Let Your Life Be a Counter-Friction to Stop the Machine

[dreamdancer 0]

science fiction or not...

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In the peaceful town of Fargo, North Dakota, report Andrew Becker and G.W. Schulz of the Center for Investigative Reporting, “Every city squad car is equipped today with a military-style assault rifle, and officers can don Kevlar helmets able to withstand incoming fire from battlefield-grade ammunition. And for that epic confrontation—if it ever occurs—officers can now summon a new $256,643 armored truck, complete with a rotating turret.”

Billions of federal tax dollars have been spent nationwide on this kind of military hardware for police, in the name of Homeland Security.

Security from what? Security for whom?

Short of an all-out military invasion by a foreign force, which seems hugely unlikely, these weapons can only be meant to confront an insurgency within our own borders.

Are we thinking about a civil war, then?

Are these police being armed and trained to protect the interests of the 1% against the raging anger of the 99%?

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/12/30-3

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[popsjumper 2]

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Are these police being armed and trained to protect the interests of the 1% against the raging anger of the 99%?

As things stand now with the Us vs Them anger, and the politician's playing their games, I wouldn't like to have to argue against that.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Skyrad 0]

Actually an interesting point is being raised here, the militarisation of policing in both tactics, equipment and policy. There does appear to be a strong movement away from policing by consent both in the USA and globally.
Ironically military intervention in insurrection is infamously poor in positive resolutions, counter insurrection should be 85% civilian effort to 15% military. Without clearly defined policy and civil strategy counter insurgency is doomed to the failure we've seen in both Iraq (Most notably in British held Basra) and Afghanistan.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Are you old enough to remember this?

You know two men wearing body armor hold up a "Bank of America" branch in North Hollywood and lead the police on a wild 45 minute shootout resulting in the deaths of both armed robbers as well as the injury of 8 police officers and 7 civilians. The police were outgunned that day. That was the day that changed the mentality of police forces far and wide concerning their armament and their procedures. If you want to start internet threads blaming the police for being armed to the teeth, don't ever forget the two men who changed the world when they decided to rob a bank back in 1997.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Gravitymaster 0]

I think a better title for this thread would be "Let Your Keyboard Be a Counter-Friction Force to Stop the Machine".

[lawrocket 3]

The police are more militarized. Sure, the NoHo shootout had much to do with it. But I also think that the NoHo shootout did little more than provide the necessary PR to allow police departments to do it - and they had wanted it for years.

This comes as a necessary effect os lack of respect for individual rights and greater consolidation of government authority. We want security. We want safety. We want the government in charge of all responsibilities for personal welfare (including financial). So we've got police with military weapons and surveillance and armored personnel carriers. Boy are we a safe place or what?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mnealtx 0]

Well said.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/12/30-3

Nice article on the subject written by a professor of comparative literature and gender studies. How could anyone possibly argue against someone with such high credentials and experience in the field?

[jakee 1,280]

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This comes as a necessary effect os lack of respect for individual rights and greater consolidation of government authority. We want security. We want safety. We want the government in charge of all responsibilities for personal welfare (including financial). So we've got police with military weapons and surveillance and armored personnel carriers. Boy are we a safe place or what?

And meanwhile, across the ocean from the Land Of The Free, in Socialist Europe...


More on topic, I'm remembering an article someone posted a few years back, saying two things:

1; If you give police (or anyone) equipment, they will use it, and as use becomes more common, the threshold to justify use will only go down. Can be seen at any level from the proliferation of taser use to military spy aircraft being deployed over cattle disputes.

2; If you dress police (or anyone) like soldiers, they start to think like soldiers. If you're in full body armour, a ballistic helmet, tactical Oakleys, carrying an M-16 and standing around an APC you're not thinking about protecting and serving, you're replaying scenes from Platoon in your head and getting ready to take on the enemy.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Gravitymaster 0]

+1 Very true.

[masterrig 1]

I'm not clear on this but didn't the L.A.PD get some better fire power from a near-by gun store because their issued weapons just didn't match-up to what the robbers had? Help me on this.


Chuck

[mnealtx 0]

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I'm not clear on this but didn't the L.A.PD get some better fire power from a near-by gun store because their issued weapons just didn't match-up to what the robbers had? Help me on this.


Chuck

Yes, they did. The responding officers were armed only with .38 revolvers and 9mm pistols and a shotgun, none of which were unable to penetrate the robbers' armor.

They borrowed AR15s from a local gunshop and, along with SWAT officers armed with M16s, were able to effectively engage the robbers and end the shootout.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[masterrig 1]

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I'm not clear on this but didn't the L.A.PD get some better fire power from a near-by gun store because their issued weapons just didn't match-up to what the robbers had? Help me on this.


Chuck

Yes, they did. The responding officers were armed only with .38 revolvers and 9mm pistols and a shotgun, none of which were unable to penetrate the robbers' armor.

They borrowed AR15s from a local gunshop and, along with SWAT officers armed with M16s, were able to effectively engage the robbers and end the shootout.

Thank you, for that!


Chuck

[mnealtx 0]

De nada.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[lawrocket 3]

The shooters were shot in the legs, arms and hands. Phillips committed suicide after he couldn't clear a jam from his rifle. It would have been a simple jam to clear had hsi thumb not been shot through.

And Matasareanu? He was shot 30 times in the legs and feet. He bled to death there face down in the street before the ambulance showed up over and hour later. (Like it or not, the guy was denied medical care - a soft way of executing him).

THeir body armor was remarkably effective even with the weapons the police raided. Only the wounds to the extremities knocked them out of commission.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mnealtx 0]

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THeir body armor was remarkably effective even with the weapons the police raided. Only the wounds to the extremities knocked them out of commission.

Agreed.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Skyrad 0]

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This comes as a necessary effect os lack of respect for individual rights and greater consolidation of government authority. We want security. We want safety. We want the government in charge of all responsibilities for personal welfare (including financial). So we've got police with military weapons and surveillance and armored personnel carriers. Boy are we a safe place or what?

And meanwhile, across the ocean from the Land Of The Free, in Socialist Europe...


More on topic, I'm remembering an article someone posted a few years back, saying two things:

1; If you give police (or anyone) equipment, they will use it, and as use becomes more common, the threshold to justify use will only go down. Can be seen at any level from the proliferation of taser use to military spy aircraft being deployed over cattle disputes.

2; If you dress police (or anyone) like soldiers, they start to think like soldiers. If you're in full body armour, a ballistic helmet, tactical Oakleys, carrying an M-16 and standing around an APC you're not thinking about protecting and serving, you're replaying scenes from Platoon in your head and getting ready to take on the enemy.

Interestingly I notice that in the UK in 2011 as far as I can see not one Police officer was shot and killed and I could only find two cases where Police were shot at all (although there may be more that I couldn't find). Interesting despite the number of firearm involved crimes being significant and the Police being routinely NOT armed. (70 shot death in the USA in 2011, although you can't make a direct comparison).

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[gher 0]

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2; If you dress police (or anyone) like soldiers, they start to think like soldiers. If you're in full body armour, a ballistic helmet, tactical Oakleys, carrying an M-16 and standing around an APC you're not thinking about protecting and serving, you're replaying scenes from Platoon in your head and getting ready to take on the enemy.

As criminals up the arms ante, the police must respond in kind. I'd sooner see over armed cops (if that's truly possible) and dozens of dead criminals versus under-equipped/armed police and even one dead Cop...

[dreamdancer 0]

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2; If you dress police (or anyone) like soldiers, they start to think like soldiers. If you're in full body armour, a ballistic helmet, tactical Oakleys, carrying an M-16 and standing around an APC you're not thinking about protecting and serving, you're replaying scenes from Platoon in your head and getting ready to take on the enemy.

As criminals up the arms ante, the police must respond in kind. I'd sooner see over armed cops (if that's truly possible) and dozens of dead criminals versus under-equipped/armed police and even one dead Cop...

the proverbial police state...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[masterrig 1]

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2; If you dress police (or anyone) like soldiers, they start to think like soldiers. If you're in full body armour, a ballistic helmet, tactical Oakleys, carrying an M-16 and standing around an APC you're not thinking about protecting and serving, you're replaying scenes from Platoon in your head and getting ready to take on the enemy.

As criminals up the arms ante, the police must respond in kind. I'd sooner see over armed cops (if that's truly possible) and dozens of dead criminals versus under-equipped/armed police and even one dead Cop...

I agree!!! My wife retired from law enforcement after 25-yrs service. Over time, I got to know law enforcement officers of various degrees. Many of them voiced the opinion they were 'under armed' in comparison to the 'bad guys'. If, we are going to have law enforcement, let's at least get them on an even plane with the bad guys as far as armament. This bull-shit idea that our law enforcement officers don't need better fire-power is just that... bull-shit! I know, there are a lot of folks who feel we don't need police but I don't believe I'd want to see that.


Chuck

[skydiver604 0]

it's called a level playing, although I prefer to see the criminals outgunned by the cops. Years ago a guy I went to school with got ambushed by 2 drug dealers with automatic handguns, he was a Sudbury Regional Police officer that emptied his 38 revolver at two scumbags during a routine traffic stop, he got lead into both of them, but not before they killed him and ran him over with their car, if at that time he was better armed he might still be alive today.

http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1238138&archive=true

so FUCK YOU and your proverbial police state.

"The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo

[masterrig 1]

When my wife was in law enforcement, her department was going to go to 9mm semi-autos. She didn't want to give-up her .357 wheel-gun! I told her I didn't see the sense in a 9mm so I got her a 40-cal. Glock. Her dept. approved it and she loves that pistol. Not to mention, she's scarey good with it.


Chuck

[dreamdancer 0]

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it's called a level playing, although I prefer to see the criminals outgunned by the cops. Years ago a guy I went to school with got ambushed by 2 drug dealers with automatic handguns, he was a Sudbury Regional Police officer that emptied his 38 revolver at two scumbags during a routine traffic stop, he got lead into both of them, but not before they killed him and ran him over with their car, if at that time he was better armed he might still be alive today.

http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1238138&archive=true

so FUCK YOU and your proverbial police state.

or he might not. and it was his job choice. i know many people who have died skydiving. we don't all equip ourselves with 3 reserves and half a dozen aads...

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[masterrig 1]

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2; If you dress police (or anyone) like soldiers, they start to think like soldiers. If you're in full body armour, a ballistic helmet, tactical Oakleys, carrying an M-16 and standing around an APC you're not thinking about protecting and serving, you're replaying scenes from Platoon in your head and getting ready to take on the enemy.

As criminals up the arms ante, the police must respond in kind. I'd sooner see over armed cops (if that's truly possible) and dozens of dead criminals versus under-equipped/armed police and even one dead Cop...

I agree!!! My wife retired from law enforcement after 25-yrs service. Over time, I got to know law enforcement officers of various degrees. Many of them voiced the opinion they were 'under armed' in comparison to the 'bad guys'. If, we are going to have law enforcement, let's at least get them on an even plane with the bad guys as far as armament. This bull-shit idea that our law enforcement officers don't need better fire-power is just that... bull-shit! I know, there are a lot of folks who feel we don't need police but I don't believe I'd want to see that.


Chuck

The firearms are just tools. A sidearm is good up close and personal, but not so good for range. The shotgun with 00 wouldn't be such a good idea where there's a potential for bystanders to get injured. The assault rifle adds good range and more surgical precision to the package.

It's all about the right tool for the job.

There ya' go! You can't do the job if you don't have the right tools.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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it's called a level playing, although I prefer to see the criminals outgunned by the cops. Years ago a guy I went to school with got ambushed by 2 drug dealers with automatic handguns, he was a Sudbury Regional Police officer that emptied his 38 revolver at two scumbags during a routine traffic stop, he got lead into both of them, but not before they killed him and ran him over with their car, if at that time he was better armed he might still be alive today.

http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1238138&archive=true

so FUCK YOU and your proverbial police state.

or he might not. and it was his job choice. i know many people who have died skydiving. we don't all equip ourselves with 3 reserves and half a dozen aads...

What a ridiculous statement and total lack of reality. You have no idea what things would be like without police. Crime is high enough as it is. You bet, that police officer chose that career. He was trying to do something positive and try to keep some semblence of order in his community. The same goes for thousands of other police officers. Your total disregard for his life and occupation is out of line. There is no free Bubble-up!


Chuck