Stop and Frisk

[OHCHUTE 0]

OK so in the Animal Kingdom, the Zebra's are kicking, biting, pooping on, yapping, raming, harrasing, peeing on, head butting, killing other zebra's.

So in the interest of protecting Zebra's from Zebra's, the game warden stops many Zebras who they suspect are rowdy and gives them "how to be a good neighbor," talk.

Now is that racial profiling? Or is that game wardens doing their job in the interest of helping Zebra's.

Should the warden just let the Zebra's continue without any intervention?

I say, if the Zebra's are complaining because they're being stopped, in an effort that they might not be harassed by other Zebra's, simple stop, stopping Zebra's to give them "be a good neighbor talk."

Let the Zebra's deal with it.

Now we'll take care of Zebra's if they're out kicking hippo's.

[sfzombie13 307]

i think you are missing the point. we don't care too much about zebras doing anything to other zebras. but when a cop stops a person for simply being in a particular place and frisks him, when that person was doing nothing suspicious, it is wrong. now, the terry pat has its place. i have nothing against it when a cop wants to talk to you. but when they abuse this and use anything collected during this pat down to charge you with, this is where it crosses the line. the results of such a search should be thrown out, period. i have no problem with a cop not wanting to get shot, but if they find a pocket full of drugs when ensuring their safety, this should constitute an illegal search without probable cause.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[quade 3]

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” -- George Orwell, Animal Farm

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 1,647]

I believe the judge got it exactly right.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 3]

kallend

I believe the judge got it exactly right.

The statistics speak for themselves. While most individual cops probably aren't racist, the program certainly ends up that way.

I can't see how anyone who has looked at the numbers can come to a different conclusion, unless they're simply a contrarian on principle.

http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

Shouldn't agencies focus their officers' efforts in high crime areas? Isn't that just prudent asset allocation? "Cops on dots" seems a better use of limited resources than ignoring statistics, doesn't it?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[kallend 1,647]

Kennedy

Shouldn't agencies focus their officers' efforts in high crime areas? Isn't that just prudent asset allocation? "Cops on dots" seems a better use of limited resources than ignoring statistics, doesn't it?

You jealously defend the 2nd Amendment. How about giving the rest of the Constitution similar respect?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

kallend

You jealously defend the 2nd Amendment. How about giving the rest of the Constitution similar respect?

Jealously????

[turtlespeed 212]

Gravitymaster

***

You jealously defend the 2nd Amendment. How about giving the rest of the Constitution similar respect?

Jealously????

Yeah. He speaks of the constitution, but disregards the 1st amendment quite admirably.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[promise5 17]

quade

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” -- George Orwell, Animal Farm

Oh hell no!! If your including a certain reptile then HELL NO it's not equal. Those things are evil cursed nasty lowest life forms!

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[Kennedy 0]

kallend

***Shouldn't agencies focus their officers' efforts in high crime areas? Isn't that just prudent asset allocation? "Cops on dots" seems a better use of limited resources than ignoring statistics, doesn't it?

You jealously defend the 2nd Amendment. How about giving the rest of the Constitution similar respect?

Aren't you the one always telling me I should accept more limitations on constitutional rights? Either way, what are you talking about here? I'm talking about resource allocation. Shouldn't police resources go to high crime areas? Or would you rather police do nothing in those neighborhoods and get accused of not caring about the residents?

nb. Terry stops and Terry frisks (two separate things) are supported by the Supreme Court. You know, a little 1968 case called Terry v Ohio.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[turtlespeed 212]

promise5

***“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” -- George Orwell, Animal Farm

Oh hell no!! If your including a certain reptile then HELL NO it's not equal. Those things are evil cursed nasty lowest life forms!
Oh . . . REALLY?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 1,647]

Kennedy

******Shouldn't agencies focus their officers' efforts in high crime areas? Isn't that just prudent asset allocation? "Cops on dots" seems a better use of limited resources than ignoring statistics, doesn't it?

You jealously defend the 2nd Amendment. How about giving the rest of the Constitution similar respect?

Aren't you the one always telling me I should accept more limitations on constitutional rights? Either way, what are you talking about here? I'm talking about resource allocation. Shouldn't police resources go to high crime areas? Or would you rather police do nothing in those neighborhoods and get accused of not caring about the residents?

nb. Terry stops and Terry frisks (two separate things) are supported by the Supreme Court. You know, a little 1968 case called Terry v Ohio.

"Cops on dots" isn't the issue. Searches for ZERO probable cause except appearance is the issue. The judge got it right. (As did Scalia when allowing restrictions on the 2nd).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[oldwomanc6 38]

turtlespeed

******“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” -- George Orwell, Animal Farm

Oh hell no!! If your including a certain reptile then HELL NO it's not equal. Those things are evil cursed nasty lowest life forms!
Oh . . . REALLY?

I thought she was talking about someone else.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[jclalor 12]

This is priceless, tens of thousands of gun deaths a year and all we hear is "That's one of the prices we pay for our 2nd amendment rights" Then out of the other side of the mouth comes the belief that minorities should be stopped at complete random and searched. Don't you ever want to be just a little consistent with your beliefs?

I wonder how popular random searches would be at your local tea bagger gathering?

[oldwomanc6 38]

jclalor

This is priceless, tens of thousands of gun deaths a year and all we hear is "That's one of the prices we pay for our 2nd amendment rights" Then out of the other side of the mouth comes the belief that minorities should be stopped at complete random and searched. Don't you ever want to be just a little consistent with your beliefs?

I wonder how popular random searches would be at your local tea bagger gathering?

When did this happen? This year? Last year? 1863?

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[Bignugget 0]

oldwomanc6

***This is priceless, tens of thousands of gun deaths a year and all we hear is "That's one of the prices we pay for our 2nd amendment rights" Then out of the other side of the mouth comes the belief that minorities should be stopped at complete random and searched. Don't you ever want to be just a little consistent with your beliefs?

I wonder how popular random searches would be at your local tea bagger gathering?

When did this happen? This year? Last year? 1863?


In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicide deaths, and 11,078 firearm-related homicide deaths in the United States

In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 66.9% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm

[jclalor 12]

Quote

In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 66.9% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm

Citing a UN report about firearms in the US on DZ.com? Prepare for a great wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[jclalor 12]

Quote

When did this happen? This year? Last year? 1863?

It happens yearly.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/american-gun-deaths-to-exceed-traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html

[turtlespeed 212]

Bignugget

******This is priceless, tens of thousands of gun deaths a year and all we hear is "That's one of the prices we pay for our 2nd amendment rights" Then out of the other side of the mouth comes the belief that minorities should be stopped at complete random and searched. Don't you ever want to be just a little consistent with your beliefs?

I wonder how popular random searches would be at your local tea bagger gathering?

When did this happen? This year? Last year? 1863?


In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicide deaths, and 11,078 firearm-related homicide deaths in the United States

In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 66.9% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm

When you can prove that the suicides would not be accomplished in any other way, I'll accept them.

Proof, not opinion or speculation.

Otherwise lump them into the number of abortions completed. After all suicide is only a late term abortion.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[OHCHUTE 0]

So if the propensity of violence within the Zebra community is the greatest, we should just leave it alone? Good Zebra's are complaining. Bad Zebra's too are complaining.

I drove down rt 40 into Western Baltimore the other day. I spotted 9 cop cars parked, a helicopter over head and two young African American guys sitting on the curb in handcuffs. My first thought: what is this costing the city.

[jclalor 12]

OHCHUTE

So if the propensity of violence within the Zebra community is the greatest, we should just leave it alone? Good Zebra's are complaining. Bad Zebra's too are complaining.

I drove down rt 40 into Western Baltimore the other day. I spotted 9 cop cars parked, a helicopter over head and two young African American guys sitting on the curb in handcuffs. My first thought: what is this costing the city.

The real question you should have ask is what are they accused of? And why are we spending so much money to fight low level drug users/dealers. Both parties are starting to see the futility of the drug war and the crazy amount of money we spend to fight it. When the profit motive is gone from drugs, there will be no need to shoot up the competitions neighborhood.

[DaVinci 0]

***In 2010, there were 19,392 firearm-related suicide deaths, and 11,078 firearm-related homicide deaths in the United States
/quote]

Let me just start by saying I think the stop and frisk was crap and glad it was tossed out. I do think it should of been on 4th amendment grounds alone with nothing to do about racism.

Now that being said.... Careful with stats. You want to claim that this is racist and provide stats.... BUT, I can provide stats that show that blacks are almost TWICE as likely to commit a gun crime.

Black 16.9 per 100k
White 9.2 per 100k

So if you wanted to stop gun crime, you would support targeting blacks over whites.... They have a higher gun crime rate.

Further, you should be upset at handguns and not so called "assault rifles" According to the FBI, only about 323 TOTAL deaths were from rifles of ALL types.

And again, recent stats have shown that guns are used in self defense at least as often as they are used for evil....

So stats are good, but you need to be careful. Using stats it would be easy to justify targeting blacks for additional scrutiny.

Again, before you try and make some BS claim about me.... I am GLAD the stop and frisk was thrown out... On 4th Amendment grounds alone.

I just wish some of you that claim to support the 1st and 4th would give 1/3rd the protection to the 2nd.

[Bignugget 0]

You can target whoever you want.

I was just posting the figures in answer to a question that was asked about how many tens of thousands of deaths per year were going on using guns.

Personally I am in favor of the magic button that removes all guns from everyone.

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

I was just posting the figures in answer to a question that was asked about how many tens of thousands of deaths per year were going on using guns

If you include suicides... the 3 tens. But you can't prove that suicides would go down (Look at Japan, practically zero guns but higher suicide rates).

So that leaves about 11k a year. The majority of those are black on black crime. And the majority of those were from people that are not allowed to own firearms using CURRENT law.

Quote

Personally I am in favor of the magic button that removes all guns from everyone.

Fantasy. You may want to believe in magic, but the rest of us know reality.

If your dream worked, there would be no drug problem in the US.