Really Need To Be More Careful About Whom We Let In

[Kennedy 0]

First the USA with the Tsarnaevs
https://www.google.com/search?q=tsarnaev&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Then the Canadians with the train bombers
Canada minister wants deportation review after train plot arrests


The Brits still having issues deporting criminals
Home Office fury as drug dealer immigrant wins right to stay in UK

So are we ready to take a long hard look at to whom we give visas and residency status?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 3]

Alrighty. I'll bite.

http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/FY12AnnualReport-TableI.pdf
See table 1.

So let's call that 9 million immigrants and visas last year. How many man hours did you want to spend on each one? 1? 10? 100? Just looking at rough order of magnitude of work you think is reasonable per individual.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Zep 0]

I would say as many man hours as it takes to protect the lives of American citizens.
Or would you rather put a limit on on the time it takes to investigate and just hope
the said person or persons behave themselves.

Some ethnic backgrounds should be investigated no matter how many hours it takes.

Gone fishing

[Gravitymaster 0]

How about we run background checks on all of them? Then we pass a law that says if you are caught in the US illegally, we put you in an Alaskan prison at hard labor for 20 years? Think that might slow them up a little?

[Andy9o8 0]

Immigrant xenophobia has existed ever since the Flintstones said, "Hey, who let those Neanderthals in Bedrock?"

Overheard in a cafe in Reykjavik:

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>>Please tell me that you're not suggesting about profiling entire nationalities for immigration purposes based upon a subset of the population? Even you're not that crazy.

Yes he is

[Kennedy 0]

I've never been to Reykjavik, but I've flown over it I think.

Anyway, this is what I get for not bein clear. I don't think we need to run a top secret security clearance on every guest and tourist, even those from countries with less than stellar track records. I do think we need to do a hell of a lot more before providing permanent resident status or citizenship. I also think need to pull legal status for felons and violent misdemeanants. I absolutely think that any person arrested and taken to jail should be checked for legal status. I probably should've titled the thread something like "we really need to be more careful about who we let stay."

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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I do think we need to do a hell of a lot more before providing permanent resident status or citizenship.

You may be under the misunderstanding that the US rubber stamps permanent residency and naturalization applications. If so, you are very wrong. Having been through the process myself, I can assure you that immigration spends a lot of effort on each applicant, which is why it often takes years for those applications to be approved. For example, part of the process begins with what is called a "name check": the name of every person who appears in any FBI or CIA database is entered in a a list of names, but not the reason why your name is in the file, or your birthdate, or any other identifying information. For example, if you were ever interviewed as a witness you'll be in there. I am in there because I have written recommendations for people who were applying for work at the CDC. If your name comes up, immigration then has to request the relevant files from the FBI, and someone has to read that file, find where you are mentioned, decide if the reference is to you or to someone else with the same or a similar name (they check phontic variations, especially for foreign names) and decide if you were actually the subject of an investigation. This takes a lot of time, especially considering that almost a million name check requests are generated annually. If your name check is not cleared in six months (very common), a new one is automatically generated, so if the first check is cleared in 7 months you still have to go through the whole process again. A friend of mine, from Czechoslovakia, spent over 4 years waiting for his name check to clear. During that time you can't travel outside the country, which is a big problem for a research scientist whose specialty is tropical rain forests. In my case, it only took a year and a half, all because I wrote a recommendation letter for someone.

Of course, immigration also checks with local police, police and official security agencies in the country you are immigrating from, to ensure you have a clean record. They also interview you at least twice.

In the case of the latest incident, they seem to have picked up their jihadist notions after immigrating here. How could all the background checks in the world pick up an 8 year old who will a decade later, be corrupted by his older brother?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[ryoder 1,387]

The Tsarnaevs brothers were 9yo and 15yo at the time they entered the US.
Just how much do you think a background check have pulled up on them?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Kennedy 0]

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The Tsarnaevs brothers were 9yo and 15yo at the time they entered the US.
Just how much do you think a background check have pulled up on them?

Dzhokhar was brought over when he was eight from what I can tell, not nine. Regardless, he got his citizenship 9/11/2012. You think maybe there was more of a history to him by then?
Tamerlan came over at 15 or 16 depending on whether he entered the USA before or after his birthday. I'm sure there wasn't much on him then. Since then, he'd been arrested for domestic violence, thrown out of his own mosque on more than one occasions, was verbally abusive towards his wife, read and posted radical jihadist lit and videos, texted his mother that he was willing to die for Islam, and been tagged by Russia as a possible threat and associate of "bad guys". So of course he gets permanent resident status and his citizenship is "held up" but not denied.

This is all hindsight, and I don't expect perfection from LEOs or ICE, but what DOES get someone deported these days? (if they get their initial visa that is) When do you admit thy we need to do better? When 19 jackwagons hijack planes and fly them into skyscrapers and military installations? (oops, been there, done that, too)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[quade 3]

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I would say as many man hours as it takes to protect the lives of American citizens.

The problem is, you could employ every person currently out of work in America in this effort and still not reach that goal. At some point, you have to draw a line, arbitrary as it may be, and say, "this is what we're willing to pay."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airdvr 197]

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I would say as many man hours as it takes to protect the lives of American citizens.

The problem is, you could employ every person currently out of work in America in this effort and still not reach that goal. At some point, you have to draw a line, arbitrary as it may be, and say, "this is what we're willing to pay."

And yet we can afford to run background checks on all gun buyers.

In 2013 we really should be able to keep a better eye on people. Unless you live in a cave your normal daily routine is pretty easily tracked.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[quade 3]

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And yet we can afford to run background checks on all gun buyers.

Apples and oranges. Background checks on foreigners requires significant manpower per subject to create out of thin air. Background checks on gun purchases require the permission of the NRA to use a computerized database.

I guess you're right...passing background checks on gun purchases will be harder...because of the NRA...not the function itself.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 0]

I wondered how many posts it would be until somebody turned this into a gun thread.
11 posts. Not bad; usually it's w/i 6 or 7.

[popsjumper 2]

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I wondered how many posts it would be until somebody turned this into a gun thread.
11 posts. Not bad; usually it's w/i 6 or 7.

On the good side, religion arguments are down having been replaced with gun arguments.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rickjump1 0]

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/04/i-am-an-informant-and-all-i-can-tell-you-is-that-talibans-are-walking-freely-right-here-in-the-soil-.html Wonder if these guys/girls just over stayed their student visas.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[regulator 0]

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I would say as many man hours as it takes to protect the lives of American citizens.

The problem is, you could employ every person currently out of work in America in this effort and still not reach that goal. At some point, you have to draw a line, arbitrary as it may be, and say, "this is what we're willing to pay."

Just imagine the resources required for a gun registry for 300 million weapons.

[quade 3]

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I would say as many man hours as it takes to protect the lives of American citizens.

The problem is, you could employ every person currently out of work in America in this effort and still not reach that goal. At some point, you have to draw a line, arbitrary as it may be, and say, "this is what we're willing to pay."

Just imagine the resources required for a gun registry for 300 million weapons.

Far less really. Guns are a finite item with serial numbers. Entering the item takes as long as entering the serial number; just a few seconds. At that point you have established a history from the manufacturer to the owner.

Contrast that with a human. Knowing the name is not the same thing as knowing a person's history. It takes hours and hours just to do a shitty background check, let alone one that would absolutely ensure the person isn't a terrorist.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[CygnusX-1 42]

Now if we could just get to the point where everyone in the world is issued a bar code that is tattooed on their arm, it would solve all our problems.



My new name will be Not Sure.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Now if we could just get to the point where everyone in the world is issued a bar code that is tattooed on their arm, it would solve all our problems.

And they've already done the beta testing!

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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Now if we could just get to the point where everyone in the world is issued a bar code that is tattooed on their arm, it would solve all our problems.



My new name will be Not Sure.

Microchips would be better. That way, the "goobermint" could put readers on every street corner and track us wherever we go.

Of course in my case anyone following me would get bored in a hurry. Now he's going to work. And now he's going home. And then to work. and then home...

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Kennedy 0]

Wouldn't it be worth it to check with other countries who want to share intelligence on threats?

We've established that Russia sent two warnings, first to the FBI, and when that failed to accomplish anything, to the CIA.

Also, Saudi Arabia not only sent us written warning about Tamerlan, they actually denied him an entry visa.
EXCLUSIVE: Saudi Arabia 'warned the United States IN WRITING about Boston Bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2012
Meanwhile we hadn't even denied him citizenship, let alone investigated him. We really need to get past all this pussyfooting when it comes to investigating threats.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*