A foreign view of America

[Stumpy 256]

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Anyone who thinks passing laws will make criminals more likely to obey them is living on another Planet. Or in this case, another country.

Right about the country, wrong (yet AGAIN) about my point. This is about making it harder for those who shouldn't have guns to buy them. It doesn't affect "Law abiding" gun owners any more than buying from a store does now. At the moment, there is no real point having background checks AT ALL because those they would catch will just go private. Making it that little bit harder for those that shouldn't have guns is what more than 90% of the country understand is a good thing. Its a shame that its too difficult for the remaining <10% to understand.

More of the usual blather from down under. Now tell us specifically
how that can be done.

Rushmc gave a great option a little while back that is already working in some places. However I strongly suspect you will conveniently ignore that too.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Stumpy 256]

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I'm sorry, what was that specific plan you have? Oh, that's right, you don't and neither does Stimpy.

Stumpy - he's short, not a cat.

How you doing bro? Long time no see.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[skypuppy 1]

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That's not your view, Wendy. That's how it happened. If people want to believe in their hearts other nonsense, all power to them. They're entitled to have faith in any belief they want.

So clearly prior to the Bill of Rights coming into effect, slaves and women had an inherrent right to free speech and the bearing of arms?

Was it then the Bill of Rights and the Constitution that took these rights away from them, or did they just not have these rights to begin with?

If they didn't have these rights to begin with, then how are they inherrent rights simply just confirmed in writing?

you guys all like to talk like the southern states invented slavery and all things bad. Can we think a moment? Where did white Europeans learn about slavery? They encountered black slave owners in africa among other places who actually decided they could sell the Europeans some slaves to increase their productivity in the colonies. It wasn't just Americans. Pretty much all European nations used slaves at some point. Some European nations gave up on slavery before the states, but it still took decades after the civil war was lost before most if not all nations gave up on using slaves, and some nations still do. The states were by no means the worst perpetrators of the slave trade and considering how long ago it does, it certainly doesn't do your present day arguments a lot good trying to dredge up ghosts of slavery in the now.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Andy9o8 0]

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Where did white Europeans learn about slavery?

Well, the Bible is basically like a big Sears Catalog of slaves.
And concubines. Let's not forget them.

[Stumpy 256]

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Where did white Europeans learn about slavery?

Well, the Bible is basically like a big Sears Catalog of slaves.
And concubines. Let's not forget them.

[Homer]mmmm concubines [/homer]

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[wmw999 2,122]

So your contention is that the white Europeans wouldn't have come up with slavery without having encountered it in Africa? Really?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[quade 3]

Nobody said anything about the South.

We're talking about whether rights are "natural" or a construct of a society.

However, admitting slavery existed in the South, pretty much blows the "natural" argument out of the water. If a society says you don't have rights, then functionally, you don't.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skypuppy 1]

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So your contention is that the white Europeans wouldn't have come up with slavery without having encountered it in Africa? Really?

Wendy P.

what I'm saying is american in the southern states are no more guilty of anything than most of the world;s civilizations in the past or at the time. North american indians enslaved other tribes all the time, it was practices by Incas and Mayans, and by Egyptians and Greeks and Romans and by south Asian cultures. Americans gave it up after some and before others, and it still goes on today in parts of the world.

But at some point you have stop saying that southerners (as in americans from the south) are (or even were, relative to others) bad people and therefore to be discounted by 'enlightened progressives' because they held slaves before the 1870's.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[quade 3]

Well hell, might as well start genocide then too... People have done that before so it can't be all bad.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Kennedy 0]

[donning asshole hat]
Shoot, not only have gold done it before, folks in the bible did it. Because god told them to. When he didn't feel like doing it himself. Sure, why not just a little bit more?
[doffs hat, still alleged to be an asshole, flees thread]

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 2,400]

>So your contention is that the white Europeans wouldn't have come up with slavery
>without having encountered it in Africa?

Exactly. The Europeans were all "hey, hop on the boat and we'll take you to the New World where you can live your life free from interference!"

Then an African tribal leader spoke up and said "We get Kunta to shine shoes. And he take out trash when we beat him."

And with that they herded them all below decks, locked the hatches and created the English word "slave."

[kallend 1,623]

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>So your contention is that the white Europeans wouldn't have come up with slavery
>without having encountered it in Africa?

Exactly. The Europeans were all "hey, hop on the boat and we'll take you to the New World where you can live your life free from interference!"

Then an African tribal leader spoke up and said "We get Kunta to shine shoes. And he take out trash when we beat him."

And with that they herded them all below decks, locked the hatches and created the English word "slave."

960: Doge of Venice Pietro IV Candiano reconvened the popular assembly and had it approve of a law prohibiting the slave trade
1102: Trade in slaves and serfdom ruled illegal in London: Council of London (1102)
1117: Slavery abolished in Iceland
1200: Slavery virtually disappears in Japan; it was never widespread and mostly involved captives taken in civil wars.
1214: The Statute of the Town of Korula (Croatia) abolishes slavery.
1215: Magna Carta signed. Clause 30, commonly known as Habeas Corpus, would form the basis of a law against slavery in English common law.
1256: The Liber Paradisus is promulgated. The Comune di Bologna abolishes slavery and serfdom and releases all the serfs in its territories.
1274: Landslova (Land's Law) in Norway mentions only former slaves, which indicates that slavery was abolished in Norway
1315: Louis X, king of France, publishes a decree proclaiming that "France" signifies freedom and that any slave setting foot on the French ground should be freed
1335: Sweden (including Finland at the time) makes slavery illegal. Though this is not enacted. A true abolition of slavery does not occur until 1813.
1416: Republic of Ragusa (modern day Dubrovnik, Croatia) abolished slavery and slave trading
1435: Papal Encyclical - Sicut Dudum - of Pope Eugene IV banning enslavement on pain of excommunication.

All these prior to 1492

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 0]

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1117: Slavery abolished in Iceland

Yeah, not much cotton pickin' going on there.

[skypuppy 1]

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>So your contention is that the white Europeans wouldn't have come up with slavery
>without having encountered it in Africa?

Exactly. The Europeans were all "hey, hop on the boat and we'll take you to the New World where you can live your life free from interference!"

Then an African tribal leader spoke up and said "We get Kunta to shine shoes. And he take out trash when we beat him."

And with that they herded them all below decks, locked the hatches and created the English word "slave."

Traders, businessmen, African slavers and slaves each had a unique experience and involvement in the business of the transatlantic slave trade. This lucrative process, that lasted between 1500 to 1870 AD included three different hemispheres: Europe, Africa, and the Americas, specifically Jamaica. In Africa slavery existed long before European exposure, however, over time the motivation for slavery changed. Originally slavery existed because of the expanding of African territories or the need to pay off debts. Europeans, during their attempts to make a shorter trade route to India and Asia, encountered the African custom and adopted it. Therefore, the Europeans filled their pockets with goods from West Coast Africa, including human cargo. Those persons who were captured were auctioned to other Europeans in Western Africa, and then shipped to European colonial lands including Jamaica. The slaves were then put to work on a plantation-based colony, whose goods were sent back to its mother country. The triangular system perpetuated the demand for slaves by Europeans in order to increase their country’s wealth. Throughout all of the shipping of goods, including human cargo, individual people were involved in the evolution of the transatlantic trade. The main focus of this paper is to see the overall dynamics of the system, and involvement of individuals and countries, like Jamaica. The evolution and immersion of the transatlantic slave trade not only strengthened capitalism for individuals and their countries, but in turn it weakened Africa and Jamaica by making it dependent economically on outside nations.

The slave trade in Africa began long before the introduction of Europeans. Africans would enslave people for different reasons contrary to the modern stereotype, profit. According to the memoirs of an Italian born French slave trader, Captain Theodore Canot (also spelled Canneau) there are five principles for the enslavement of Africans by other Africans. The first reason for slavery was the prisoner of war. War between rival communities over land or for other fractions left people who were captured. These people were mainly adopted into the new culture, in order to increase the power of the dominant society; they were not only used for labor purposes.

War between communities was not the only means of fighting that caused slavery. The second principle concerns fighting between family members. If a household becomes too upset by a certain member of the family, the remaining members have the option to sell the troublemaker into slavery. This in turn would solve the familial problem, as well as enable profit for the family and the individual. The family gains wealth and goods, as the individual is able to learn how to control oneself as well as gain a sense of responsibility.

Debt proved to be another main resource for the buying and selling of people in Africa, which is the third principle. "In Africa, where coin is not known, the slave is made a substitute for this commodity, and in each district a positive value is given him which is passed for currency and legal tender." There are cases of parents having to sell their kin because they were in such debt, as well as people selling themselves into slavery for a certain amount of time. These were not uncommon forms that shaped the familiar frame of African tradition.

The fourth principle of African slavery, according to Captain Canneau, contained those "inculpated with witchcraft, the Crim Con [criminal conviction] cases (not few in Africa), orphans of culprits, vagabonds who dare not to return to their tribes, and unruly sons." This shows a more focused rationalization to the enslavement of others, rather than just random selection. However, some of these are not acquired through choice but rather by birth, which proves to be a correlating perquisite to the American slave system.

Finally, Canneau states that gamblers were the fifth principle to the evolution to slavery. This however, was evident after the introduction of Europeans. The gamblers mainly focused on trading for their own personal gain, which will be discussed later. Nonetheless, Africans take chances on selling each other in order to try to make their life situation better. A primary example of this is the selling of a handicapped child in order for the father to buy a new wife in hopes of having a ‘normal’ offspring.

Slavery was not an uncommon theme in African life; nevertheless, the introduction to the European world changed the dynamics and motivation for African enslavement. The Portuguese, under the leadership of Prince Henry the Navigator, were among the first Europeans to ‘discover’ Africa. Europeans were trying desperately to find a new route to Asia and other middle-Eastern countries in order to speed up their trade. "Portugal which had the important advantage of being a politically united kingdom, looked for a route round Africa partly to extend the crusade against the ‘infidel’ Turks and partly to seek whatever material rewards might lie in wait." The Portuguese then established themselves in Africa during the late fifteenth century. Initially the attraction to Africa was the abundance of gold. The Portuguese were the first to establish trade with the Africans, and they set up their first colony. "Colonizing before 1480 the [Portuguese staked claim in] the Atlantic islands of Azores, Madeira and Cape Verde as well as Sao Tome in West Africa."

"Other Europeans, notably the Spaniards, had also developed an interest.. with the result that by 1500 some 175,000 Africans had been shipped from Africa to Europe." Quickly the attraction to African gold ceased and the main focus turned to slavery. The European countries learned that the use of human bondage could increase their profit margins in their new colonies in the Americas. They deduced that Africans could work on the plantations, which would in turn greaten the wealth of the country. "In the early seventeenth century the governments of northern Europe, particularly England, France and the Netherlands, whose traders were already participating in a small way, began seizing land on a large scale in America and the Caribbean for slave-labor colonies."

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[rickjump1 0]

Your British relatives did not abolish slavery throughout the British Empire until 1833; long after 1492.
Slavery Abolition Act 1833

Long title

An Act for the Abolition of Slavery throughout the British Colonies; for promoting the Industry of the manumitted Slaves; and for compensating the Persons hitherto entitled to the Services of such Slaves.



Chapter

3 & 4 Will.4 c.73



Dates



Royal Assent

28 August 1833



Commencement

1 August 1834
1 December 1834 (Cape of Good Hope)
1 February 1835 (Mauritius)



Repeal date

19 November 1998



Other legislation



Related legislation

Slave Trade Act 1807, Slave Trade Act 1824, Slave Trade Act 1843, Slave Trade Act 1873



Repealing legislation

Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1998



Status: Repealed



Text of statute as originally enacted


The Slavery Abolition Act 1833 (citation 3 & 4 Will. IV c. 73) was an 1833 Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom abolishing slavery throughout the British Empire (with the exceptions "of the Territories in the Possession of the East India Company," the "Island of Ceylon," and "the Island of Saint Helena"; the exceptions were eliminated in 1843).[1] The Act was repealed in 1998 as part of a wider rationalisation of English statute law, but later anti-slavery legislation remains in force.

In 1772, Lord Mansfield's judgement in the Somersett's Case emancipated a slave in England, which helped launch the movement to abolish slavery.[2] The case ruled that slavery was unsupported by law in England and Scotland, and no authority could be exercised on slaves entering English or Scottish soil.[3] In 1785, English poet William Cowper wrote:


"We have no slaves at home – Then why abroad? Slaves cannot breathe in England; if their lungs receive our air, that moment they are free. They touch our country, and their shackles fall. That's noble, and bespeaks a nation proud. And jealous of the blessing. Spread it then, And let it circulate through every vein."[4]

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[skypuppy 1]

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>So your contention is that the white Europeans wouldn't have come up with slavery
>without having encountered it in Africa?

Exactly. The Europeans were all "hey, hop on the boat and we'll take you to the New World where you can live your life free from interference!"

Then an African tribal leader spoke up and said "We get Kunta to shine shoes. And he take out trash when we beat him."

And with that they herded them all below decks, locked the hatches and created the English word "slave."

960: Doge of Venice Pietro IV Candiano reconvened the popular assembly and had it approve of a law prohibiting the slave trade
1102: Trade in slaves and serfdom ruled illegal in London: Council of London (1102)
1117: Slavery abolished in Iceland
1200: Slavery virtually disappears in Japan; it was never widespread and mostly involved captives taken in civil wars.
1214: The Statute of the Town of Korula (Croatia) abolishes slavery.
1215: Magna Carta signed. Clause 30, commonly known as Habeas Corpus, would form the basis of a law against slavery in English common law.
1256: The Liber Paradisus is promulgated. The Comune di Bologna abolishes slavery and serfdom and releases all the serfs in its territories.
1274: Landslova (Land's Law) in Norway mentions only former slaves, which indicates that slavery was abolished in Norway
1315: Louis X, king of France, publishes a decree proclaiming that "France" signifies freedom and that any slave setting foot on the French ground should be freed
1335: Sweden (including Finland at the time) makes slavery illegal. Though this is not enacted. A true abolition of slavery does not occur until 1813.
1416: Republic of Ragusa (modern day Dubrovnik, Croatia) abolished slavery and slave trading
1435: Papal Encyclical - Sicut Dudum - of Pope Eugene IV banning enslavement on pain of excommunication.

All these prior to 1492

many of these also predate 1492, or the african explorations of europeans...

In Senegambia, between 1300 and 1900, close to one-third of the population was enslaved. In early Islamic states of the western Sudan, including Ghana (750–1076), Mali (1235–1645), Segou (1712–1861), and Songhai (1275–1591), about a third of the population were slaves. In Sierra Leone in the 19th century about half of the population consisted of slaves. In the 19th century at least half the population was enslaved among the Duala of the Cameroon, the Igbo and other peoples of the lower Niger, the Kongo, and the Kasanje kingdom and Chokwe of Angola. Among the Ashanti and Yoruba a third of the population consisted of slaves. The population of the Kanem was about a third-slave. It was perhaps 40% in Bornu (1396–1893). Between 1750 and 1900 from one- to two-thirds of the entire population of the Fulani jihad states consisted of slaves. The population of the Sokoto caliphate formed by Hausas in the northern Nigeria and Cameroon was half-slave in the 19th century. It is estimated that up to 90% of the population of Arab-Swahili Zanzibar was enslaved. Roughly half the population of Madagascar was enslaved

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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That's not your view, Wendy. That's how it happened. If people want to believe in their hearts other nonsense, all power to them. They're entitled to have faith in any belief they want.

So clearly prior to the Bill of Rights coming into effect, slaves and women had an inherrent right to free speech and the bearing of arms?

Was it then the Bill of Rights and the Constitution that took these rights away from them, or did they just not have these rights to begin with?

If they didn't have these rights to begin with, then how are they inherrent rights simply just confirmed in writing?

you guys all like to talk like the southern states invented slavery and all things bad. Can we think a moment? Where did white Europeans learn about slavery? They encountered black slave owners in africa among other places who actually decided they could sell the Europeans some slaves to increase their productivity in the colonies. It wasn't just Americans. Pretty much all European nations used slaves at some point. Some European nations gave up on slavery before the states, but it still took decades after the civil war was lost before most if not all nations gave up on using slaves, and some nations still do. The states were by no means the worst perpetrators of the slave trade and considering how long ago it does, it certainly doesn't do your present day arguments a lot good trying to dredge up ghosts of slavery in the now.

So, did they have the right to free speech and the right to bear arms?

If not, then how can they be inherrent rights?

[Skyrad 0]

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1117: Slavery abolished in Iceland

Yeah, not much cotton pickin' going on there.

LMAO!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[br0k3n 0]

You only like the article because it uses the word "heinous" ....

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[CornishChris 5]

This is true dude. Ben uses the word all the time now!

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people