billvon 2,400 #451 September 9, 2015 >I have what is commonly called a driver's license, yes. OK. Then please post your birth certificate, so we know you have it legally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #452 September 9, 2015 He is not the representative of the entire nation now is he. Are you ok with letting anyone walk in and be elected president of the United States by using the "trust me i'm legit" method? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #453 September 9, 2015 >He is not the representative of the entire nation now is he. No. So? He said he needed to show his birth certificate to get a license. We all have an interest in making sure only licensed drivers drive, so we have a right to demand to see his birth certificate so we know he legally obtained his license. Indeed, he often asks the question "what's wrong with ensuring that people follow the law?" >Are you ok with letting anyone walk in and be elected president of the United >States by using the "trust me i'm legit" method? You tell me. Should we trust people who simply get the job/license legally? Or should we demand to see the proof that they were eligible? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #454 September 9, 2015 Your confusing the systems. To get a DL you are REQUIRED to show them the documents needed to obtain that drivers license before you obtain one. So anyone that holds an official one has already shown the DMV, and the world that they possess the required documents to obtain a DL. The office of the president on the other hand is on a "we assume you have the right documents to hold this office" system until challenged on it. So until proven otherwise you have someone who might have the correct documents, and it is plausible that they might not actually be qualified. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #455 September 9, 2015 >So anyone that holds an official one has already shown the DMV, and the >world that they possess the required documents to obtain a DL. That assumes they did it legally. If they did NOT do it legally, and have an invalid driver's license, then they would not have had to produce a birth certificate. The US has also assumed that Obama has legally been elected to the office of President - whether or not he produced a birth certificate. Thus it is equally valid in both cases to ask for proof that the license/office was obtained legally. (I mean, we could also just go to the courts, but they've already heard dozens of challenges to his eligibility and they have ruled against every single one. Like I said before, boring.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #456 September 10, 2015 Here the problem with this conversation you are still trying to apply it to the past with obama. I am talking about the future. Do you think we need to close this issue out by defining and requiring what the 14th says for future presidents even if the next 100 are republicans or libertarians or whoever. Or are you ok with leaving this issue vague and up for more bullshit birther debates for others to have to slog through in the future? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #457 September 10, 2015 >Do you think we need to close this issue out by defining and requiring what the >14th says for future presidents even if the next 100 are republicans or >libertarians or whoever. I think the issue does need to be closed - and for Obama it has been, via the process we have to close out such issues (the US court system.) If Cruz wants to run I expect the court system to be used again to determine if a naturalized Canadian citizen can be elected president. I have a feeling the answer will be "yes" but the mechanism we have to make such calls can't be used pre-emptively - so we'll have to wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #458 September 10, 2015 So you chose to be reactive thus spending money, court time, resources etc etc over and over again instead of shoring up a clear defect in the process. The fact is the constitution does not define natural born citizen. In the Naturalization act of 1790 it says “the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.” However the naturalization act of 1795 changes that from allowing them to be a natural born citizens to just a citizen What the hell does this all mean in the terms of meeting the requirements of presidency? This is one of about a dozen issues with this that could be locked down for future elections. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #459 September 10, 2015 Does it say anywhere that the information must be made public? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #460 September 10, 2015 >So you chose to be reactive thus spending money, court time, resources etc etc >over and over again instead of shoring up a clear defect in the process. No. I choose to support the method outlined in the Constitution to clear this up. However, if you want to fix it, then create a Constitutional amendment that states who is qualified to be president. Would take far more time and money, but hey, it would shore up a clear defect in the process that almost no one cares about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #461 September 10, 2015 No what does that have to do with what bill and I are discussing. If it gets defined properly by whoever does that sort of thing, the FEC will use those definitions to certify if canidates meet the requirements of the 14th before they even are an official canidate. Making any further birther crap nothing but white noise after an election. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #462 September 10, 2015 >No what does that have to do with what bill and I are discussing. If it gets >defined properly by whoever does that sort of thing, the FEC will use those >definitions to certify if canidates meet the requirements of the 14th before they >even are an official canidate. Making any further birther crap nothing but white >noise after an election. How would that have helped here? None of the birthers were convinced by his actual birth certificate. They claimed it was a forgery, it wasn't the original and thus wasn't valid, there was a spelling error etc. If the FEC certifies it then they will just shift to "it's all a lie" "they are in on it" "the chairman of the FEC is buddies with X" etc. Won't solve a thing. Don't make the mistake that most birthers are rational. It is a means to express hatred towards Obama - nothing more. No amount of "pre-certification" will change that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #463 September 10, 2015 What medthod is that. It already does it says "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States." But QuoteThe Naturalization Act of 1790, passed three years after the U.S. Constitution was written, said that “the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.” But as the CRS pointed out in its report, the 1790 law was superseded by the Naturalization Act of 1795, which changed the language from “natural born citizens” to just “citizens.” So there is still some lingering uncertainty about Cruz’s eligibility. That’s because the Supreme Court hasn’t ruled on the meaning of “natural born citizen,” which the Constitution doesn’t define. QuoteEven Duggin, who wrote in her 2013 article that “a scholarly consensus is emerging … that anyone who acquires citizenship at birth is natural born for purposes of Article II,” acknowledges that the issue may not be settled. “In the absence of a definitive Supreme Court ruling — or a constitutional amendment — the parameters of the clause remain uncertain,” she wrote. I use this article about Ted because it is an issue for the future. http://www.factcheck.org/2015/03/ted-cruzs-presidential-eligibility/ Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #464 September 10, 2015 billvon>No what does that have to do with what bill and I are discussing. If it gets >defined properly by whoever does that sort of thing, the FEC will use those >definitions to certify if canidates meet the requirements of the 14th before they >even are an official canidate. Making any further birther crap nothing but white >noise after an election. How would that have helped here? None of the birthers were convinced by his actual birth certificate. They claimed it was a forgery, it wasn't the original and thus wasn't valid, there was a spelling error etc. If the FEC certifies it then they will just shift to "it's all a lie" "they are in on it" "the chairman of the FEC is buddies with X" etc. Won't solve a thing. Don't make the mistake that most birthers are rational. It is a means to express hatred towards Obama - nothing more. No amount of "pre-certification" will change that. Mostly because it will be applied equally among all canidates through a proper process BEFORE they are even canidates. I doubt you would have seen this much birther movement against Obama if this would have came up while he was still in a campaign with multiple other people, but since we allow ourselves to be exposed with loopholes we open ourselves up to things like this once someone is ALREADY ELECTED AND IN OFFICE someone tries to find a way to remove them. Once again why the push to not go through with this bill. How could this hurt anyone, and do anything other than secure a less troubled political process? Other than to afford you the chance to just keep saying "Na fuck that" to continue an arguement with me can you come up with any good reasons why this process of qualification should not get some better clarification and certification processes for the future elections? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #465 September 10, 2015 AnvilbrotherOk now you are being obtuse. No, I'm really not. Don't blame me because your own system of government doesn't work the way you want it too. Believe me, if I could take the credit for designing an entire country I would, but it was really nothing to do with me.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #466 September 10, 2015 AnvilbrotherSo you chose to be reactive thus spending money, court time, resources etc etc over and over again instead of shoring up a clear defect in the process. I'm pretty sure the same applies to Billvon as to me - he's not choosing to be reactive, he just recognises how your system works...Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #467 September 10, 2015 QuoteMaking any further birther crap nothing but white noise after an election. All the Obama birther crap was white noise after the election.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #468 September 10, 2015 QuoteI doubt you would have seen this much birther movement against Obama if this would have came up while he was still in a campaign with multiple other people, Not quite as much, but still quite a bit. Racists be racist. QuoteOther than to afford you the chance to just keep saying "Na fuck that" to continue an arguement with me can you come up with any good reasons why this process of qualification should not get some better clarification and certification processes for the future elections? Because the constitution?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #469 September 10, 2015 RonD1120I know how to apply Scripture to my life. I also know how to apply Scripture to your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #470 September 10, 2015 The real question is, can you apply Scripture in your own life? Consider: Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Have you called upon the Lord and asked Him into your heart?Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #471 September 10, 2015 RonD1120The real question is, ... ... what does this have to do with a birth certificate you personally mistrusted?? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #472 September 10, 2015 RonD1120The real question is, can you apply Scripture in your own life? The question is, can you give up your mental crutch and live with reality?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #473 September 10, 2015 christelsabine***The real question is, ... ... what does this have to do with a birth certificate you personally mistrusted?? I am just responding to others.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #474 September 10, 2015 billvon>I have what is commonly called a driver's license, yes. OK. Then please post your birth certificate, so we know you have it legally. Just as soon as I run for public office, I will.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #475 September 10, 2015 jakee***The real question is, can you apply Scripture in your own life? The question is, can you give up your mental crutch and live with reality? It is a spiritual crutch and the answer is no. My life became livable after I ask Jesus to come into my heart.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
