A Bery Big Difference?

[billvon 2,426]

>>You have just described democracy.....

>Sounds more like socialism

Socialism is an economic system, not a system of government.

Democracy involves voting, where a central governmental entity tells you what everyone else thinks about who should be your government officials - and then does that even if you don't want them to. They use these "elections" all the time as a political lever to sway the entire course of the country.

You may not like it, and it is not perfect - it's just better than most other systems out there.

[Remster 24]

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Sounds more like socialism

I think we need a Godwin's2.0 law.

Remster

[rushmc 18]

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>The very,very,very few who are in favor of more gun control do however make the most noise

Most Americans support more gun control. Gun nuts make the most noise. Most people don't make much noise - they just don't care all that much,

It appears your sources have let you down
And you even post your comment and this link is in the first post

Why?
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gallup-only-4-americans-think-gun-control-important-problem

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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>You got that right,they are more worried about dancing with the
>stars,survivor,and other unreality reality television.

Yep. Or getting a job, or paying their rent, or getting through the week. Political activism is for people with a lot of time on their hands.

We already have back ground checks

and even Biden has stated the enhanced back ground check would not have stopped sandy hook

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,426]

>>Yep. Or getting a job, or paying their rent, or getting through the week. Political activism is for people with a lot of time on their hands.

>We already have back ground checks


?? Were you responding to someone else's post?

[rushmc 18]

No
Just picked your latest post

BTW
Is this one of polls that you reference about public gun control support?
http://www.publiusforum.com/2013/03/18/abcs-latest-misleading-gun-poll/

Then there is this poll that looks at how Obama is addressing gun control

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Polls the media coordinate to cover up, though, are much more telling, especially the one released today showing that 52% of the American people disapprove of Obama on the issue of gun control.

Buried five paragraphs into a Wednesday Associated Press article…

Just over half the public - 52 percent - expressed disapproval in the new survey of how President Barack Obama has handled gun laws. Weeks after the Newtown slayings, Obama made a call for near universal background checks the heart of his gun control plan.

Links in the attached url

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Hot Air's Ed Morrissey adds:

This comes from the same poll that gives Obama a 49/43 approval rating on immigration, so it’s not merely the result of an outlier sample. Furthermore, while Democrats have been obsessing over gun-control proposals that would have had no impact on the incidents exploited by them in the push, the rest of America has been left wondering about their priorities

and the gallup poll listed earlier is up thread
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/17/Poll-52-Percent-Disapprove-Of-Obamas-Handling-of-Gun-Control

So

It appears Obama is a liar when is comes to this topic

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[toolbox 0]

Yes I know how democracy works,but abiding by laws that our elected representatives enact for us to live by and being told how we should all think is vastly different.
Voting in an election and taking a poll may be similar,but still not the same.
An election,or legislation is not used as a lever to sway how you form an opinion,they are the result of the expression of your opinion through your vote.
An answer on a poll on the other hand is not a vote to enact anything,or elect anyone.
A poll is the expression of opinions by those participating in the poll,and those opinions can be used, and often are used like a lever to sway the the thinking of the rest of society.
The lever works by telling people that everyone else feels this way,so why don't you feel the same.
Having every citizen think the same way is a tool and goal of socialism,not democracy.
By the way, the government doesn't tell us how everyone else thinks,the government tells us with legislation what the majority has decided on.
51% could be a majority,but it is not all.

[kallend 1,644]

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>Saying this does not make it true.

you use a liberal minded news source like CNN as an example of objective reporting
Thats like saying fox news will give objective reporting embracing both conservative and liberal views

ACTUALLY Fox reported the exact same thing.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[toolbox 0]

>Fox reported the exact same thing.

I do not care what some poll says.
95 percent of the people I know are against more restrictive gun laws.
They feel as I do,that none of these proposed new laws would have prevented a tragedy like sandy hook,nor would they prevent any gangs or other criminals from getting guns.
Rather these laws would punish law abiding citizens and trample upon the 2nd amendment.
The current laws are not enforced as they should be,so lets start there.
The legislators seem to agree with me and most of the people I know.
I do not know anyone who has been in a gun poll,so why should I believe the polls.
They could draw the participants from liberal colleges for all I know.

[Stumpy 256]

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>Fox reported the exact same thing.

I do not care what some poll says.

So you would rather believe your own anecdotal evidence than numerous polls from both side of the fence that disagree with you.

Got it. Logical reasoning clearly not your strong point.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[toolbox 0]

>So you would rather believe your own anecdotal evidence than numerous polls from both sides of the fence that disagree with you.

First off,the law makers have voted against the proposed new legislation,and I'm happy with this,as are most of the people I know.
As far as which side of the political fence you think I'm on,I am on neither.
I'm not a big supporter of liberals or conservatives,but sometimes either of them might support my views.
If one or the other supports my view, then I'll take that support,if they do not support it, then why should I listen to their BS.
Where do they get the people for these polls anyway?
Are they city dwellers,or from the rural areas?
How many people do they poll?
They sure aren't using the whole population in these polls,so how do you know they are realistic in their results?
Are these polls using letters,e-mails,and phone calls from people to their representatives?
I listen to people I know or meet here where I live,or where I travel.
Most of them share my own views on the gun debate and that is from their own lips,not from some poll that could very easily be skewed for whatever reasons.

[DanG 1]

I'd be willing to bet that about 48% of the population disapproves of how Obama ties his shoes. Your polls do not mean what you think they mean.

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

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I'd be willing to bet that about 48% of the population disapproves of how Obama ties his shoes. Your polls do not mean what you think they mean.

Well then
Please tell us what they do mean

Oh, and I want a source on the 48% and Obama shoes

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 0]

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Where do they get the people for these polls anyway?
Are they city dwellers,or from the rural areas?
How many people do they poll?
They sure aren't using the whole population in these polls,so how do you know they are realistic in their results?
Are these polls using letters,e-mails,and phone calls from people to their representatives?

And...here's your answer. Google is your friend. Took about 15 seconds.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/101872/how-does-gallup-polling-work.aspx

[DanG 1]

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Please tell us what they do mean

Your poll that says 4% of people say that gun control is a very important issue says that people have other things on their mind. It doesn't say anything about how they feel about the issue, only that it is not their top priority. And, BTW, I'm being generous and assuming that the poll was legitimate and your reporting of the results was accurate. For all I know the poll question could have been, "When fleeing for your life from a burning building, do you stop to think about gun control?"

Your poll that 51% (or whatever it was) of people disapprove of how Obama is handling gun control could mean any number of thing. You took it to mean that 51% of people don't want gun control, but some of those people (no one knows how many) could actually be disappointed that Obama isn't pushing for even more strict controls. It could also mean that some people disagree with everything Obama does, because that's just what they do. I even heard a right-wing talk show host criticize Obama for going to Boston today because it would pull hard working cops off of the investigation. Some people will come up with an angle to shit on Obama no matter what he does.

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Oh, and I want a source on the 48% and Obama shoes

You're joking, right?

- Dan G

[toolbox 0]

So they ask 1,000 people over the phone how they stand on given issues and then use the findings to represent the rest of the voting age adults in the country.
If this is so accurate then why not just poll 1,000 people instead of having all those expensive elections involving all the voters in the country.
1,000 is a very small number even if there are only 100,000 voters in a country it is just 1% polled.
Lets see there were 129,064,662 voters in the 2012 US presidential election.
Divide 1,000 by 129,064,662 and you get a very small % polled.
I bet taco bell,or subway uses millions of individuals in their polls,since many times they offer free tacos,or cookies with an online pollbut when it come to business and profits you need to be more accurate.

[Andy9o8 0]

You're simply determined to dismiss it out-of-hand, by any rationalization. No thought process; just dismissal. Whatever.

[turtlespeed 212]

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I am distrustful of any entity that tries to tell us what we all think.
I do not know one person personally who has been polled by the way.
They use these polls all the time as a political lever to try and sway the trends.

That kind of thinking is paranoid and irrational.

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't conspiring against you.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Andy9o8 0]

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I am distrustful of any entity that tries to tell us what we all think.
I do not know one person personally who has been polled by the way.
They use these polls all the time as a political lever to try and sway the trends.

That kind of thinking is paranoid and irrational.

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't conspiring against you.

[rehmwa 2]

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So they ask 1,000 people over the phone how they stand on given issues and then use the findings to represent the rest of the voting age adults in the country.

You have to do a couple more things in this case.

1 - consider the type of person that is willing to take the time to respond to the poll. A small portion of the population fits that bill already. And they are likely to be a bit more 'activist' in their inclinations. And anything that's a social manipulation question is likely to drive the two extremes to 50/50 or only get responses from those outraged. question anything 50/50, or extremely one sided....

2 - the rest that don't answer are probably predominantly happy or neutral with the status quo.

sampling method is VERY important. so it understanding the group of people that refuse to answer. But, as a minimum, I'd rather know 3 numbers, not 2. Position 1 vs Position 2 vs declined to respond at all.

We can all infer what we think that 3rd group thinks. But based on the Senate vote, I suspect we can make a good guess.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Southern_Man 0]

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So they ask 1,000 people over the phone how they stand on given issues and then use the findings to represent the rest of the voting age adults in the country.
If this is so accurate then why not just poll 1,000 people instead of having all those expensive elections involving all the voters in the country.
1,000 is a very small number even if there are only 100,000 voters in a country it is just 1% polled.
Lets see there were 129,064,662 voters in the 2012 US presidential election.
Divide 1,000 by 129,064,662 and you get a very small % polled.
I bet taco bell,or subway uses millions of individuals in their polls,since many times they offer free tacos,or cookies with an online pollbut when it come to business and profits you need to be more accurate.

The margin of error in a sample decreases as the size of the sample increases. The size of the total population is not important in determining the margin of error. Generally you have to quadruple the size of the sample to 1/2 the size of the margin of error. This is all Statistics 101.

There can be issues with getting a representative sample.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[toolbox 0]

I am sure you are a smart individual,and I'm not being a wise ass in saying this.
So why do they poll on issues like gun control anyway?
When companies poll consumers,say after purchase,they are trying to find out how to make them happy and increase the companies profit by getting the customer to buy again,and the results are not made public unless the results can sell for example more trucks or something by saying things like"Chevy trucks,most popular truck sold"and get consumers to drink the koolaid.
I feel that these polls about political issues are used alot as a means to sway peoples opinions.
I know that political parties like to use polls so they can get a feel for wether or not their tactics are working or not,but why do they release the results of polls on public opinion to the public on issues like abortion,gun control,ect...?
I think the answer is to sway public opinion. If they are trying to sway our opinion, then why not skew the poll in favor of their cause eh?

[toolbox 0]

statistics,that was almost as boring as sociologyI still got A's in both,but enjoyed A&P and Micro biology,and was fond of chemistry as well.Psychology was hard for me to understand at first since it is not black and white science,but it gave me a better understanding of the herd mentality and the power of peer pressure.
I feel that these polls about political opinions that are released to the public especially through news agencies are released to sway public opinion,it's just like advertising tactics.
Everyone else uses brand X so why are you still using Y

[Southern_Man 0]

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statistics,that was almost as boring as sociologyI still got A's in both,but enjoyed A&P and Micro biology,and was fond of chemistry as well.Psychology was hard for me to understand at first since it is not black and white science,but it gave me a better understanding of the herd mentality and the power of peer pressure.
I feel that these polls about political opinions that are released to the public especially through news agencies are released to sway public opinion,it's just like advertising tactics.
Everyone else uses brand X so why are you still using Y

There are thousands of polling organizations. There are certainly some who take and release biased numbers in order to sway opinions or for some other reason. However your claim was that the poll was invalid because the sample was not a large enough proportion of the total population. That does not reflect a very good understanding of statistics.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Andy9o8 0]

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So why do they poll on issues like gun control anyway?

One purpose is for market/issue research, where the results are generally not made public. The client has a high interest in keeping this type of poll accurate, since they may act in reliance upon its results.

A second purpose is to deliberately sway public opinion. Obviously, that's not going to be objective.

A third purpose is journalistic reporting. If done by a news medium with either an issue-bias or a general bias, the results must obviously be scrutinized for potential bias; sometimes the bias will be there, sometimes it won't.
If done by an independent polling company whose brand name depends on its reputation for sound methodology and objectivity, then, in theory at least, the poll-taker has an interest in keeping the poll as neutral and accurate as possible.