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QuoteQuote....He doesn't care about anyone else's rights. He doesn't care what abuses are inflicted on anyone else. He only cares about more for himself, regardless of the rights of others.
It appears that you are just now discovering that.
Had I been king, all, and I mean ALL of those bozos attacking with projectiles of any sort would have been in the paddy wagon.
the next time then. we're looking to thousands of arrests the next round - not just a few hundred. do you think this is a game. at the end of all this we've got a great big juicy world war to look forward to. onward christian soldiers...
stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
QuoteQuoteQuote....He doesn't care about anyone else's rights. He doesn't care what abuses are inflicted on anyone else. He only cares about more for himself, regardless of the rights of others.
It appears that you are just now discovering that.
Had I been king, all, and I mean ALL of those bozos attacking with projectiles of any sort would have been in the paddy wagon.
the next time then. we're looking to thousands of arrests the next round - not just a few hundred. do you think this is a game. at the end of all this we've got a great big juicy world war to look forward to. onward christian soldiers...
Which camp are you at? or is this a "spiritual" "we're"?
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
mnealtx 0
QuoteWhich camp are you at? or is this a "spiritual" "we're"?
Matt
He's got a mouse in his pocket.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
QuoteQuoteWhich camp are you at? or is this a "spiritual" "we're"?
Matt
He's got a mouse in his pocket.
Maybe, but if he was actually walking the walk instead of just talking the talk I could respect that.
Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!
So, start being safe, first!!!
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhich camp are you at? or is this a "spiritual" "we're"?
Matt
He's got a mouse in his pocket.
Maybe, but if he was actually walking the walk instead of just talking the talk I could respect that.
Matt
He's an armchair revolutionary. The keyboard is his weapon of choice.
SkyDekker 1,155
QuoteWell, since the shit I heard came from other sworn and certified officers, most folks give that more credence than "this one time on tv" or "that reporter said" references. I haven't seen the written UOF policies for most
You summed it up pretty succintly there.
QuoteThat depends on how you define physical control. Obviously "soft hands" things like guiding with an open hand and use of restraints like cuffs on a non-resisting suspect are lesser force than OC spray.
Yes you stated pretty adamantly that physical control came after OC spray. Maybe the use of restraints and carrying people away would be a better course of action?
QuoteBy the time an incident rises to assault, OC is pointless.
Right, so you would use it in situations where the potential for such is present. Was that the case here, or was this more a text book case of passive resistence?
QuoteRiots at G# events and hockey games would not support that conclusion.
Te fact that you are comparing a bunch of students sitting on a sidewalk with linked arms to riots explains your mindset.
Marinus 0
QuoteWell, since the shit I heard came from other sworn and certified officers, most folks give that more credence than "this one time on tv" or "that reporter said" references. I haven't seen the written UOF policies for most,
the least credence is for the guy that makes claims on the internet without backing them up with sources. Here's the regulations the Dutch police uses for tear gas and pepper spray:
http://www.st-ab.nl/wettennr03/0237-004_Ambtsinstructie_voor_de_politie,_de_Koninklijke_marechausse_en_andere_opsporingsambtenaren.htm
In short it says: "That Kennedy guy is FOS"
Quote§ 2b. Pepperspray
Artikel 12a
1. Het gebruik van pepperspray is slechts geoorloofd:
a. om een persoon aan te houden ten aanzien van wie redelijkerwijs mag worden aangenomen dat hij een voor onmiddellijk gebruik gereed zijnd wapen bij zich heeft en dit tegen een persoon zal gebruiken;
b. om een persoon aan te houden die zich aan aanhouding, voorgeleiding of andere rechtmatige vrijheidsbeneming tracht te onttrekken of heeft onttrokken;
c. ter verdediging tegen of voor het onder controle brengen van agressieve dieren.
2. Pepperspray wordt niet gebruikt tegen:
a. personen die zichtbaar jonger dan 12 of ouder dan 65 jaar zijn;
b. vrouwen die zichtbaar zwanger zijn;
c. personen voor wie dit gebruik als gevolg van een voor de ambtenaar zichtbare ademhalings- of andere ernstige gezondheidsstoornis onevenredig schadelijk kan zijn;
d. groepen personen.
Artikel 12b
De ambtenaar waarschuwt onmiddellijk voordat hij gericht pepperspray tegen een persoon zal gebruiken, met luide stem of op andere niet mis te verstane wijze dat pepperspray gebruikt zal worden, indien niet onverwijld het gegeven bevel wordt opgevolgd. Deze waarschuwing blijft achterwege indien de omstandigheden de waarschuwing redelijkerwijs niet toelaten.
Artikel 12c
Pepperspray wordt tegen een persoon per geval ten hoogste twee maal voor de duur van niet langer dan ongeveer een seconde gebruikt en op een afstand van ten minste een meter.
§ 3. Overige geweldmiddelen
Artikel 13
1. Het gebruik van CS-traangas is slechts geoorloofd:
a. in gesloten ruimten ter aanhouding van een persoon indien redelijkerwijs mag worden aangenomen dat die persoon een voor onmiddellijk gebruik gereed zijnd vuurwapen bij zich heeft en dat tegen personen zal gebruiken dan wel ander levensbedreigend geweld tegen personen zal gebruiken;
b. anders dan in gesloten ruimten ter verspreiding van samenscholingen of volksmenigten die een ernstige en onmiddellijke bedreiging vormen voor de veiligheid van personen of voor zaken.
2. Het gebruik van CS-traangas is slechts geoorloofd in opdracht van de meerdere na vooraf verkregen toestemming van het bevoegd gezag.
3. De meerdere die bevel geeft tot het verspreiden van CS-traangas geeft bij dit bevel aan hoeveel CS-traangasgranaten worden gebruikt.
I think the google translation sucks but is clear enough.
§ 2b. Pepper spray
Article 12a
1. The use of pepper spray is permitted only:
a. a person to hold in respect of whom reasonable grounds for believing that he is ready for immediate use being a weapon with him and will use this against a person;
b. for a person to hold that to arrest, arraignment, or other lawful custody seeks to withdraw or has withdrawn;
c. to defend against or for controlling aggressive animals.
2. Pepper spray is not used to:
a. persons visibly under 12 or over 65 years;
b. women who are visibly pregnant;
c. persons for whom this use due to the officer visible breathing or other serious health disorder may be disproportionate harm;
d. groups of people.
Section 12b
The official warned immediately before pepper spray directed against a person will use a loud voice or other non uncertain terms that pepper spray will be used, if not promptly given the order is followed. This warning will not be provided if the circumstances reasonably permit the warning.
Article 12c
Pepper spray is against a person in each case more than twice for a period of no longer than about one second and is used at a distance of at least one meter.
§ 3. Other means of violence
Article 13
1. The use of CS tear gas is permitted only:
a. in closed rooms to arrest a person if they can be assumed that a person being ready for use firearms with him and will use it against people or other life-threatening violence against the person will use;
b. other than in enclosed spaces for the dissemination of public gatherings or crowds that a serious and immediate threat to the safety of persons or business.
2. The use of CS tear gas is allowed only in the order of several prior consent of the competent authority.
3. The number which controls the distribution of CS tear gas to give the order number to CS tear gas grenades are used.
mnealtx 0
And Dutch police protocols apply to NYPD, how?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
SkyDekker 1,155
QuoteAnd Dutch police protocols apply to NYPD, how?
Because our resident expert claimed all major police agencies work the same way. He heard it himself from a sworn officer, so it has to be true.
Marinus 0
QuoteAnd Dutch police protocols apply to NYPD, how?
It's actually Kennedy who makes the claim that police forces everywhere use the same rules and regulation considering tear gas/pepper spray. If you had read the topic, you would have known that. My source disproves that claim btw. It simply may not be used against non-violent people that are sitting around doing nothing in NL. A cop who does that would be lucky to only loose his job after that.
you worry about your little rights and i'll worry about the big ones for the rest of us...
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding
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