livendive 8 #26 June 27, 2013 airtwardoQuote Rick Perry had called them back into special session on July 1st to pass the bill. Presumably they need a few days to clean up confetti after they celebrate their 500th execution tonight. Blues, Dave They're finally executing that woman who killed 3 people? So much for SWIFT justice...we'll have to work on that. These guys seem to have a pretty quick process for women, but I heard even they excuse the mentally handicapped, so probably too liberal. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #27 June 27, 2013 airtwardo They're finally executing that woman who killed 3 people? So much for SWIFT justice...we'll have to work on that. I'll bet it was no accident that she was #500 - a poster child for the death penalty if you'll ever find one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #28 June 27, 2013 popsjumper Hospitals won't or can't handle a currently legal abortion? I don't get it. Quote It doesn't matter. Cross-purposes here. It appeared that in your earlier post that closing clinics was going to end abortions in Texas because there would be no other option. I'm sure that a hospital is still an option if the clinics are closed. Quote If an activity is legal and has been found to be a Constitutional right by the Supreme Court, like abortion, the state shouldn't put up barriers to exercising it. I agree with that to a point. But I would qualify that with "reasonable" requirements . Quote What if there were only one hospital in the state allowed to perform an abortion? Would that be fair? No. Neither would it be reasonable. It would meet the letter of the law and violate the spirit of it, for sure. Quote What if there were only one gun dealer allowed to be licensed in the state? Still fair? You'd have one rich-ass gun dealer! I don't think that having the clinics meet quality standards is a problem. I agree that it appears that some local, state and federal goobermints want to circumvent the constitution by making unreasonable demands on them and that simply sucks.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #29 June 27, 2013 NPR reported this morning that the bill would close 37 of the 42 clinics in the state. This is not about safety, it is an attempt to ban abortion in Texas by making it prohibitively hard and/or expensive to obtain one. I still predict the Feds will find the bill overreaches, but it will probably take years. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #30 June 27, 2013 livendive***QuoteYou do realise that the bill didn't pass, right? Your point is pretty mute. It didn't pass for purely procedural reasons. I predict they'll pass it pretty soon, even if it means closing the gallery so protesters can't interfere. And it's a BS law. They pulled the same shit in Virginia, but they did it through the Board of Health instead of the legislature. The BOH decided that clinics that offer abortion needed to conform to the same building standards as full sized hospitals, which effectively shut them all down. Of course, they sold it as concern for the health of the mother, but it was just taking a backdoor to banning abortion without having the political power to do it through legitimate means. Texas is using the same tactic by requiring crazy hurdles for abortion doctors to meet before they can practice. Either way, it'll get struck down by the Feds. It will just waste everyone's time and money, and probably endanger a few hundred pregnant women in the meantime. Rick Perry had called them back into special session on July 1st to pass the bill. Presumably they need a few days to clean up confetti after they celebrate their 500th execution tonight. Blues, Dave Damn dude, celebrating the execution of a women that committed murder...I don't recall such a celebration. But justice was performed last night. Don't Mess with Texas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #31 June 27, 2013 Quote Damn dude, celebrating the execution of a women that committed murder...I don't recall such a celebration. But justice was performed last night. Don't Mess with Texas. I didn't get an invitation to that party, but I would have attended, gladly.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #32 June 27, 2013 turtlespeed Quote Damn dude, celebrating the execution of a women that committed murder...I don't recall such a celebration. But justice was performed last night. Don't Mess with Texas. I didn't get an invitation to that party, but I would have attended, gladly. I was looking at your Avatar if that is what you call it...the Turtle with the clover. I never noticed the clover...if it had been a snake...well enough said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #33 June 27, 2013 turtlespeedQuote Damn dude, celebrating the execution of a women that committed murder...I don't recall such a celebration. But justice was performed last night. Don't Mess with Texas. I didn't get an invitation to that party, but I would have attended, gladly. The death penalty is a pretty controversial subject. In its best possible light, I liken it to pressure washing a septic tank. There are less radical alternatives, but I can see where some might consider it necessary. That said, you can't do such a task without climbing into the tank and occasionally getting some on you. Is it necessary? That's debatable, but I can't imagine why it would be a source of civic pride. "We pressure-wash more septic tanks than anyone else!" just seems odd, at best, and that's only if the organization considered this a primary duty. "We kill more convicts than anyone else!" lends itself to a much less flattering interpretation. Are Texans proud of the fact that they have more criminals deserving of the death penalty? Or of the fact that they're more willing to kill a convict, understanding that this increases the likelihood of getting one wrong, as in the case of Todd Willlingham? And if Texas has such a good system, why is it so resistant to critical reviews that could help improve it, e.g. a governor who forbids further investigation into past executions? From the outside, Texas seems a bit sadistic, and more interested in killing people than exacting justice. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #34 June 27, 2013 QuoteTexas seems a bit sadistic, and more interested in killing people than exacting justice. What is justice in not an eye for an eye? I think most Texans value human life as much as anyone else ...the lives of honest taxpayers too. Does the death penalty preserve human life is the question - most here believe it does in the long term. I know some 'gang members' are hesitant to shoot it out with the police because of the very likely outcome if/when they are apprehended. IMO the punishment should always fit the crime - giving 3 hots & a cot with free medical & cable TV to someone who's butchered fellow human beings does not achieve that goal. If putting 500 people to death who have committed outrageous crimes against society makes the next possible murderer think twice about taking a member of my family...I have no problem with it. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #35 June 27, 2013 livendive***Quote Damn dude, celebrating the execution of a women that committed murder...I don't recall such a celebration. But justice was performed last night. Don't Mess with Texas. I didn't get an invitation to that party, but I would have attended, gladly. >>>>>>The death penalty is a pretty controversial subject. In its best possible light, I liken it to pressure washing a septic tank. There are less radical alternatives, but I can see where some might consider it necessary. That said, you can't do such a task without climbing into the tank and occasionally getting some on you.<<<<< More like cleaning out your toilet. No one knows what is in the septic tank until it is opened. Toilets are visible and evident. Not everyone has a septic either. A great vast majority have toilets though. >>>>>Is it necessary? You tell me . . . How often does your toilet get cleaned? >>>>>>That's debatable, but I can't imagine why it would be a source of civic pride. "We pressure-wash more septic tanks than anyone else!" just seems odd, at best, and that's only if the organization considered this a primary duty. "We kill more convicts than anyone else!" lends itself to a much less flattering interpretation. Are Texans proud of the fact that they have more criminals deserving of the death penalty? Well when you have company over, do you like your toilet to be clean? We are proud of the fact that we have a state government that is willing to help keep the toilet cleaner. >>>>>>Or of the fact that they're more willing to kill a convict, understanding that this increases the likelihood of getting one wrong, as in the case of Todd Willlingham? And if Texas has such a good system, why is it so resistant to critical reviews that could help improve it, e.g. a governor who forbids further investigation into past executions? From the outside, Texas seems a bit sadistic, and more interested in killing people than exacting justice. As technology progresses, so does the likely hood of a mistake decrease. I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #36 June 27, 2013 Except when you get it wrong...then an eye for no eye is just state sanctioned murder, not justice. Life without parole is cheaper and just as effective at protecting the public, with the added benefit of being reversible if you convict an innocent person. I've heard arguments on both sides of the deterrence value of a death penalty. Personally, it would not figure in to my decision on whether to commit a capital crime. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #37 June 27, 2013 livendiveExcept when you get it wrong...then an eye for no eye I'd just state sanctioned murder, not justice. Life without parole is cheaper and just as effective at protecting the public, with the added benefit of being reversible if you convict an innocent person. I've heard arguments on both sides of the deterrence value of a death penalty. Personally, it would not figure in to my decision on whether to commit a capital crime. Blues, Dave Life without is cheaper? Piece of mind is priceless It might not figure into your decision, but it certainly closes the door for people 'like you' on the ability to do it twice. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #38 June 27, 2013 airtwardo***Except when you get it wrong...then an eye for no eye I'd just state sanctioned murder, not justice. Life without parole is cheaper and just as effective at protecting the public, with the added benefit of being reversible if you convict an innocent person. I've heard arguments on both sides of the deterrence value of a death penalty. Personally, it would not figure in to my decision on whether to commit a capital crime. Blues, Dave Life without is cheaper? Piece of mind is priceless It might not figure into your decision, but it certainly closes the door for people 'like you' on the ability to do it twice. Where's the peace of mind in the very strong probability of executing the innocent? For example, the Innocence Project, part of Northwestern's School of Journalism, exonerated more people on death row than were executed in Illinois during the time between the SC allowing the death penalty and the Governor commuting everyone on death row to life without."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #39 June 27, 2013 wolfriverjoe******Except when you get it wrong...then an eye for no eye I'd just state sanctioned murder, not justice. Life without parole is cheaper and just as effective at protecting the public, with the added benefit of being reversible if you convict an innocent person. I've heard arguments on both sides of the deterrence value of a death penalty. Personally, it would not figure in to my decision on whether to commit a capital crime. Blues, Dave Life without is cheaper? Piece of mind is priceless It might not figure into your decision, but it certainly closes the door for people 'like you' on the ability to do it twice. Where's the peace of mind in the very strong probability of executing the innocent? For example, the Innocence Project, part of Northwestern's School of Journalism, exonerated more people on death row than were executed in Illinois during the time between the SC allowing the death penalty and the Governor commuting everyone on death row to life without. Is that any worse than ordering a stand down on people under attack at an embassy?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zach 0 #40 June 27, 2013 turtlespeed*********Except when you get it wrong...then an eye for no eye I'd just state sanctioned murder, not justice. Life without parole is cheaper and just as effective at protecting the public, with the added benefit of being reversible if you convict an innocent person. I've heard arguments on both sides of the deterrence value of a death penalty. Personally, it would not figure in to my decision on whether to commit a capital crime. Blues, Dave Life without is cheaper? Piece of mind is priceless It might not figure into your decision, but it certainly closes the door for people 'like you' on the ability to do it twice. Where's the peace of mind in the very strong probability of executing the innocent? For example, the Innocence Project, part of Northwestern's School of Journalism, exonerated more people on death row than were executed in Illinois during the time between the SC allowing the death penalty and the Governor commuting everyone on death row to life without. Is that any worse than ordering a stand down on people under attack at an embassy? Just saw this last night. http://bigstory.ap.org/article/former-us-commander-libya-disputes-diplomat "The former commander of a four-member Army special forces unit in Tripoli, Libya, denied on Wednesday that he was told to stand down during last year's deadly assault on the U.S. diplomatic mission in Benghazi." Zach Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #41 June 27, 2013 Wow, abortion to the death penalty to Benghazi in two pages. That must be a record. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zach 0 #42 June 27, 2013 Sorry, just replying to what was said. Didn't mean to derail/add to derailment, but didn't want to start a new thread on that article because I don't really have anything to say about it. Zach Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #43 June 27, 2013 livendive Life without parole is cheaper Is this true in Texas? Not that the debate over the death penalty morality should be of cost savings (see China), but if it's still costing more to execute in Texas where 500 have been so punished, then it's never going to be cheaper than just jailing them on Alcatraz 3000. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #44 June 27, 2013 kelpdiver*** Life without parole is cheaper Is this true in Texas? Not that the debate over the death penalty morality should be of cost savings (see China), but if it's still costing more to execute in Texas where 500 have been so punished, then it's never going to be cheaper than just jailing them on Alcatraz 3000. According to this article, the trial costs alone far outweigh the costs of life imprisonment, and that doesn't include the costs associated with imprisonment during the often lengthy appeals process, or the execution itself. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #45 June 27, 2013 OHCHUTEBring on the morning after pill to end this silly stupid BS argument that really needs to end. LET the docs and patients decide matters. Really. it's not the docs' decision ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #46 June 27, 2013 livendive****** Life without parole is cheaper Is this true in Texas? Not that the debate over the death penalty morality should be of cost savings (see China), but if it's still costing more to execute in Texas where 500 have been so punished, then it's never going to be cheaper than just jailing them on Alcatraz 3000. According to this article, the trial costs alone far outweigh the costs of life imprisonment, and that doesn't include the costs associated with imprisonment during the often lengthy appeals process, or the execution itself. Blues, Dave Actually the death penalty is rather cheap. QuoteCosts about $300–$950 in the first trimester Pretty sure every one so far has been innocent too.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #47 June 27, 2013 Rapidly multiplying tissue inside a woman's body doesn't become a human life till it resembles and/or is recognized as such by the host. Neither you nor I have any standing to tell her exactly how many such cells will cost her the liberty of deciding what to do with her own body. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #48 June 27, 2013 livendiveRapidly multiplying tissue inside a woman's body doesn't become a human life till it resembles and/or is recognized as such by the host. Neither you nor I have any standing to tell her exactly how many such cells will cost her the liberty of deciding what to do with her own body. Blues, Dave Again, the death penalty is cheap.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #49 June 27, 2013 turtlespeed***Rapidly multiplying tissue inside a woman's body doesn't become a human life till it resembles and/or is recognized as such by the host. Neither you nor I have any standing to tell her exactly how many such cells will cost her the liberty of deciding what to do with her own body. Blues, Dave Again, the death penalty is cheap. I disagree with your assertion. So do many others. I do not believe you have a right to force others to act in accordance with your beliefs on the matter (and vice versa). Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #50 June 27, 2013 livendive******Rapidly multiplying tissue inside a woman's body doesn't become a human life till it resembles and/or is recognized as such by the host. Neither you nor I have any standing to tell her exactly how many such cells will cost her the liberty of deciding what to do with her own body. Blues, Dave Again, the death penalty is cheap. I disagree with your assertion. So do many others. I do not believe you have a right to force others to act in accordance with your beliefs on the matter (and vice versa). Blues, Dave Death is murder when done by another's hand.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
