Electric cars = 3112 sales ,Ford F series = 55025 in June

[brenthutch 384]

Whatever happened to 1,000,000 plug-in hybrids by 2015?

It looks as if it bumped into something I like to call reality--at a tax payer cost of five BILLION dollars. Just think, we could have given every public school teacher an $1100 raise if we had just invested in our children instead.


http://news.investors.com/article/594198/201112081844/obamas-electric-car-dream-short-circuits.htm

[url]http://insideevs.com/june-2012-plug-in-electric-vehicle-sales/

http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2012/07/03/top_selling_cars_and_trucks_in_the_us_in_june/[/url]
http://www.bls.gov/k12/help01.htm

[jclalor 12]

Whatever happened to 1,000,000 plug-in hybrids by 2015?


http://www.green-energy-efficient-homes.com/hybrid-car-sales-statistics.html

[billvon 2,400]

>Electric cars = 3112 sales

GM sold 8800 Volts this year _alone_ - and the year's only half over. Have you been reading FOX News again?

In any case: Hybrid sales = 2,500,000 so far. 3% of all vehicles sold in 2012 so far. Remember when hybrids were considered a big joke by right wingers, driven only by smug environmentalists? "Too bad environmentalists don't understand reality - no one will pay that much money for a battery they have to replace in 5 years!"

[airdvr 197]

Quote

>Electric cars = 3112 sales

GM sold 8800 Volts this year _alone_ - and the year's only half over. Have you been reading FOX News again?

In any case: Hybrid sales = 2,500,000 so far. 3% of all vehicles sold in 2012 so far. Remember when hybrids were considered a big joke by right wingers, driven only by smug environmentalists? "Too bad environmentalists don't understand reality - no one will pay that much money for a battery they have to replace in 5 years!"

How many Volts would have been sold had the goobermint not been propping them up?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[airdvr 197]

Quote

In any case: Hybrid sales = 2,500,000 so far. 3% of all vehicles sold in 2012 so far

Cite please.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>Electric cars = 3112 sales

GM sold 8800 Volts this year _alone_ - and the year's only half over. Have you been reading FOX News again?

What part of "in June" did you miss - have you been watching MSNBC again?

Quote

In any case: Hybrid sales = 2,500,000 so far.

In any case: EVInsider (one of the OP's links) reports the following sales for June:
Volt: 1760
Leaf: 535
Prius: 695
Focus: 89
Mitsu: 33

Add them all up and you get... 3112 sales for June...imagine that.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,400]

>How many Volts would have been sold had the goobermint not been propping them up?

Probably zero. Same for hybrids.

[billvon 2,400]

>Cite please.

Wikipedia:

============
The top selling hybrid car in the U.S. is the Toyota Prius, with 1 million units sold in the country by April 2011. As of December 2011 the Prius had sold 1,091,564 units, followed by the Honda Civic Hybrid, with cumulative sales of 209,216 vehicles since 2002, and the Toyota Camry Hybrid, with 178,805 units sold since 2006. The top seller in the U.S. by an American manufacturer is the Ford Escape Hybrid, with cumulative sales of 116,556 vehicles since 2004, followed by the Fusion Hybrid, with sales of 47,656 units since 2009. Since their inception in 1999, a total of 2,340,866 hybrids have been sold in the country through May 2012.
===========

Hybrid % of all vehicles 2012 CYTD 3.07%

[brenthutch 384]

Quote

>Cite please.

Wikipedia:

============
The top selling hybrid car in the U.S. is the Toyota Prius, with 1 million units sold in the country by April 2011. As of December 2011 the Prius had sold 1,091,564 units, followed by the Honda Civic Hybrid, with cumulative sales of 209,216 vehicles since 2002, and the Toyota Camry Hybrid, with 178,805 units sold since 2006. The top seller in the U.S. by an American manufacturer is the Ford Escape Hybrid, with cumulative sales of 116,556 vehicles since 2004, followed by the Fusion Hybrid, with sales of 47,656 units since 2009. Since their inception in 1999, a total of 2,340,866 hybrids have been sold in the country through May 2012.
===========

Hybrid % of all vehicles 2012 CYTD 3.07%

You can tell that Bill and Kalland drink from the same well (of koolaid) they conflate US temps with the global temps and June auto sales with YTD auto sales.

[billvon 2,400]

>You can tell that Bill and Kalland drink from the same well (of koolaid) they conflate
>US temps with the global temps and June auto sales with YTD auto sales.

Not reading posts before you answer them, I see.

[billeisele 122]

read the tea leaves, the government will continue creating policy that drives up the cost of whatever it is they want stopped to obtain the end result they want

two examples on the list are gas guzzling vehicles and coal plants, to be replaced with significantly more costly electric vehicles and distributed generation - damn the torpedos full steam ahead

they are currently wasting billions on alternative fuels, solar, propane air plants, natural gas generators, and wind power, under the mantra of national security and energy security, it's amazing how willing folks are to follow a path laid out for them rather than use their brains and ask basic questions like, "does this really make any sense"

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[billvon 2,400]

>they are currently wasting billions on alternative fuels, solar, propane air plants,
>natural gas generators, and wind power, under the mantra of national security and
>energy security, it's amazing how willing folks are to follow a path laid out for them
>rather than use their brains and ask basic questions like, "does this really make any
>sense"

In the 1970's and 1980's few people thought that fuel injection made sense. Many thought that emissions controls and CAFE laws would bankrupt companies, require everyone to drive sub-sub compacts and shut down the US auto industry.

Turns out that in the long run it made sense.

In the 1990's conservatives were fervently against hybrid vehicles. A waste of money. They'd never work. The batteries will die. They'll be too expensive. People buy them just to be smug. Smart people never will buy them. They make no sense.

Turns out that they've sold millions - and nowadays car companies are adopting hybrid technology to sell more cars.

In the 1990's conservatives were strongly against alternative energy. Wind power, solar power, biomass, you name it. They were wastes of money. Just drill more holes in the ground and stop wasting all our time!

20 years later over 10% of our electricity comes from renewables.

It's often a mistake to bet against progress - even if that progress disagrees with your idea of where we should be going.

[wmw999 2,123]

Because our infrastructure supports gasoline vehicles and coal-powered plants, the true cost (i.e. including disposal etc) is masked -- it's what we've always done. But it still exists. The outflow from oil production and refinement is significant -- it's just been there so long that we don't think about it.

Kind of like the outflow from big-farm meat production. Look at how pork is produce in factory farms, imagine living close to one, and ask yourself if the cheap price of pork is realistic. Convenient maybe, but not realistic. It spreads the disposal of all the pigshit etc. among everyone who's downstream of the pig farms.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[airdvr 197]

Funny you should write this as you and your liberal ilk destroyed nuclear energy in the US.

Or your wonderful work with welfare, creating generations who can't function in society and are totally dependant upon their Uncle for the juice they so desperately need.

Been to the projects lately? Bet you've never been within a mile of the heart of one.

Don't pontificate about progress when you live in a glass house.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[brenthutch 384]

I am not against anything, I am for things that work and not a big fan things that don't. I would be a big fan of fairy dust and unicorn farts, if they worked but regrettably they don’t. Unfortunately the opportunity costs are so ....costly. Don’t you understand that one doesn’t get points for one’s heart being in the right place? One must have the discipline to distinguish between the things that works and the things that don’t .

[billeisele 122]

Quote

>they are currently wasting billions on alternative fuels, solar, propane air plants,
>natural gas generators, and wind power, under the mantra of national security and
>energy security, it's amazing how willing folks are to follow a path laid out for them
>rather than use their brains and ask basic questions like, "does this really make any
>sense"

In the 1970's and 1980's few people thought that fuel injection made sense. Many thought that emissions controls and CAFE laws would bankrupt companies, require everyone to drive sub-sub compacts and shut down the US auto industry.

Turns out that in the long run it made sense.

In the 1990's conservatives were fervently against hybrid vehicles. A waste of money. They'd never work. The batteries will die. They'll be too expensive. People buy them just to be smug. Smart people never will buy them. They make no sense.

Turns out that they've sold millions - and nowadays car companies are adopting hybrid technology to sell more cars.

In the 1990's conservatives were strongly against alternative energy. Wind power, solar power, biomass, you name it. They were wastes of money. Just drill more holes in the ground and stop wasting all our time!

20 years later over 10% of our electricity comes from renewables.

It's often a mistake to bet against progress - even if that progress disagrees with your idea of where we should be going.

the reply mixes apples and oranges, about 14% of energy is from renewables but 60% of that is hydro - which means about 6% is from the non-economical stuff I'm specifically talking about, I agree that wind and solar are economical in some areas without subsidies, what is the tax treatment on solar in CA, how many foks would put the stuff in if the tax treatment wasn't there?

the issue is that the average cost of that 6% far exceeds the cost of the traditional power, the excess cost is paid by all through taxes, DSM fees, and other fancy words all describing a taking from one to give to another

specifically in SC there is a state tax credit for installing solar, a bunch of earth saving self interested greedy folks want to raise the tax credit, why?, because the payback on solar sux and they need financial help to sell more systems, depending on the specific project it is in the 8-40 year range assuming that it doesn't incur any other cost during it's lifespan, that is a crazy investment, anyone checked to see what a roofer charges to replace a roof when they have to mess with solar panels?

the government is slowly raising the cost of conventional (most cost effective) generation in order to make their "favored" technology more cost effective, if someone wants to install solar to save the world then fine but don't ask me to pay for something that you want so you can have a lower utility bill and then tell me how you are so great

I'm not against the technology, just stop trying to tell me how cost effective it is, stop taking money to make the economics work

people are always complaining about the tax treatment and subsidy for oil and energy companies, I agree - remove them all, but don't complain about big oil and energy and then turn around and say it is needed in the alternative energy world

- does it make sense that the DoD recently spent $29/gal on biofuel for ships when conventional fuel was less that $4?
- does it make any sense that ethanol was forced on the american public when it costs more that gasoline, results in ~10% worse fuel mileage and raises the cost of food products?

my arguement is not against progress it is about how progress is being funded and the technical/financial ingorance of the folks involved in that progress

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[billeisele 122]

Quote

Because our infrastructure supports gasoline vehicles and coal-powered plants, the true cost (i.e. including disposal etc) is masked -- it's what we've always done. But it still exists. The outflow from oil production and refinement is significant -- it's just been there so long that we don't think about it.

Kind of like the outflow from big-farm meat production. Look at how pork is produce in factory farms, imagine living close to one, and ask yourself if the cheap price of pork is realistic. Convenient maybe, but not realistic. It spreads the disposal of all the pigshit etc. among everyone who's downstream of the pig farms.

Wendy P.

MIss Wendy - I absolutley agree and you are making my point, let the producers and those that want to use the product pay the TRUE cost, when that happens we'll have price transparency and the consumer can make the choice

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[billvon 2,400]

>Funny you should write this as you and your liberal ilk destroyed nuclear energy in the US.

Funny you should assume I am against nuclear energy!

>Or your wonderful work with welfare

Mistake #2.

>Been to the projects lately?

I think you should quit while you're behind.

[kallend 1,625]

Quote

You can tell that Bill and Kalland drink from the same well (of koolaid) they conflate US temps with the global temps and June auto sales with YTD auto sales.

Since this is my first post in this thread and on this topic, it just goes to show that Billvon is correct, you DON'T read posts before you hit "Reply".

Neither can you spell my name despite having seen it written hundreds of times.

You just make yourself look ignorant and foolish.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tkhayes 126]

Technology has a ways to go. In 1972 only a handful of people had the $1000 microwave ovens. Now they are a household necessity at $69

If we did not spend BILLIONS on the space program, you would not be able to buy a Ryobi or Dewalt 18V drill either.

So shaddup. technology is developing, whether you think it is viable or not. some work out, some don't. That will not stop the desire to pursue future technologies.

And oil might be the answer today, but it likely will not be in 100 years. electric cars are coming and when gas is $8/gallon, we will build more of them and far more public transit. You will decide to live in a place where you can hop the train to work instead of driving anyway.

Or maybe you will ride your horse.....

[wmw999 2,123]

Quote

Ryobi or Dewalt 18V drill either

You'll get my drill when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[airdvr 197]

Quote

>Funny you should write this as you and your liberal ilk destroyed nuclear energy in the US.

Funny you should assume I am against nuclear energy!

>> Not saying YOU are against it. Your side of the wing killed nuclaer energy. But you've clearly aligned with the left when preaching to everyone about the harm the right wing has done re: technology advances.

>Or your wonderful work with welfare

Mistake #2.

>>Seriously? Are you saying that the 'Great Society" was the work of conservatives?

>Been to the projects lately?

I think you should quit while you're behind.

>> Behind whom? You talk as if the liberals have the market cornered on great ideas. I just grabbed 3 off the top of my head that have been stellar examples of what not to do.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 2,400]

>You talk as if the liberals have the market cornered on great ideas.

?? Not at all. Fried twinkies were a great idea too.

[brenthutch 384]

Neither can you spell my name despite having seen it written hundreds of times.

It doesn’t mean that much to me to mean that much to you.

[billvon 2,400]

>the issue is that the average cost of that 6% far exceeds the cost of the traditional
>power . . .

Not really. If you factor in government support for nuclear, for example, wind is far cheaper. That's the problem; it's not a level playing field. Without massive government subsidies and supports, for example, nuclear power would not be practical, and oil would be too expensive for average people to afford.

Yes, it would be nice in theory to get the government out of all of it. Get rid of Price-Anderson. Get rid of our military presence in the Persian Gulf. Have oil and coal companies buy the land they want to mine/drill at market prices, then let them sell it when they're done.

>anyone checked to see what a roofer charges to replace a roof when they have to
>mess with solar panels?

Yes. It adds a little to the cost; not much. It's pretty common out here

>the government is slowly raising the cost of conventional (most cost effective)
>generation in order to make their "favored" technology more cost effective . . .

Yep. And they're raising taxes to pay for Exxon subsidies.