$300,000 cars being sold for $40,000

[billvon 2,400]

>Or, allowed people to charge their cars only for a price?

I think this would be great. Right now dedicated chargers have RFID or credit card readers to let people pay at the charge station, but I could see a parking lot in a city charging $4 for parking or $8 for parking with a 120V outlet. They'd end up paying an electrician $400 to put in a dozen outlets, and be able to then charge more for their parking lots (and have a way to draw EV owners in.)

[lawrocket 3]

I think it would be great but I have zero doubt that there will be a backlash against anybody trying it.

But also if it is an extra $4 for the charge on, say, a Volt, now you're looking at a $4 charge for an extra ten or twenty miles. Which is comparable to what gas costs. If gas gets more expensive then I can see it as reasonable. I can see charging lots that are solar powered being a big draw in hot places (covered parking with solar panels is a two-fer-one!)

Bill - you really piss me off when you get me thinking more rationally and putting real life examples of how things work and could work.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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I think it would be great but I have zero doubt that there will be a backlash against anybody trying it.

I recently took a call from a gentleman who complained that one of our sites offers courtesy parking spots for people with hybrid cars.

He wanted to start a Human Rights complaint....

Have to say that is a first. I can see shopping centres finding a way to differentiate themselves by offering outlets.

Should also note that some centres in colder climates already do this, for block heaters.

[billvon 2,400]

>I think it would be great but I have zero doubt that there will be a backlash against
>anybody trying it.

Hmm. There are already chargers that require payment here in San Diego and no one has squawked. I've seen 50 cents a kilowatt-hour and $3.50 per hour flat rate.

However (interesting legal note) it is currently illegal in most states for non-utilities to sell power. Thus before it is legal to sell power you'd have to pass a new law (like we did) that makes it legal for, say, Starbucks to sell power to people.

[muff528 3]

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>I think it would be great but I have zero doubt that there will be a backlash against
>anybody trying it.

Hmm. There are already chargers that require payment here in San Diego and no one has squawked. I've seen 50 cents a kilowatt-hour and $3.50 per hour flat rate.

However (interesting legal note) it is currently illegal in most states for non-utilities to sell power. Thus before it is legal to sell power you'd have to pass a new law (like we did) that makes it legal for, say, Starbucks to sell power to people.

I wonder if there would be a problem with the utility owning the charging station, whether at Starbucks or in a parking garage. They could use something like a "smart meter" (2-way communication between the meter and the utility) and charge the customer's card like at a gas pump. The electricity would be metered independently from the "host site" and the host would be paid a periodic commission from the utility. That way the utility could maintain control of the calibration of the meters, maintenance, etc. That could solve problems related to legally being able to buy and sell power and remove a whole layer of accounting and regulatory bureaucracy.

[billvon 2,400]

>I wonder if there would be a problem with the utility owning the charging station,
>whether at Starbucks or in a parking garage.

As far as I know that's legal - but seems unnecessarily complex. 12 outlets for $100 seems like a much better solution for a Starbucks than 12 Blink chargers with smart meters at $5000 a station. Even if SDG+E does own them.

[kallend 1,623]

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Volt is a prime example of what happens when governments start picking the winners and losers.

I think defense contractors make out in that regard far more than car makers.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pirana 0]

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A Mackinac Center report says the real cost of the Volt is closer to $300,000. That includes the suggested retail price, the known $7,500 federal subsidy and another $250,000 in taxpayer-funded state and federal incentives for each car.

The Mackinac Center says analyst James Hohman arrived at that figure after looking at "18 government deals that included loans, rebates, grants and tax credits" that "flow through multiple companies involved in production."

Our tax dollars at work.

Can you say $25B auto bailout? How much does any car 'cost' with the same analysis?

Exactly. If subsidies, grants, credits, deductions, etc are taken into effect the cost of just about everything can be made to look absurd.

Obscure example - there are subsidies for mohair production. All a person or company needs to do is make enough noise, bullshit enough of the right people, and buy enough influence (known as campaign contributions); to get their own subsidy, credit, grant, etc.

What's the old saying? The first million is the toughest to make. After that, you can buy your way into the rest by purchasing and influencing laws in your favor. Well, maybe more than a million to get started, but at some point you no longer have to actually be productive, just influential - and that is just a matter of having money, not actually doing work.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[jakee 1,254]

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Exactly. If subsidies, grants, credits, deductions, etc are taken into effect the cost of just about everything can be made to look absurd.

Especially when you pretend that the cost of a set of general subsidies is a) entirely utilised for one specific product and b) passed intact to the showroom floor without being reclaimed in other taxes at any point down the line. It's like Sir Hugo Rune proving that full time work is impossible:

"WHY IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO WORK EIGHT HOURS A DAY, FIVE DAYS A WEEK

(From the calculations of Hugo Rune)

There are 365 days in a year. In a leap year 366. Let us be generous and begin with 366.
Eight hours of sleep each day equals a total of: 122 days. Leaving – 244 days.
Eight hours of rest each day equals a total of: 122 days. Leaving – 122 days.
You don’t work Saturdays or Sundays, so subtract: 104 days. Leaving – 18 days.
You do have an hour for lunch each working day: 10 days. Leaving – 8 days.
Out of these eight working days, you must surely have at least one week’s holiday a year.
Which leaves you with a single day to work on.
And that’s Christmas Day.
And nobody works on Christmas Day."

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What's the old saying? The first million is the toughest to make. After that, you can buy your way into the rest by purchasing and influencing laws in your favor. Well, maybe more than a million to get started, but at some point you no longer have to actually be productive, just influential - and that is just a matter of having money, not actually doing work.

I've gotta be honest, I thought the saying was a bit catchier than that...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[bodypilot90 0]

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So how does Toyoto manage to make the similar Prius in a manner that is economical enough for them to sell it cheaper than a Volt and still make a profit off of it?

Because they don't have Obama helping them

[ElusiveBird 0]

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I think the Prius PHEV is a much better compromise overall

We love ours; We just bought it a couple months ago as my husband travels many miles each day.

I must concede our main cars are an SUV (mine) and a large truck (his) which we also love. But, I am retired and do not drive far and his truck is helpful for transporting "toys" when we travel nearby.

Still, the Prius is quickly becoming our favorite go-to vehicle.

A beautiful bunch. A ripe banana.