Congess and Obomacare

[Bignugget 0]

Losing it is not the same as being forced to drop it.

Sorry.

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Losing it is not the same as being forced to drop it.

Sorry.

Only in your mind. You claimed we would get to keep it, that did not prove to be true.

[Bignugget 0]

It is true.

I will await any sort of link to information that shows you will be forced to stop buying into your employers health care plan, or forced to drop your existing coverage.

Barring that I will make the determination you in fact, have no idea what the Affordable Care Act will do/has done/is doing.

[turtlespeed 212]

Bignugget

It is true.

I will await any sort of link to information that shows you will be forced to stop buying into your employers health care plan, or forced to drop your existing coverage.

Barring that I will make the determination you in fact, have no idea what the Affordable Care Act will do/has done/is doing.

Let me get this strait.

You are alleging that even when his employer drops their group coverage and rates, he is not in fact forced to drop that group coverage and rate by default.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 18]

turtlespeed

***It is true.

I will await any sort of link to information that shows you will be forced to stop buying into your employers health care plan, or forced to drop your existing coverage.

Barring that I will make the determination you in fact, have no idea what the Affordable Care Act will do/has done/is doing.

Let me get this strait.

You are alleging that even when his employer drops their group coverage and rates, he is not in fact forced to drop that group coverage and rate by default.

I gotta wonder if his news is filtered for him
These kinds of stories have been all over the news


http://nationalreview.com/corner/356140/over-100k-new-jersey-residents-lose-their-affordable-health-plans-under-obamacare

Quote

The latest casualty of Obamacare may be a low-cost New Jersey health-care policy. Though President Obama promised “if you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period,” that will not be the case for approximately 106,000 New Jersey residents whose plans will disappear under the law.

Known as the “basic and essential,” or B&E, health-care plans, the policy costs as little as a couple hundred dollars per month and is the choice of 71 percent of New Jersey residents on the individual insurance market. It provides minimum coverage for things such as doctor’s visits and procedures that don’t involve a hospital stay. According to the Newark Star-Ledger, B&E policy holders will, under Obamacare, “be left with may be a choice among pricey, pricier and priciest” plans.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

It is true

No, if it is gone I do not get to keep it.
If it changes, I did not get to keep it.

[jclalor 12]

Quote

and procedures that don’t involve a hospital stay.

Does not even cover hospital stays? Sounds like shitty insurance that would leave tax payers on the hook if they end up staying in the hospital overnight.

What a joke.

[Bignugget 0]

turtlespeed

***It is true.

I will await any sort of link to information that shows you will be forced to stop buying into your employers health care plan, or forced to drop your existing coverage.

Barring that I will make the determination you in fact, have no idea what the Affordable Care Act will do/has done/is doing.

Let me get this strait.

You are alleging that even when his employer drops their group coverage and rates, he is not in fact forced to drop that group coverage and rate by default.


You are not forced to drop your employer based health coverage.

Period.




Your employer has a choice.

Be mad at your employer if they stop subsidizing your healthcare.

They made a choice.

[Bignugget 0]

Those plans do not meet the minimum qualifications for health coverage.

They are 'forced' to get the same basic level of coverage everyone in America is.

They are 'forced' to get MORE insurance, since it doesn't meet the minimum.

I will await your link to some employer based health plans that don't meet the minimum requirements......and are being 'forced' to increase coverage.

My guess is Apple and Walmart already meet the new burden of coverage.


So perhaps Obama misspoke when/if he said

"“if you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period,” "

Perhaps a better way to say it is

'if you like your health care plan, and its not complete shit with hardly any real coverage for when you get seriously fucked up, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. Otherwise you will have to meet a minimum burden of coverage, or pay an opt out fee.'

[Bignugget 0]

jclalor

Quote

and procedures that don’t involve a hospital stay.

Does not even cover hospital stays? Sounds like shitty insurance that would leave tax payers on the hook if they end up staying in the hospital overnight.

What a joke.

Exactly.

Which is why they will not be available under Obamacare.

Plans that do not meet the minimum requirements for coverage will serve no purpose.

Totally irrelevant to the topic at hand but very true.

The topic is whether employees who have employer based coverage (which was not that article) will be forced to drop that coverage they currently have (which by and large meets the min. req.) and pick up a new policy.

The answer is no.

Unless their employer decides to STOP offering health benefits to their employees none of those employees are 'forced' to make any sort of decision.

Employers already pay a HUGE fraction of the premiums for their employees. That helps to make them competitive, and attract hard-working, talented people.

The notion that employers will stop offering health coverage (as a majority) ignores the huge competitive advantage benefit packages offer. It's a terrible business decision.

Lets pose this hypothetical:

RushMC is a college graduate.

I know but stay with me...

He goes out to interview, 2 spots...Google and Apple.

Both are paying pretty good, let him nap in little contemporary balls and shit, have cool spots etc.

One has employer based health coverage and is relatively affordable

One doesn't, and Rush will have to pay ~75% more (about what the company covers on average)

What does Rush do? Hes a smart, problem solving, go getter (remember this is hypothetical)...so what does he decide?


I would argue that the employer who offers a comprehensive coverage package along with a competitive salary has a much higher chance of getting the cream of the crop, retaining talent, and producing a higher overall margin.

[jclalor 12]

Bignugget

***

Quote

and procedures that don’t involve a hospital stay.

Does not even cover hospital stays? Sounds like shitty insurance that would leave tax payers on the hook if they end up staying in the hospital overnight.

What a joke.

Exactly.

Which is why they will not be available under Obamacare.

Plans that do not meet the minimum requirements for coverage will serve no purpose.

Totally irrelevant to the topic at hand but very true.

The topic is whether employees who have employer based coverage (which was not that article) will be forced to drop that coverage they currently have (which by and large meets the min. req.) and pick up a new policy.

The answer is no.

Unless their employer decides to STOP offering health benefits to their employees none of those employees are 'forced' to make any sort of decision.

Employers already pay a HUGE fraction of the premiums for their employees. That helps to make them competitive, and attract hard-working, talented people.

The notion that employers will stop offering health coverage (as a majority) ignores the huge competitive advantage benefit packages offer. It's a terrible business decision.

Lets pose this hypothetical:

RushMC is a college graduate.

I know but stay with me...

He goes out to interview, 2 spots...Google and Apple.

Both are paying pretty good, let him nap in little contemporary balls and shit, have cool spots etc.

One has employer based health coverage and is relatively affordable

One doesn't, and Rush will have to pay ~75% more (about what the company covers on average)

What does Rush do? Hes a smart, problem solving, go getter (remember this is hypothetical)...so what does he decide?


I would argue that the employer who offers a comprehensive coverage package along with a competitive salary has a much higher chance of getting the cream of the crop, retaining talent, and producing a higher overall margin.

The vast majority of Americans will never even notice a change when the Affordable care act takes place.

My insurance isn't changing.

When the vast majority of people don't even know what the affordable care act is, like the OP, they will believe anything they hear from Limbaugh and Hannity. Some people here have a much bigger desire to see Obama fail, than to be honest with themselves.

The fact is, the employers of low skilled workers have seldom provided health insurance, they let the tax payer pick up the tab.

Repeat the lie the often enough, and soon it becomes the truth.

[turtlespeed 212]

Bignugget

What a joke.

Quote

Exactly.

So the government now has the right to tell you what to buy.
THAT's constitutional.

There is a better way to do this. It is NOT Obamacare.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jclalor 12]

turtlespeed

***

What a joke.

Quote

Exactly.

So the government now has the right to tell you what to buy.
THAT's constitutional.

There is a better way to do this. It is NOT Obamacare.

Yup, the Government can tell you to be responsible and not to be a burden to society.

Don't you get that?

[rushmc 18]

jclalor

******

What a joke.

Quote

Exactly.

So the government now has the right to tell you what to buy.
THAT's constitutional.

There is a better way to do this. It is NOT Obamacare.

Yup, the Government can tell you to be responsible and not to be a burden to society.

Don't you get that?

This is why welfare recipeints make more money off the gov than minimum wage earners

why work

Let others do it for me

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jclalor 12]

rushmc

*********

What a joke.

Quote

Exactly.

So the government now has the right to tell you what to buy.
THAT's constitutional.

There is a better way to do this. It is NOT Obamacare.

Yup, the Government can tell you to be responsible and not to be a burden to society.

Don't you get that?

This is why welfare recipeints make more money off the gov than minimum wage earners

why work

Let others do it for me

And you think I disagree with you on welfare? well I don't.

We both know where the idea for the personal mandate came from; the heritage foundation, they thought it was the right thing to do until an uppity Illinois Senator thought is was a good idea.

[rushmc 18]

jclalor

************

What a joke.

Quote

Exactly.

So the government now has the right to tell you what to buy.
THAT's constitutional.

There is a better way to do this. It is NOT Obamacare.

Yup, the Government can tell you to be responsible and not to be a burden to society.

Don't you get that?

This is why welfare recipeints make more money off the gov than minimum wage earners

why work

Let others do it for me

And you think I disagree with you on welfare? well I don't.

We both know where the idea for the personal mandate came from; the heritage foundation, they thought it was the right thing to do until an uppity Illinois Senator thought is was a good idea.

Yep
and they have long since back tracked on the idea

Long befor this uppity senator you are talking about

which leads me to ask
Do you think Obama wrote this law? Really?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Channman 2]

And there is this in the NEWS:

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2013/08/ups-to-drop-15000-spouses-from.html

[Channman 2]

"The notion that employers will stop offering health coverage (as a majority) ignores the huge competitive advantage benefit packages offer. It's a terrible business decision.

It seems you are incorrect or maybe you don't read the news but I linked it for ya. From CNBC

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100975973

[kallend 1,644]

rushmc

*********

What a joke.

Quote

Exactly.

So the government now has the right to tell you what to buy.
THAT's constitutional.

There is a better way to do this. It is NOT Obamacare.

Yup, the Government can tell you to be responsible and not to be a burden to society.

Don't you get that?

This is why welfare recipeints make more money off the gov than minimum wage earners

why work

Let others do it for me

Go ahead, see you you like it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,644]

rushmc

***************

What a joke.

Quote

Exactly.

So the government now has the right to tell you what to buy.
THAT's constitutional.

There is a better way to do this. It is NOT Obamacare.

Yup, the Government can tell you to be responsible and not to be a burden to society.

Don't you get that?

This is why welfare recipeints make more money off the gov than minimum wage earners

why work

Let others do it for me

And you think I disagree with you on welfare? well I don't.

We both know where the idea for the personal mandate came from; the heritage foundation, they thought it was the right thing to do until an uppity Illinois Senator thought is was a good idea.

Yep
and they have long since back tracked on the idea

Long befor this uppity senator you are talking about



Simply untrue.

Many conservatives were supporting the individual mandate right up until 2009.

As recently as 2006 (when BHO was already an "uppity senator") Mitt Romney praised the Heritage Foundation staff for their help in drafting Romneycare.

“I want to begin by saying thank you to Bob Moffit and Ed Haislmaier. Bob and Ed worked very extensively with our team as we were developing our plan for health care.” Replied Moffit, “We’ve been honored by your request—myself and my colleague Ed Haislmaier, who’s done a lot of the work on this bill—to participate in giving our best advice and our technical assistance in designing a new and different kind of health insurance market.”

www.heritage.org/events/2006/01/massachusetts-health-care-reform

FACTS can be SO irritating, can't they?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Bignugget 0]

Channman

"The notion that employers will stop offering health coverage (as a majority) ignores the huge competitive advantage benefit packages offer. It's a terrible business decision.

It seems you are incorrect or maybe you don't read the news but I linked it for ya. From CNBC

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100975973

"But the same study found a very strong majority of those companies—82 percent—see their ability to offer subsidized health benefits to existing workers as an "important" as part of their "employee value proposition" for 2014, according to the study.



And 98 percent of the employers have no definite plans to discontinue health-care coverage in 2014 and 2015 and direct their full-time workers to the state health insurance exchanges."


"Most companies very much still see health-care benefits as a core offering," said Ron Fontanetta, a senior health-care consultant at Towers Watson.

""It's a very visible benefit, and it garners a lot of attention among executives, in part because it's very visible to employees and also because it costs a lot," Fontanetta said."


98% seems like a majority to me.

[turtlespeed 212]

Bignugget

***"The notion that employers will stop offering health coverage (as a majority) ignores the huge competitive advantage benefit packages offer. It's a terrible business decision.

It seems you are incorrect or maybe you don't read the news but I linked it for ya. From CNBC

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100975973

"But the same study found a very strong majority of those companies—82 percent—see their ability to offer subsidized health benefits to existing workers as an "important" as part of their "employee value proposition" for 2014, according to the study.



And 98 percent of the employers have no definite plans to discontinue health-care coverage in 2014 and 2015 and direct their full-time workers to the state health insurance exchanges."


"Most companies very much still see health-care benefits as a core offering," said Ron Fontanetta, a senior health-care consultant at Towers Watson.

""It's a very visible benefit, and it garners a lot of attention among executives, in part because it's very visible to employees and also because it costs a lot," Fontanetta said."


98% seems like a majority to me.

Evidently you don't understand what a small company actually is.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Bignugget 0]

Huh?

The article was targeted at mid to large size companies....

I will wait for you to post some articles talking about how the majority of companies in the USA will be dropping employer subsidized health insurance....which is what I claim is unlikely....and that the articles was supposed to show strong evidence against.....which it does not.

[RonD1120 58]

How about this?

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2013/08/ups-to-drop-15000-spouses-from.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_atlanta+%28Atlanta+Business+Chronicle%29

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Channman 2]

RonD1120

How about this?

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2013/08/ups-to-drop-15000-spouses-from.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_atlanta+%28Atlanta+Business+Chronicle%29

That was my lead off article.