Chances of your coming into being

[Marinus 0]

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Given the massive limitation of not being able to breathe in water, despite it being perfectly possible. Adaptations that mean they can go longer and longer between breaths are still not as good as gills.

The lung actually do function, but I wonder what the untelligunt duhsiner thought when he gave whales vestigial hind legs.

[kelpdiver 2]

still waiting to hear how your theory holds up when Catholic pastors don't have offspring.

[SpeedRacer 1]

I'm not completely sure any of you exist. You could all just be a bunch of gnomes living in the Internet tubes, for all I know.

Speed Racer
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[Marinus 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78S6L_X2s0k

Yeah, you asked for it

[jakee 1,274]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYSXBsGOVuc&feature=related

This whole thread's asking for it

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreece 190]

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You, however, through your parroting of Lewis are guilty of 'failure to state'

Oh yeah, as if you never quoted anybody out of convenience before?

I've spoke on this subject in these forums in my own words prior to any familiarization of Lweis' literature.

The bottom line is that many times, if allowed, all you will do is make a bunch of attacks and ask a lot of questions to avoid the task of having to define/defend your own position.

People like Max and I are very interested in your prespective and logic. I'm thankful that the Mighty Mad Max was able to summon Sir Jakee The Great to offer something substantial....it was exciting, like Haley's comet.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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Both you and max made an extra-ordinary claim (that there is meaning).

That sounds kinda like an appeal to popularity even if you could illustrate that the thought of personal meaning being projected on a macro level is somehow bizzare or extra-ordinary.

It can be observed that various structures and processes in life and the universe seem to be connected and share some type of common resemblance - from the vascular structure of plants to that of animals, from the structure of an atom to the structure of the solar system, from the big bang to anemochory seed dispersal or ejaculation etc...

I don't see what is so bizzare about thinking that the meaning many people find in their personal life is somehow connected to some type of constant intelligent organizational force beyond our comprehension.

Unprovable, non-sequitur? Perhaps. Extra-ordinary, bizzare? Certainly not.

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He's simply asking you to show why.

For the most part, I had typically viewed physical life as being meaningless, and my study of ecclesiates only helped to nurture that belief.

Ecclesiastes 1:2
“Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”

It's a rather fascinating book in that it's content tends to be rather unexpecting and establishes a harmony between hope and despair where one can find meaning through meaninglessness.

The book illustrates rather graphically the futility of life in extreme detail. If I wanted to close the book and end my search of God and meaning, this would be the place for me to do so without regret or any futher consideration of the subject.

But like Solomon and so many others, I was incapable of rejecting God. Even as an athiest I was constanly lying to myself about the inward desire to know God and ultimately felt I'd be damned if I was gonna limit myself to the vanity of depraved human logic and the rules of borish mathematics even as advantageous to humanity they are...it's all meaningless anyway, right?

Without getting into too much detail, meaning basically comes down to belief.

If you believe in God, you open the door of opportunity to find meaning.

If you don't believe in God, you must find a way at all costs to ignore the knocking and keep the door shut, lest be cast into judgement.

This goes back to my original response to Marinus...
It is not through the fear of judgement that I believe, but rather through the fear of judgement that he disbelieves....but he was unwilling to address that statement and appealed to ridicule.

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The burden is really up to you.

Marinus is the one who busted in here saying that he's 99.9999% sure life has no meaning and gave absolutely no fomula as to how he came up with that figure other than to say that it is "obvious."

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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The lung actually do function, but I wonder what the untelligunt duhsiner thought when he gave whales vestigial hind legs.

Maybe something like:

"Let us conclude upon futher considration of Title 3,678,432 Article 1218 section 22778 with regard to the evolutionary subversion of posterior extremities in class A sea dwelling mamalian mortals, that such carbon units may find it advantageous to utilize a modified class C appendage as an erotic clasp."

*In received pronunciation, of course.*

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[billvon 2,467]

>In an evolving universe, if there was no meaning, we would not expend energy
>trying to find it.

Fair enough. Although by those standards, porn has a lot more meaning than religion.

[Coreece 190]

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still waiting to hear how your theory holds up when Catholic pastors don't have offspring.

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a number of religions dictate that their most dedicated (pastors, monks, etc) not have sexual relations at all. If as per your hypothesis, the search of meaning contributes to evolutionary success, shouldn't this celibacy (at least heterosexual celibacy) hurt our species chances? Maybe the truth is the other way around - religion hurts the species?

This is an irrelevant issue. I can't personally remember a time when the Catholic Church was searching for any meaning other than power and money.

They are a legalistic apostate christian religion that appeals to ritualistic mysticism:

1 Timothy 4:1-4
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth...

Luke 20:46-47
“Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love respectful greetings in the market places, and chief seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets, who devour widows’ houses, and for appearance’s sake offer long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation.”

(though this passage is speaking of the scibes during biblical times, it's resemblane to modern day Catholicism is uncanny.)

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Marinus 0]

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Marinus is the one who busted in here saying that he's 99.9999% sure life has no meaning and gave absolutely no fomula as to how he came up with that figure other than to say that it is "obvious."

Darling, the only thing you never have to back up with evidence is claims about what you think yourself. Besides that, I never ever said it's obvious that it's 99.99999% sure that life has no purpose.

Since you're my favourite poe/troll, you now may explain to me what purpose the life of a cute orphaned African toddler that dies of AIDS because his/her late mother was raped before he/she was born has.

None seems to be the only reasonable answer.

[popsjumper 2]

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still waiting to hear how your theory holds up when Catholic pastors don't have offspring.

maadmax's theory applies to evolution, not sociological events, right?

Speaking of evolution, mistakes DO happen. My cite is Dropzone.com Speaker's Corner Forum.



All you guys going to hell, let me know you're coming. I'll leave the light on for you.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[jakee 1,274]

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The bottom line is that many times, if allowed, all you will do is make a bunch of attacks and ask a lot of questions to avoid the task of having to define/defend your own position.

And your defence of Lewis' assertion has been... what, exactly?

Seems your avoidance tactics are working perfectly!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,274]

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It can be observed that various structures and processes in life and the universe seem to be connected and share some type of common resemblance

Well yeah, it's all made of the same stuff.

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from the structure of an atom to the structure of the solar system,

The diagram of an atom isn't an atom.

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from the big bang to anemochory seed dispersal or ejaculation etc...

Really?

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I don't see what is so bizzare about thinking that the meaning many people find in their personal life is somehow connected to some type of constant intelligent organizational force beyond our comprehension.

Many people do seem to think that, so bizzare may not be the right word, but it's still a completely unsupportable leap of faith with no evidentiary or logical basis.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreece 190]

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And your defence of Lewis' assertion has been... what, exactly?

I hadn't really formed an opinion of the quote tho I liked where he was going...I posted it to see how it would be preceived.

...I get it, you're not a fan.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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from the big bang to anemochory seed dispersal or ejaculation etc...

Really?

I debated wether or not to leave that whole paragraph out, but I felt that it might stimulate the rather shallow depths of the imagination in a somewhat humorous way.

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I don't see what is so bizzare about thinking that the meaning many people find in their personal life is somehow connected to some type of constant intelligent organizational force beyond our comprehension.

Many people do seem to think that, so bizzare may not be the right word, but it's still a completely unsupportable leap of faith with no evidentiary or logical basis.

Oh yeah because everything we find most important in our lives is soooo perfectly logical...

You'd have to be the most insipid bastard on the planet to stifle the imagination and reduce the human experience to the borish limits of logic and mathematics...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[pirana 0]

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Erroneous behaviors that make inefficient use of available resources don't convey a competitive advantage to the individuals that possess them. Therefore they die out.

Efficiency, stated as you have, is too vague. In other words, quantify how efficient a species needs to be with their resources in order to survive. Perfectly efficient, just kinda efficient, anything better than totally inefficient?

The only thing a species needs to survive is a niche that allows them to leave offspring.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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Searching for meaning has occupied the minds of the majority of people who have lived on this planet, excluding you of course. So therefore finding it must must be a common attribute of those who reproduce successfully.

It occurs to me that searching for meaning is a human invention, and has nothing to do with survival or reproduction. Horseshoe crabs, porcupines, and fruitflies seem to have adapted just fine, reproduce sucessfully, and appear to be in no danger of dying off.

I don't see any connections between attaching meaning to existence and successful survival of a species. If we do ever succeed at making our planet uninhabitable for humans, it will probably be in large part because we have attached superfluous meaning too way too many things.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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Speaking of evolution, mistakes DO happen.

Evolution does not make mistakes. It has no will, and therefore no goals, and can therefore make no mistakes. There is no end goal, or even checkpoints, where evolution is assessed as having gone the "right" direction or made the "right" choices.

However it ends up, and every genetic combination that is produced along the way, is devoid of concious decision. Humans want so badly for everything to mean something, and so anthropomorphize even down to the level of genetic mutation.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

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You'd have to be the most insipid bastard on the planet to stifle the imagination and reduce the human experience to the borish limits of logic and mathematics...

Depends on what is being imagined, or more correctly stated, how the imagination is leading to action. If the imagined stuff is a bunch of neolithic oogie-boogie BS being fabricated into some sort of meaning of life or reason for existince - then yes - it ought be stifled.

Yes, many people find math borish, but many also find it enlightening. Very subjective for someone to label as insipid bastards those seek objective info on how the world works. Do you think all scientists engaged in such work are insipid bastards because they may find different answers to questions your religion already feels it has answered?

BTW - the structure of the atom and the apparent similarities to a solar system - a nice example of intutition (emotive thinking) leading to wholly unfounded conclusions. The 2 are the result of very different forces at work.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[maadmax 0]

Searching for meaning has occupied the minds of the majority of people who have lived on this planet, excluding you of course. So therefore finding it must must be a common attribute of those who reproduce successfully

It occurs to me that searching for meaning is a human invention, and has nothing to do with survival or reproduction. Horseshoe crabs, porcupines, and fruitflies seem to have adapted just fine, reproduce sucessfully, and appear to be in no danger of dying off.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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If there wasn't meaning to life we would never have developed the mental capacity to search for it.

I thought I'd heard them all but that one is new. Congrats!
The meaning of life is simple. We are descendents of a food source for large cats and raptors. That's pretty much it.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Coreece 190]

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Depends on what is being imagined, or more correctly stated, how the imagination is leading to action. If the imagined stuff is...being fabricated into some sort of meaning of life or reason for existince - then yes - it ought be stifled.

Ya...The concept of meaning may suggest the idea of a God...we can't have people running around here with that crap rattling around in their heads.

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Yes, many people find math borish, but many also find it enlightening. Very subjective for someone to label as insipid bastards those seek objective info on how the world works.

oh, ya....spot on. That's exactly what I said.

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Do you think all scientists engaged in such work are insipid bastards because they may find different answers to questions your religion already feels it has answered?

Interesting...could you direct me to the theology department at CERN.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jakee 1,274]

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Oh yeah because everything we find most important in our lives is soooo perfectly logical...

You'd have to be the most insipid bastard on the planet to stifle the imagination and reduce the human experience to the borish limits of logic and mathematics...

Oh hey look, you missed the point in a way that allows you to act like a complete dickhead. Who'da thunk it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreece 190]

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Oh yeah because everything we find most important in our lives is soooo perfectly logical...

You'd have to be the most insipid bastard on the planet to stifle the imagination and reduce the human experience to the borish limits of logic and mathematics...

Oh hey look, you missed the point in a way that allows you to act like a complete dickhead. Who'da thunk it?

Right back atcha' bub...the implication was that no such insipid bastard exists.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...