relying on Wikipedia as my only source of data. I go to experts.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,124]

Quote

"perception" is NOT reality. the actions that occur due to false perception are reality - it's whole point of that crappy business quote and it's what people REALLY mean when they say it.

Yes, reality is reality. But how many of us can really understand the entire reality of anything? Or do we eliminate that which we don't think bears on the matter, and say that's reality?

Omission can change the interpretation of things just as much as lying.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RonD1120 58]

rushmc

First
I am going to avoid everything here but the perception is reality comment

I will say that perception IS reality

Because people react and think based on what their perception of reality is
You do it, I do it, everyone does it

Now, some can change, when their perception is changed by facts presented to them.

Many cant or refuse to

In the mental health field, perception = reality is the basis of diagnosis, treatment and therapy. The object being to help individuals learn to make socially acceptable decisions within their perceived reality.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rehmwa 2]

wmw999

Or do we eliminate that which we don't think bears on the matter, and say that's reality?

that's when you get glip statements from people like

" 'nuff said "

the ultimate expression of close minded ignorance

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 18]

I would state that perception rarely, if ever, lines up with reality

Wendy touched on this in her post

BTW, I do disagree with you

It is not false
But we may just be playing with symantics in end

At least that is my perception of it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

RonD1120

In the mental health field, perception = reality is the basis of diagnosis, treatment and therapy. The object being to help individuals learn to make socially acceptable decisions within their perceived reality.

and there is nothing wrong with that - but it's still not "perception = reality". it's "perception is used to drive behavior regardless of reality"

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

rushmc

But we may just be playing with symantics in end

it's a trite little quote to some people - comforting falsehood or a businessman's or politician's little motivator statement

I think it's worth understanding the basis of it as a way to understand how minds operate - it's very self identified falsehood is clearly a warning to people how easily manipulated people are

all bets are off when someone starts off saying the "earth was flat once....." if someone today truly believes that (turtle clearly didn't) then we get to explore why trite statements are so totally abused and improperly used.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[turtlespeed 212]

wmw999

Quote

"perception" is NOT reality. the actions that occur due to false perception are reality - it's whole point of that crappy business quote and it's what people REALLY mean when they say it.

Yes, reality is reality. But how many of us can really understand the entire reality of anything? Or do we eliminate that which we don't think bears on the matter, and say that's reality?

Omission can change the interpretation of things just as much as lying.

Wendy P.

42!

Now, just ask the right question.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

rehmwa

***In the mental health field, perception = reality is the basis of diagnosis, treatment and therapy. The object being to help individuals learn to make socially acceptable decisions within their perceived reality.

and there is nothing wrong with that - but it's still not "perception = reality". it's "perception is used to drive behavior regardless of reality"

That depends on what the definition of "is" is.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

billvon

>Facts are dynamic.

For you, perhaps. For most of us, facts are facts, and they don't change depending on the day of the week, the party of the president or the political desires of the person posting them.

What facts did you KNOW were correct and then proven wrong?

EVER had that happen?

Some facts are still only belief and parts of belief systems, until you prove them otherwise.

With growing knowledge, Facts evolve, as more understanding becomes available.- Hence Facts are dynamic.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,124]

Whether or not they're commonly accepted as facts, no matter how we act on them, yeah, there is reality, and there is perception.

Reality can, in fact, change. Diabetes was generally fatal before the discovery of insulin. Because people died, it was fatal. The fact that insulin existed didn't change its effect on those people.

But the earth was really always the same shape (at least close to it -- a blown-off mountaintop here or there notwithstanding), regardless of what people thought.

Getting into current affairs, homeless people are just as human as rich people. Many rich people do contribute more to the economy than most homeless people. The evaluation of the relative importance of those facts makes a big difference in one's outlook, however.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

Perception is reality - no it's not, it may be, it may not be

Slow is fast - no it's just the opposite, buy a dictionary

Young for her age - no, age is not subjective

At least we had fun - sure, but your skills suck

That just happens to people when they get old - (most of the time it's a lie/excuse for apathy and laziness)

it's just my luck - no, you actions have more effect on your life than just random circumstance

karma - I don't need to explain that nonsense, do I?


what other trite phrases to people through out there that are blatantly wrong but they absolutely use as a crutch?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[okalb 78]

rehmwa

Perception is reality - no it's not, it may be, it may not be

Slow is fast - no it's just the opposite, buy a dictionary

Young for her age - no, age is not subjective

At least we had fun - sure, but your skills suck

That just happens to people when they get old - (most of the time it's a lie/excuse for apathy and laziness)

it's just my luck - no, you actions have more effect on your life than just random circumstance

karma - I don't need to explain that nonsense, do I?


what other trite phrases to people through out there that are blatantly wrong but they absolutely use as a crutch?

I have read each of these literally a million times and I still don't see your point!

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[rehmwa 2]

okalb

I have read each of these literally a million times and I still don't see your point!

nice

that's an entire new category to explore - misuse of the language to exaggerate a position

add in newscaster pronunciations as just an annoying category, and we win a Bonfire thread:

Americer
Russier
Wednesdee
Thunda Storms
.
.
.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[turtlespeed 212]

rehmwa

***I have read each of these literally a million times and I still don't see your point!

nice

that's an entire new category to explore - misuse of the language to exaggerate a position

add in newscaster pronunciations as just an annoying category, and we win a Bonfire thread:

Americer
Russier
Wednesdee
Thunda Storms
.
.
.

Nucular

You are so far over the top, it's immeasurable.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun