If you MUST teach creation myths in science class...

[quade 3]

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???? You're kidding, right?

Well, they certainly do seem to threaten to shoot them at the drop of a hat.

Not just a user on this forum, but others as well. A simple google search will turn up many incidents. Here's an example.

http://onemansblog.com/2011/08/06/christians-openly-advocate-killing-athiests-on-fox-news-facebook-page/

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[popsjumper 2]

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Don't think I've seen any atheists with signs on par with "fags burn in hell."

Maybe you're tagging assholes with religion labels?
Assholes abound the world over...religion has noting to do with that.

Maybe you're saying no atheists would sport a sign like that?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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>All of the major wars of the last four centuries were started for purely non-religious reasons.

The Sudanese and Lebanese civil wars were both religious in nature - and of course the recent US-Afghanistan war was started by religious zealots. However if you're going to call them "minor wars" your statement is technically correct.

Nice twist changing "non-religious reasons" to "religious zealots".

Who started the war in Afghanistan?
Why did they start it?

Religious differences?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Most wars are really about seizing land and resources. You don't need religion for that.

And are denying the leaders who start those wars for those reasons, use religion as a motivator and recruitment tool?

I don't wanna go all Godwin here, but . . .

Nope. Why would you think that anything being used as a motivator and recruitment tool would be the basis for starting a war?

"Uncle Sam Needs You!"
Well holy shit....that's what caused that war! I'll be damned.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[quade 3]

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Don't think I've seen any atheists with signs on par with "fags burn in hell."

Maybe you're tagging assholes with religion labels?
Assholes abound the world over...religion has noting to do with that.
Maybe you're saying no atheists would sport a sign like that?

Certainly not one that says, ""fags burn in hell."

Think about that one for a minute.

It takes a special kind of asshole and unfortunately for your argument, he's going to have to be religious.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,400]

>Who started the war in Afghanistan?

The latest one? Al Qaeda.

>Why did they start it?

To destroy the Great Satan.

[popsjumper 2]

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>Most wars are really about seizing land and resources. You don't need religion for that.

In the last two centuries or so I would tend to agree. Religion (like nationalism, patriotism, "manifest destiny" etc) was used more often as an excuse to justify violence, rather than the initial impetus.

That's what he's talking about...initial impetus.
Can you tell me which wars in the last two centuries in which religion was the initial impetus?

"Hey! You stepped on my blue suede shoes! I declare war on you!"

"Oh yeah? I'll put a jihad on your sorry ass!!"

Religious differences started that war, eh?

Religiophobes will twist anything around. You should all be spin doctors.
Oh wait...you already are. But, alas, not very good at it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Coreece 190]

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???? You're kidding, right?

Well, they certainly do seem to threaten to shoot them at the drop of a hat.

Not just a user on this forum, but others as well. A simple google search will turn up many incidents. Here's an example.

http://onemansblog.com/2011/08/06/christians-openly-advocate-killing-athiests-on-fox-news-facebook-page/

Do you think that stuff follows the tenants of Biblical Christianity?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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Don't think I've seen any atheists with signs on par with "fags burn in hell."

Maybe you're tagging assholes with religion labels?
Assholes abound the world over...religion has noting to do with that.
Maybe you're saying no atheists would sport a sign like that?

Certainly not one that says, ""fags burn in hell."

Think about that one for a minute.

It takes a special kind of asshole and unfortunately for your argument, he's going to have to be religious.

Or just good old fashioned evil...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[popsjumper 2]

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Don't think I've seen any atheists with signs on par with "fags burn in hell."

Maybe you're tagging assholes with religion labels?
Assholes abound the world over...religion has noting to do with that.
Maybe you're saying no atheists would sport a sign like that?

Certainly not one that says, ""fags burn in hell."

Think about that one for a minute.

It takes a special kind of asshole and unfortunately for your argument, he's going to have to be religious.

Wrong..again.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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>Who started the war in Afghanistan?

The latest one? Al Qaeda.

>Why did they start it?

To destroy the Great Satan.

Wrong...again

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[quade 3]

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Don't think I've seen any atheists with signs on par with "fags burn in hell."

Maybe you're tagging assholes with religion labels?
Assholes abound the world over...religion has noting to do with that.
Maybe you're saying no atheists would sport a sign like that?

Certainly not one that says, ""fags burn in hell."
Think about that one for a minute.
It takes a special kind of asshole and unfortunately for your argument, he's going to have to be religious.

Wrong..again.

So . . . you believe atheists believe in hell? Really?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[popsjumper 2]

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So . . . you believe atheists believe in hell? Really?

Give it up.
You can't twist like Bill can.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[quade 3]

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So . . . you believe atheists believe in hell? Really?

Give it up.
You can't twist like Bill can.

Not twisting a thing. Go back to the verbiage of the quoted sign. It's simply illogical to assume an atheist would carry it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[popsjumper 2]

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So . . . you believe atheists believe in hell? Really?

Give it up.
You can't twist like Bill can.

Not twisting a thing. Go back to the verbiage of the quoted sign. It's simply illogical to assume an atheist would carry it.

Of course, twisting.
----
Me:
Maybe you're saying no atheists would sport a sign like that?

You:
Certainly not one that says, ""fags burn in hell."

It takes a special kind of asshole and unfortunately for your argument, he's going to have to be religious.
----

Now you want to throw your sense of "logic" into your definitive statements.

Quade, we're dealing with human behavior here. Logic doesn't apply.

If you want to think no atheist would do anything in particular, have at it.

Either way, I think you'll agree that the sign carrier was an asshole...regardless of her/his religious viewpoint.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[quade 3]

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Either way, I think you'll agree that the sign carrier was an asshole...regardless of her/his religious viewpoint.

He would be an asshole regardless, but in this case he was very much religious. Very specifically religious. I will admit it is a fringe religious group, but it's absolutely a religious group who by every appearance and according to their own words are acting out for religious reasons.

The name of the group is the Westboro Baptist Church.

Here . . . read this;
http://www.godhatesfags.com/confessions/index.html


To deny it's a religiously motivated bit of hate is simply silly.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jakee 1,255]

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True. Atheists are much more inanely vocal and mean-spirited. Proselytizers couldn't compete with that even if they wanted to.

Who has the billboards? Who has the TV stations? Who has the many, many books? Who has the gangs of door to door salesmen? Who has the public rallies? Who regularly declares that people who aren't them will burn forever? Who says that natural disasters are the other guys' fault? Who are polled as saying they will never vote for the other guys in any election. Who wants to prevent others from conducting their private lives in a way that doesn't match their own?

Oh, but wait - here in this tiny corner of the internet known as SC atheists might talk more than religious people. Obviously that overrides the real world

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,255]

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>Most wars are really about seizing land and resources. You don't need religion for that.

In the last two centuries or so I would tend to agree. Religion (like nationalism, patriotism, "manifest destiny" etc) was used more often as an excuse to justify violence, rather than the initial impetus.

That's what he's talking about...initial impetus.
Can you tell me which wars in the last two centuries in which religion was the initial impetus?

Initial impetus? Afghanistan.

The US was attacked for religious reasons.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,255]

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Now you want to throw your sense of "logic" into your definitive statements.

Quade, we're dealing with human behavior here. Logic doesn't apply.

If you want to think no atheist would do anything in particular, have at it.

Either way, I think you'll agree that the sign carrier was an asshole...regardless of her/his religious viewpoint.

So: atheists are assholes because they're atheists, but religious people are assholes because they're assholes?

That sure is some mighty purdy logic you've got there!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,255]

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>All of the major wars of the last four centuries were started for purely non-religious reasons.

The Sudanese and Lebanese civil wars were both religious in nature - and of course the recent US-Afghanistan war was started by religious zealots. However if you're going to call them "minor wars" your statement is technically correct.

Nice twist changing "non-religious reasons" to "religious zealots".

That's not a twist, he's saying something different.

"I think that sheep is white."

"No, I think it's black."

"Nice twist changing white to black!"

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[frequentfaller 0]

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asking for proof is how science works sorry. everything is looked at over and over.

True. So keep it in the realm of science where it belongs..

got it backwards pops. keep the religion out of science. science = logic/proof
religion = blind faith

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religion just wants you to believe period. no questions. its all in this ancient book thats been translated and rewritten 1000 times.

True enough. I'm sure you have known that for a while now. It's been posted here numerous times by the atheists...kind of like a mantra, you know?

[rehmwa 2]

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....advocating that the schools be responsible for providing a varied exposure to...

...all subjects, scientific, philosophical, religious civic...everything.

Anything less than that is brainwashing kids to only know and believe whatever it is that you want them to know and believe.
Simple as that.

Some of you guys sound just like the brainwashers.
"I don't want kids to know anything except what I choose!"

*shaking head*

You guys whining about
.
.
.
You guys wanting to.
.
.
.

I can't tell if you think I'm one of "you guys" here

I'm just saying that advocating for or against any religion is not the role of the (public) schools - it's the role of the parents. and also, the parents can also decide the exposure to their kids as they see fit

I choose to provide any and all information to my kid about any and all religions she wants to ask about. Of course, my bias is "skeptical and amused, but tolerant of other's choices" - but, I also don't consider it any of my business how my neighbor teaches their kids - even if I disagree. the exception is if they abuse the kid and use it as an excuse - then my objection is the abuse, not the religion as such


anything fact (rather than belief) based? sure, the school should provide all the pertinent data. anything that's really more theory, (but not necessarily on the philosophy side), like economics, or social behavior, or government - then the school should also expose, but be very specific that it's theory, not fact


short answer
I think parents be responsible for their kids - period. If they pass on their biases and beliefs, that's fine - if a stranger tries to do that, that's wrong.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[popsjumper 2]

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I can't tell if you think I'm one of "you guys" here

Nope, not you. You seem to have it down pat.

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I'm just saying that advocating for or against any religion is not the role of the (public) schools - it's the role of the parents. and also, the parents can also decide the exposure to their kids as they see fit

Agreed. Unfortunately, kids have a hard time overcoming what they get from the bozo parents.

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I choose to provide any and all information to my kid about any and all religions she wants to ask about. Of course, my bias is "skeptical and amused, but tolerant of other's choices" -

Bingo! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!

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but, I also don't consider it any of my business how my neighbor teaches their kids - even if I disagree.

Well, that kind of puts you in the minority in this thread.
It appears that some would battle until the last shot is fired to make others adhere to their preference on what YOUR kids should be taught.



the exception is if they abuse the kid and use it as an excuse - then my objection is the abuse, not the religion as such


anything fact (rather than belief) based? sure, the school should provide all the pertinent data.

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anything that's really more theory, (but not necessarily on the philosophy side), like economics, or social behavior, or government - then the school should also expose, but be very specific that it's theory, not fact

Agreed! Simple as that!

Yet we have to deal with the strange attitude of, "I believe the earth is flat and I don't want my kid taught anything different."

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Either way, I think you'll agree that the sign carrier was an asshole...regardless of her/his religious viewpoint.

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He would be an asshole regardless, but in this case he was very much religious. Very specifically religious.

No argument there. It's quite obvious, isn't it?

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To deny it's a religiously motivated bit of hate is simply silly.

Either you missed the point. or another attempt at twisting.
Never said that.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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got it backwards pops. keep the religion out of science. science = logic/proof, religion = blind faith

My bad. I thought you were up to speed on all the "God doesn't exist because you can't prove that He does. Show me the scientific proof that God exists" inanities.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239