DanG 1 #26 June 6, 2012 QuoteThen, as already stated, it must be ok for another group who doesn't share a common culture, food, religious ties, etc., not to bond with the first group and indeed to work hard to put forward their own candidate with whom they do affiliate. Thus, ours is better than yours.... Yet when someone says that, they are accused of being racist. I see your point, but I think you miss mine. "African- Americans for Obama" may support Obama simply because he is African-American. That would be racist. If they support him because they agree with his policies, and they happen to be African-American, that is not racist. If "Non-African-Americans Against Obama" are against him simply because he is African-American, that is racist. If they are against him for other reasons, and they happen not to be African-American, that is not racist. The OP discovered a website called African-Americans for Obama, and instantly assumed that it was a bunch of racists. I was merely pointing out that the organization may or may not be racist. Just because they are a group of people who share a race, does not make them racist. In other words, would an organization called "African-Americans for Romney" automatically be racist? I don't think so, maybe you do. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #27 June 6, 2012 Re; "Caucasian Americans For Obama - Can't find the website" Quote Quote All I was saying is that I was troubled with some of the Google search results of "Caucasian Americans for Obama". I completely missed that because I didn't search for that. I searched for the African Americans for Obama... Perhaps not searching for it is why you couldn't find it? Besides that, would you have a problem with "Veterans for Obama", or "Women for Obama", or "Senior Citizens for Obama"? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #28 June 6, 2012 >Besides that, would you have a problem with "Veterans for Obama", or "Women for >Obama", or "Senior Citizens for Obama"? Oh yeah? Well, where is the "non veterans for Obama?" Why are veterans so racist? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #29 June 6, 2012 QuoteQuoteThen, as already stated, it must be ok for another group who doesn't share a common culture, food, religious ties, etc., not to bond with the first group and indeed to work hard to put forward their own candidate with whom they do affiliate. Thus, ours is better than yours.... Yet when someone says that, they are accused of being racist. I see your point, but I think you miss mine. "African- Americans for Obama" may support Obama simply because he is African-American. That would be racist. If they support him because they agree with his policies, and they happen to be African-American, that is not racist. If "Non-African-Americans Against Obama" are against him simply because he is African-American, that is racist. If they are against him for other reasons, and they happen not to be African-American, that is not racist. The OP discovered a website called African-Americans for Obama, and instantly assumed that it was a bunch of racists. I was merely pointing out that the organization may or may not be racist. Just because they are a group of people who share a race, does not make them racist. In other words, would an organization called "African-Americans for Romney" automatically be racist? I don't think so, maybe you do. Where do White African Americans fit into your pigeonholes? Or are you only referring to Black African Americans? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #30 June 6, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Then, as already stated, it must be ok for another group who doesn't share a common culture, food, religious ties, etc., not to bond with the first group and indeed to work hard to put forward their own candidate with whom they do affiliate. Thus, ours is better than yours.... Yet when someone says that, they are accused of being racist. I see your point, but I think you miss mine. "African- Americans for Obama" may support Obama simply because he is African-American. That would be racist. If they support him because they agree with his policies, and they happen to be African-American, that is not racist. If "Non-African-Americans Against Obama" are against him simply because he is African-American, that is racist. If they are against him for other reasons, and they happen not to be African-American, that is not racist. The OP discovered a website called African-Americans for Obama, and instantly assumed that it was a bunch of racists. I was merely pointing out that the organization may or may not be racist. Just because they are a group of people who share a race, does not make them racist. In other words, would an organization called "African-Americans for Romney" automatically be racist? I don't think so, maybe you do. Where do White African Americans fit into your pigeonholes? Or are you only referring to Black African Americans? Oh, I know several white Africans, living and working in the States having dual citizenship. Are they "White African Americans" ? Or are you only referring to Black African Americans? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #31 June 6, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Then, as already stated, it must be ok for another group who doesn't share a common culture, food, religious ties, etc., not to bond with the first group and indeed to work hard to put forward their own candidate with whom they do affiliate. Thus, ours is better than yours.... Yet when someone says that, they are accused of being racist. I see your point, but I think you miss mine. "African- Americans for Obama" may support Obama simply because he is African-American. That would be racist. If they support him because they agree with his policies, and they happen to be African-American, that is not racist. If "Non-African-Americans Against Obama" are against him simply because he is African-American, that is racist. If they are against him for other reasons, and they happen not to be African-American, that is not racist. The OP discovered a website called African-Americans for Obama, and instantly assumed that it was a bunch of racists. I was merely pointing out that the organization may or may not be racist. Just because they are a group of people who share a race, does not make them racist. In other words, would an organization called "African-Americans for Romney" automatically be racist? I don't think so, maybe you do. Where do White African Americans fit into your pigeonholes? Or are you only referring to Black African Americans? Oh, I know several white Africans, living and working in the States having dual citizenship. Are they "White African Americans" ? Or are you only referring to Black African Americans? I'm trying to figure out what Dan is referring to. I have 2 friends who are from South Africa and they have blonde hair and blue eyes. My point is that it isn't truly "African Americans for Obama" it's actually "Black African Americans for Obama" and that makes it racial and it also makes it wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #32 June 6, 2012 Quote I certainly know it when I see it. Thank you, Mr. Justice Stewart. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #33 June 6, 2012 Anyhow, I understand why you and others are uncomfortable with it, but if you think about it in historical terms, it's really not as insidious or dangerous as it's being portrayed. The simple historical fact is that people voting a preference for their own ethnic group is as common in American politics as the first big wave of non-English immigration in the 19th Century. It's human nature; and it's especially prevalent when people in a certain ethnic group feel that their own group is disproportionately under-represented and/or under-powered in politics. Not many Italian-Americans in New York City voted against Fiorello LaGuardia, especially the first time he ran. Quite a few conservative Republican Catholics were quite willing to make an exception and vote for Jack Kennedy for President. Similarly, Hispanic candidates could count on the Hispanic vote - for awhile - but not necessarily forever. That's because eventually, perhaps inevitably, the novelty wears off, and people care about it less, because they feel that their group has sufficiently "arrived". Not all ethnically-based partisanship, especially when it's the reason people vote for someone (as opposed to against someone) is necessarily bigotry; I think the motivation is more a matter of psychological self-interest. So, for example, an Italian crossing party lines and voting for Rudy Giuliani because he's a fellow Italian is not really bigotry, IMO. But a Protestant voting against Giuliani because he's sick of all those hand-waving Eye-talians is an example of bigotry. This human factor was certainly at work in how many black people voted for Obama in 2008, and probably in 2012, too. But now that it's happened, and the novelty has worn off, I'd think that the next credible black presidential hopeful should not take it for granted nearly as much. Black people are starting to have some real affluence these days, too; and increasingly, they, too will vote their wallets first, and their ethnicity only as an afterthought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 June 6, 2012 Quote Not all ethnically-based partisanship, especially when it's the reason people vote for someone (as opposed to against someone) is necessarily bigotry; I think the motivation is more a matter of psychological self-interest. That false motivation is pretty much the definition of bigotry. And you've bought into it - hook/line/sinker What you are really saying, is that bigotry is "ok" as long as the group of bigots don't "feel" like they have yet "arrived". this is philosophy that's espoused (and cashed in on) by the most hateful of them all and gets repeated by well meaning and decent guys like you so much. So, an Italian crossing party lines and voting for Rudy Giuliani because he's a fellow Italian is very much bigotry. An Italian crossing lines and voting for Rudy because he agrees with Rudy's campaign goals is not bigotry. See how ethnicity is not involved when it's not bigotry? the 'perception' of psychological self interest is just the (usually false) subjective rationalization for the blatant bigotry - "we whites/blacks/latinos have got to stick together" "all those whites/blacks/latinos/jews/chinks/etc/etc/etc are just out to screw us" seriously, this is not rocket science ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #35 June 6, 2012 QuoteWhat you are really saying, is What I'm really saying is what I said. You can either simplify and spin it, or you could read it and learn something. I am so alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #36 June 6, 2012 What makes you think your white African-American friends wouldn't be allowed to join African-Americans for Obama? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #37 June 6, 2012 QuoteWhat makes you think your white African-American friends wouldn't be allowed to join African-Americans for Obama? You're kidding, right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdjoHA5ocwU Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,149 #38 June 6, 2012 My father was a member of NAACP for at least 30 years. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #39 June 7, 2012 QuoteMy father was a member of NAACP for at least 30 years. Wendy P. The NAACP is populated with a lot of racists. By definition, it is a racist organization. Fortunately, they do not encourage violence. That;s very likely why many find their racism acceptable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #40 June 7, 2012 Quote Oh yeah? Well, where is the "non veterans for Obama?" Why are veterans so racist? Bill, you know better than to get me started on veteran's issues. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #41 June 7, 2012 QuoteYou do realize that the website is not "African Americans for Any Guy Who Happens to Be Black", right? Perhaps black Americans share more than just skin color. Perhaps they also share a common history, culture, food, religious ties, etc. Is it okay for them to bond over those things, or is any group of black people getting together for a common cause evidence of racism to you? If a group created a website, "White Americans for Mitt".... How do you think that would go over? How long would it be before some of the regulars on here called it the "KKK"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #42 June 7, 2012 QuoteHow long would it be before some of the regulars on here called it the "KKK"? I suppose it would take about as long as some regulars on here took calling African-Americans for Obama a racist organization. Doesn't mean they'd be right. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #43 June 7, 2012 QuoteQuoteHow long would it be before some of the regulars on here called it the "KKK"? I suppose it would take about as long as some regulars on here took calling African-Americans for Obama a racist organization. Doesn't mean they'd be right. Except that's exactly what it is. Stop sanitizing racism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #44 June 7, 2012 QuoteExcept that's exactly what it is. Impressive argumernt, as usual. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #45 June 7, 2012 QuoteImpressive argumernt, as usual. He has a valid point. African Americans for Obama - Thats OK, and to call it 'racist' is wrong. Whites for Mitt - That group would be questioned and accused of racism the second it was founded. There is a double standard, just like the use of the word "Nigger". To approve of one group and bash another for the same use of the same word... Is the very definition of racism. Yet it is 'allowed' Racism will exist as long as this is allowed and anyone that dares question it is told they are wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #46 June 7, 2012 QuoteTo approve of one group and bash another for the same use of the same word... Is the very definition of racism. Yet it is 'allowed' Context matters. I've tried to explain this before, but people like you just won't get it. If I walk up to you and say, "Hey asshole," you'd be rightly offended. When your best friend say the same thing to you, you likely laugh it off. Do you really think that one random black guy can walk up to another random black guy and call him a nigger? Can you see how the second guy is likely to be offended by that? If not, you're living in a fantasy world. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #47 June 7, 2012 QuoteI've tried to explain this before, but people like you just won't get it. Ah, so you can explain so you insult? QuoteIf I walk up to you and say, "Hey asshole," you'd be rightly offended. When your best friend say the same thing to you, you likely laugh it off. Do you really think that one random black guy can walk up to another random black guy and call him a nigger? Can you see how the second guy is likely to be offended by that? If not, you're living in a fantasy world. Your argument falls flat since 'asshole' would work with either race. "Nigger" only works with one. Also, a black person will get more angry at a white using "nigger" than a black using the same word. I don't know why it is so difficult for you to admit a double standard exists here.... It is readily apparent to anyone that bothers to look and is not trying to make excuses. FACT: For a black person it is more insulting to be called a nigger by a white person than a black person. FACT: it is "OK" to have a group NAACP, or "Blacks for Obama", or the Congressional Black Caucus, or a Black University... But a group ANNWP, "Whites for Mitt", a White Caucus, or a "White Only" school would cause howls of racism. Ignoring that simple set of facts is just silly and serves no purpose what so ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #48 June 7, 2012 QuoteIf I walk up to you and say, "Hey asshole," I'd say "WHAT?" and then pour you a beer. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,145 #49 June 7, 2012 QuoteYour argument falls flat since 'asshole' would work with either race. "Nigger" only works with one. Also, a black person will get more angry at a white using "nigger" than a black using the same word. And you "know" this as a fact how? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #50 June 7, 2012 Quote Quote If I walk up to you and say, "Hey asshole," I'd say "WHAT?" and then pour you a beer. That's exactly the correct response. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
