Do You find This Behavior odd?

[billvon 2,435]

>This is why I fnd this so offensive to be attacking Santorum for this.

I agree. It's not normal but people don't always react normally to a tragedy like this; if it helped him and his family deal with it, that's their choice to make.

I also find it pretty sad that you used this tragedy to make your usual political attacks against "lefties," pro-choice advocates and Muslims. You made five posts in this thread and four of them used the tragedy for attacks. Next time you're offended by someone using his family's tragedy for political advantage - look in the mirror.

[BIGUN 1,073]

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I find this really disturbing.

I pray you never experience the loss of a child.
And, I actually find this thread more disturbing than their actions.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[wildcard451 0]

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I find this really disturbing.

I pray you never experience the loss of a child.
And, I actually find this thread more disturbing than their actions.

This.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Bullshit. I've done nothing of the sort. I've simply tried to defend a father from a viscous attack from a left wing rag. Had it not been for me actually reading the original article, you would still think he took a stillborn infant home.

[JohnRich 4]

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I find this really disturbing.

I find it odd and disturbing that you feel this way about him for showing this much respect for his dead baby and family.

It seems odd to me to just abandon a future member of the family at the hospital, walk away, and never see them again.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I dislike Santorum on so many levels. And yeah, he's kinda weird. But he and his family were in grief, and coping with it as best as they saw fit. They should be left the hell alone about this.

Sorry, Andy, but no.

Santorum advocates the banning of all abortions, including ones done to save the mother, EXACTLY LIKE THE ONE HIS FAMILY DID. They won't even acknowledge it was an abortion.

Its fucked up shit.

[pirana 0]

Different, strange, not what I think I'd do - but not really disturbing. Definitely not even close to bad.

As much as I dislike his platform, this has nothing to do with his electability or even the quality of his character. The press is trying hard to make it so, as evidenced by use of the word "play." But then, they are after website hits - not accuracy.

It's not like they seated him in his Johny Jump-Up, or tried to play catch. The parts on which the press did not embelish make it sound more like an honoring of his essence and a grieving.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[wildcard451 0]

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I dislike Santorum on so many levels. And yeah, he's kinda weird. But he and his family were in grief, and coping with it as best as they saw fit. They should be left the hell alone about this.

Sorry, Andy, but no.

Santorum advocates the banning of all abortions, including ones done to save the mother, EXACTLY LIKE THE ONE HIS FAMILY DID. They won't even acknowledge it was an abortion.

Its fucked up shit.

I don't know his whole story on this, but I really dislike his position on abortion. And his religious view mixing with politics.

[mnealtx 0]

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I don't know his whole story on this, but I really dislike his position on abortion. And his religious view mixing with politics.

Agreed.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyDekker 1,147]

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And I, for one, despair the tendency to rip someone a new asshole about the minutest aspects of their personal lives just because they're politicians. As I've said in other threads, it's the aspect of politics that disgusts me, and it's why I've chosen not to be a player, not even as a "hobbyist", in elective politics.

Any, in general I completely agree with you. however, in this case there are two statements made on this thread, that if true alter that concept for me.

1) this was an abortion which he claims to be against in all cases. If that is part of his platform, it is only fair that his personal behaviour on the matter is examined.

2) if he truly had a picture of the dead baby hanging on the wall of his office, that makes the whole thing kind of open to questions and debate.

I have no issues with politicians private lives remaining private. However, the politician should at least put some effort in trying to keep something private.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Santorum advocates the banning of all abortions, including ones done to save the mother, EXACTLY LIKE THE ONE HIS FAMILY DID. They won't even acknowledge it was an abortion.

Are you sure? The articles I found, after a fair amount of searching, are still sketchy.

From one detailed article I read, it seems Karen agreed to have antibiotics administered to her, but refused to allow labor-inducing drugs to be administered to her, because that would be abortion, since the child was too young to survive outside the uterus. Then labor began, and Karen asked for drugs to stop the labor, but her doctors refused, so the spontaneous delivery (i.e., miscarriage) occurred.

Frankly, the articles are all over the place, mainly debating on whether Karen was, or was not, administered labor-inducing medication.

If you have a source that clears up this ambiguity, that would be helpful.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Santorum advocates the banning of all abortions, including ones done to save the mother, EXACTLY LIKE THE ONE HIS FAMILY DID. They won't even acknowledge it was an abortion.

Are you sure? The articles I found, after a fair amount of searching, are still sketchy.

From one detailed article I read, it seems Karen agreed to have antibiotics administered to her, but refused to allow labor-inducing drugs to be administered to her, because that would be abortion, since the child was too young to survive outside the uterus. Then labor began, and Karen asked for drugs to stop the labor, but her doctors refused, so the spontaneous delivery (i.e., miscarriage) occurred.

Frankly, the articles are all over the place, mainly debating on whether Karen was, or was not, administered labor-inducing medication.

If you have a source that clears up this ambiguity, that would be helpful.

This came courtesy of NerdGirl
http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2011/06/19/santorums-wifes-abortion-was-different-you-see/

It's a column, though it does give a lead on an interview in 2004 that if verifiable, seems to be rather conclusive and would suggest they're doing some window dressing now.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Santorum advocates the banning of all abortions, including ones done to save the mother, EXACTLY LIKE THE ONE HIS FAMILY DID. They won't even acknowledge it was an abortion.

Are you sure? The articles I found, after a fair amount of searching, are still sketchy.

From one detailed article I read, it seems Karen agreed to have antibiotics administered to her, but refused to allow labor-inducing drugs to be administered to her, because that would be abortion, since the child was too young to survive outside the uterus. Then labor began, and Karen asked for drugs to stop the labor, but her doctors refused, so the spontaneous delivery (i.e., miscarriage) occurred.

Frankly, the articles are all over the place, mainly debating on whether Karen was, or was not, administered labor-inducing medication.

If you have a source that clears up this ambiguity, that would be helpful.

This came courtesy of NerdGirl
http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2011/06/19/santorums-wifes-abortion-was-different-you-see/

It's a column, though it does give a lead on an interview in 2004 that if verifiable, seems to be rather conclusive and would suggest they're doing some window dressing now.

I'd already read-thru the complete article on which your cited article was derived (but only partially quoted from) before I posted my previous post. In fact, it was that article that I was referring to in my previous post. Here's the link:

http://oursilverribbon.org/blog/?p=188

As you can see, if one reads the whole thing (beyond the title and first few paragraphs), it's not clear at all.

I'm all about evidence. I'd still like to see an authoritative source clear up the ambiguity.
Anyone?

[kelpdiver 2]

That gave a link to an audio file of the Terry Gross interview, which is the one of most interest. But within your citation is this final bit by the Santorums:

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Karen, a soft-spoken red-haired 37-year-old, said that “ultimately” she would have agreed to intervention for the sake of her other children.

“If the physician came to me and said if we don’t deliver your baby in one hour you will be dead, yeah, I would have to do it,” she said. “But for me, it was at the very end. I would never make a decision like that until all other means had been thoroughly exhausted.”

So they're hanging onto the semantical claim that this wasn't an abortion, but would have if they needed to, yet still have been trying to deny that option to all Americans. No donut!

[Andy9o8 0]

That seems to be an implied concession that it was NOT an abortion, despite the public campaign by many of my own ideological soul-mates that it was. It either was, or it wasn't.

And the quote was by Karen, not Rick.

Santorum appalls me in many ways. Politically, he's a prick; and I can see why so many people say he has it coming: what's good for the goose, etc.

Still - even if Santorum himself might not personally deserve a lot of fairness - evidence is evidence, and spin is spin. Was it an abortion or was it not?

[diablopilot 2]

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That said, I have no idea if that's even what the real story is, let alone the factual truth.

I saw the man himself talking on TV this morning about the fact the family did this. I do find it pretty odd.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mnealtx 0]

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That said, I have no idea if that's even what the real story is, let alone the factual truth.

I saw the man himself talking on TV this morning about the fact the family did this. I do find it pretty odd.

The American Pregnancy Association seems to support the general idea, if not in the exact manner the Santorums did it:

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With the loss of your baby, your family members will also grieve. Your baby is someone’s granddaughter, brother, cousin, nephew or sister. It is important for your family members to spend time with the baby. This will help them come to terms with their loss. If you have other children, it is very important to be honest with them about what has happened by using simple and honest explanations. It is your decision whether you would like the children to see the baby. Ask for a Child Life Specialist at the hospital; these are trained professionals who can help you prepare your children for the heartbreaking news, and prepare them to see the baby if you wish.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706